another score book question

[RRB2]

Was watching a scrimmage on Wednesday night. Here is the scenario, no outs, runner on first is stealing on the pitch, the batter bunts, corners come in, both SS and 2nd go to second. runner from 1st sees no one on 3rd so continues to run. At this point the SS tries to go to 3rd also and the 2nd baseman tries to go to 1st, the batter/runner sees this and makes the turn at first and continues to second. This whole time the 3rd baseman is holding the ball with no one to throw it to. At the end of the play the runner from first is now at third and the batter is now at second and the 3rd baseman give the ball to the pitcher without ever making a throw. How would this be scored? If you need any more info feel free to ask.

[video=youtube_share;l3I38n-mClo]http://youtu.be/l3I38n-mClo[/video]

 

[crystlemc]

I believe that is scored a hit, due to no play able to be made. Of course, I am probably wrong... Lol.

 

[snoman76]

I think you are right Crystle. There was no throw so it can't be an error... Pretty sure you cant charge 2B with an error for not covering first... I say its a hit.

 

[daboss]

I'm always wrong but let me try my luck 1 more time; I say a hit and a stolen base for the batter, Stolen base for the runner that was on 1st when the play began. It can't be that simple can it?

I edited my post after seeing a mistake I made. Runner on 1st cannot have stolen 2 bases because there was a bunt made. She advanced to 2nd base on the hit and gets credit for a stolen base when she moved to 3rd so the change is she only gets credit for 1 stolen base not 2.

 

[Louuuuu]

Insert "Which player's Mom is keeping the book?" joke here: ___________________________

 

[crystlemc]

Fielder's choice for the batter assuming if a throw was made to first and would have been an out. Whether or not a throw was made.

Andrew, 1st crashed, and 2nd went to 2, so there was nobody for 3rd to throw it to. I don't think it could be FC because the fielder had no choice... Lol.

 

[RRB2]

I believe it was a hit also going by the last time I asked a score book question some pointed me in the direction of the NFCA, ATEC beyond the basics of scoring fastpitch softball. Under Credit a hit 8. when no one covers the base or a fielder is late in coveting the base. Granted I guessing it should be covering the base and not coveting the base but I guess that depends on how much they love softball. LOL It not dawned on me to consider it a stolen base. I was actually wondering if it could be scored as a double since she made the turn at first. FYI, I do have video of it but it's 6 minutes long and that play only takes about 8 seconds so if I ever figure out how to crop it I will you tube it.

 

[cobb_of_fury]

Fielder's choice for the batter assuming if a throw was made to first and would have been an out. Whether or not a throw was made.

^^^^This is correct - if the play could reasonably be made it Can't be a hit - it can either be an error (errant throw or bad catch) or fielders choice in that the fielder chose to do something else with the ball. So in this case since fielder chose to hold the ball
(probably the best choice with no one covering) - Fielders Choice

 

[cobb_of_fury]

^^^^This is correct - if the play could reasonably be made it Can't be a hit - it can either be an error (errant throw or bad catch) or fielders choice in that the fielder chose to do something else with the ball. So in this case since fielder chose to hold the ball
(probably the best choice with no one covering) - Fielders Choice

I was thinking about this - I am curious what would the ruling be if there were no runner on? - It then couldn't be Fielders choice.

 

[hot corner]

This might be a stupid question. How can it be a FC? I can see if they tried to get an advancing runner it would be a FC but they didn't they where trying to get the batter.

 

[cobb_of_fury]

This might be a stupid question. How can it be a FC? I can see if they tried to get an advancing runner it would be a FC but they didn't they where trying to get the batter.

I would call it FC in the case stated since the player reached 1st Base and no play was made but could have been - I am assuming there should have been an out at 1B. It can't be an error since there was only the mental error (not Chargeable)

I did feel less sure about this answer since I couldn't figure out what the call would be with no one on (see my previous entry)

 

[hot corner]

Unless there an attempt made to get the lead runner/advancing runner it can't be a FC. If the 3rd baseman looks to 2nd and decides to go to 1st I can see a FC. But according tot the OP 3rd baseman came up to make a play on the batter it can't be a FC. If anything wouldn't be a sacrifice?

I know high school sometimes has diffirent rules but in college it would be a hit:

14.3.2.2 When a ground ball is fielded and no throw or alate throw is made, a hit is credited to the batter unlessa throw was not made or was made late be- cause of checking or holding a runner on base

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/Stats_Manuals/Softball/softball easy print stats manual.pdf

 

[cobb_of_fury]

I like SAC - that probably makes more sense in the OP case -
Still not sure about the situation if there is no runner on. I don't want to give a hit for hitting to the fielder - but cant give error in the case stated - although not sure why mental errors aren't charged.

 

[Maxdad]

I believe it was a hit also going by the last time I asked a score book question some pointed me in the direction of the NFCA, ATEC beyond the basics of scoring fastpitch softball. Under Credit a hit 8. when no one covers the base or a fielder is late in coveting the base. Granted I guessing it should be covering the base and not coveting the base but I guess that depends on how much they love softball. LOL It not dawned on me to consider it a stolen base. I was actually wondering if it could be scored as a double since she made the turn at first. FYI, I do have video of it but it's 6 minutes long and that play only takes about 8 seconds so if I ever figure out how to crop it I will you tube it.

Agree....Batter reaches 1B on hit. B/R advances to 2B on stolen base. R1 advanced by B/R to 2B on hit and advanced to 3B on stolen base. This is how I would score it based on my interpretation of the NFCA/ATEC guide. Plus always credit a hit if in doubt and a stolen base can be awarded if the base is uncovered or due to defensive indifference.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

Maxdad is correct.

Batter gets a hit despite any feelings they don't deserve it. The NCAA scoring rule is same as the ATEC rule that RRB2 quoted.

A base hit is credited to a batter when she advances to a base safely:
14.3.11 When no one covers the base or a fielder is late in covering the base.

Every base has to be accounted for.
- R1 reached 2B via the hit.
- Credit R1 and B-R with 1 steal each for the additional bases.

As a general rule, a stolen base is not credited to a runner unless she was in jeopardy of being charged with a caught stealing if she was unsuccessful. A stolen base is credited:

14.14.9 To a base runner who advances a base when the defense leaves a base undefended in mid-play. Statistically, a stolen base shall be charged to the catcher if she was involved in the play and charged to the "defensive team" if the catcher was not involved in the play.
Note: When electronic scoring is used, "defensive team" is entered into the program as a pitcher. In the event a stolen base is charged to the "defensive team" or a run is scored by the base runner placed on second base in the tie breaker, it is recorded against "defensive team" and not any other player.

A.R. 14.14.9.1: Following a base on balls, the batter-runner rounds first base and, noticing the infielders are not defending second base, takes off and safely attains second base. Seeing no fielder, the catcher makes no throw but instead holds onto the ball following the last pitch. RULING: Stolen base is charged to the catcher.

A.R. 14.14.9.2: Following a single to right field, the batter-runner rounds first base and, noticing the infielders are not defending second base, takes off and safely attains second base. Seeing no fielder, the right fielder makes no play but instead walks the ball into the infield. RULING: Stolen base is charged to the "defensive team."

 

[cobb_of_fury]

I guess mine is Pitchers Dad bias.
I will defer to the Book - Grudgingly...

 

[crystlemc]

Ha! I was right!... Lol. Man, that never happens...

 

[SoCal_Dad]

OP demonstrates confusion often arises on defense when faced with a combination of SB and bunt. Knowledgeable coaches use it to their advantage on offense and well-coached teams practice defending against it.

- Bunt and run (i.e. running on the pitch and showing bunt late) can enable a runner to advance 2 bases and also improve the chances of bunting for a hit by drawing F4 away from 1B.

- A fake sac bunt (showing bunt early) can improve the chances of a steal by drawing MIF's away from covering 2B.

 

[coachjwb]

This is absolutely a base hit as SoCal Dad elaborates on above, whether anyone else was on base or not. The only thing that confuses me is the stolen bases ... to me, I would have called it a double if the batter never stopped.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

It's not a double because 14.14.9 specifically spells it out as a stolen base (see full quote, including approved rulings, in previous post) and she didn't reach 2B "solely because of her hit".

14.5.1 A batter is credited with an extra-base hit when she reaches a base beyond first base solely because of her hit. It may be a double, triple or home run.

Don't look a gift horse in the mouth - be thankful for the gift hit.