scoring question and a umpire ruling

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scoring question first- ball hit to outfield and the outfielder comes in first then begins to drift back to the ball and the ball goes over her head. hit or error. Our score keeper gave error to outfielder. Should the ball have been caught yes but went over the outfielders head because the ball was misjudged

rule question-ball hit to third with 1 out and runner on second. third baseman fields ball and throws to first wildly and ball goes out of play. when the third baseman fielded the ball the runner on second was about 10 feet from third base. On the throw to first the runner from second continued her path to third. umpire ruled that the runner from second was only entitled third but the batter was entitled second. I always thought it was the base you are going to plus one. The batter is going to first base so she gets first plus second. the runner on second was going to third so she would get third plus home.

would apprecite insight on these items.

for me on the first one the batter gets a hit on the second the runner from second gets home

thanks

broncho
 
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Umpires anymore are really scary aren't they Bretman ? Just amazing they have terrible rule knowledge.....

As for the hit or error.... I have always been told if the ball does not hit the glove... it is a hit in this instance. But , as well, a great attempt by a fielder (dive or stretching out) is not an error.....

I fault the coach who didn't take the time and take the rule book to the umpire and show him the rule as well. At all times, it is a coaches responsiblity to make sure the umpire rules correctly as well. For the benefit of his team.
 
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On the misjudged fly ball, the following is from the ATEC scoring guide: No error is charged if a fly ball is misjudged and the fielder can't recover in time to field it in good position.

On the overthrow: the baserunners get two bases from when the throw was made. Your runner should have been given home. If she were on first base and hadn't made it to second yet she should have been given third.
 
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Mental errors do not count as physical errors for scoring purposes.

From ATEC:
Guideline: Always ask, "Does the fielder deserve an error?" When answering
always give benefit of the doubt to the hitter.

An error is charged
1. For each miscue/physical mistake, including fielding, wild throws, and missed catches of good throws, which prolongs the life of a batter, the life of a runner or which permits a runner to advance, including a dropped foul fly unless it was dropped intentionally to prevent a runner from advancing.
a - Receiving a throw or fielding a ground ball and not stepping on the base or not touching the player is an error on the fielder.
b - A single error is charged even if more than one base advance is gained as a result of it.
c - A wild throw in the dirt which hits a base or pitching rubber, a runner, an umpire or a fielder is an error on the thrower if a runner(s) advances.
d - An error is charged when an unnecessary throw allows a runner to advance.
e - An error is charged on a throw to a base where more than one fielder could have received a throw and neither did; charge the error to the fielder who should have received it.
f - An error is charged to any fielder committing interference or obstruction where an additional base is gained even if it is a different runner advancing to another base away from where the obstruction
occurred. (i.e., Runners on first and third; fly ball to right, right fielder concedes run and throws to second base for a sure out there, meanwhile the third base runner collides with the pitcher, who is in
the baseline to home. Prior to making the tag for the sure out at second, the shortstop throws home and the catcher tags the third base runner chit. Call obstruction on the pitcher, score the runner and
score an error for the pitcher, since the first base runner advanced safely to second base because of her obstruction.
g - Merely fielding a ball too slowly is not an error.
h - A mental error is not recorded as an error.
i - Do not assume a perfect throw by the catcher in a pick-off or steal attempt. Even if the throw is wild, no error is recorded unless the baserunner advances an additional base as a result of the overthrow.
j - No error is charged on a wild throw in a rundown which allows a runner to return safely to her original base.
k - If a wild throw or dropped catch would not have been in time to cause an out, no error is charged unless an additional base is gained.
l - A wild throw, In an attempt to make a second or third out of a double or triple play is not recorded as an error unless a runner gets an additional base. A dropped ball by the receiver in this situation is credited as an error.
m - No error is charged if an out is made on that immediate play, even if it changes the option of getting a lead out to getting an out behind the lead runner.
n - No error is charged on a misplay if the ball is lost in the sun or lights, windblown, or if the fielder slips and falls, even if contact with the ball is made.
o - No error is charged when a ball is misplayed that was hit so hard more than ordinary effort is needed to play the ball. If the ball goes in the pocket of the glove and then Is dropped, score an error if an out would have been made without the drop, except as noted in q.
[highlight]p - No error is charged if a fly ball is misjudged and the fielder can't recover in time to field it in good position.[/highlight]
q - No error is charged if the fielder drops a ball after running a considerable distance to catch it, or if she fails in her attempt to catch it while running at a high rate of speed.
r - No error is charged on a dropped line drive if the fielder moved more than a few steps to catch it.
s - Throwing to a wrong base is a mental mistake and is not charged as an error.
t - A runner reaching first base safely as a result of a dropped third strike is scored as either a wild pitch or passed ball, not an error, unless the ball is picked up in time that an accurate throw or catch
would have resulted in an out.
u - No error is charged if other runners advance on a dropped third strike when the batter is out. No error is charged when the batter is not out. A passed ball or wild pitch is charged.
V - illegal pitches, wild pitches, passed balls or hit batters are not recorded as errors, even if more than one base is gained from the initial misplay.
w - Consider the distance of the mound from the plate and what the pitcher's primary duty is. If she mishandles a sharply batted ball, do not credit her with an error. You may credit her with an error on a
mishandled slow roller, bunt, or wild throw.
x - If two fielders are running to field a fly ball, one catches it and the second one hits her and causes her to drop it, credit the error to the player who collided with the player who initially caught the ball.
y - Score an error on the thrower when an otherwise good throw hits a runner, umpire or bat.
z - If a baseplayer makes it to within three feet of the base on a force out, and neglects to touch the base when the throw was in time, charge an error on the baseplayer receiving the good throw.
 
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ohioquakerman said:
Umpires anymore are really scary aren't they Bretman ? ?Just amazing they have terrible rule knowledge.....

As for the hit or error.... I have always been told if the ball does not hit the glove... it is a hit in this instance. ?But , as well, ?a great attempt by a fielder (dive or stretching out) is not an error.....

I fault the coach who didn't take the time and take the rule book to the umpire and show him the rule as well. ?[highlight]At all times, it is a coaches responsiblity to make sure the umpire rules correctly as well[/highlight]. ?For the benefit of his team.

Really? I would think, if that were the case, the ump would overturn a call he blew. I have not seen a reversal yet, even with a rulebook in my hand. Some coaches (me sometimes as well) don't bother arguing about bad calls, because the outcome will not change. I will always speak with the umpire to make sure he knows that I think he blew the call, but to define that as my responsibility I can not agree with. It is the governing body's job to make sure that their umpires know the rules, not mine.
 
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ohioquakeman

unfortunately our coach did not press the issue. He usually ask me for the substitution and other rules
 
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Well, Uber... all I can say it is common knowledge.... sadly to say ... that there a few umpires who haven't got a clue and ego stands in their way of becoming a better umpire.

But, yes, it is the coaches responsbility as well and this is why there is a section in the rule book that states: PROTESTS and the rules governing it. That is where the coaches responsibility is.... to know the rules of PROTEST.
 
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For softball, all base awards for balls thrown out of play are determined from the runners position when the throw was made (ie: when the ball left the fielder's hand).

The award when a fielder throws the ball out of play is two bases.

The runner that started out on second should have been awarded home- even if she had stood right on top of second base without moving when the ball was hit!
 
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tribefan24 said:
I actually think it is 2 bases at the time of the pitch. I will check the book.

If you check the baseball rule book, it will say two bases from time of pitch- on the first play by an infielder. For softball, bases are always awarded from the time of the throw.
 
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Two bases from the time of the throw. That's all anyone needs to know.
 
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ohioquakerman said:
Well, Uber... all I can say it is common knowledge.... sadly to say ... that there a few umpires who haven't got a clue and ego stands in their way of becoming a better umpire.

But, yes, it is the coaches responsbility as well and this is why there is a section in the rule book that states: ?PROTESTS and the rules governing it. ?That is where the coaches responsibility is.... to know the rules of PROTEST.

Like I said, I have never had a reversal with a rule book in my hand. I agree that all coaches should know the rules well, but bad umpires are the fault of the association governing them.
 
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Please understand, I agree with you wholeheartedly, Bubba. Absolutely. But, this is why there is a protest rule listed in the book. It is to govern the game fairly and gives a coach the option to do what is right in the rule book.

In calling a protest, an umpire has NO CHOICE, but to stop the game and correct the situation if he is indeed wrong according to the rule book. No choice. A tournament director of fast pitch intervenes or in high school ball... a protest is lodged... it is noted by both scorekeepers and what point in the game the protest is lodged... signed by the umpire.... if he should decide not to get off his little ego trip ... and then the association will take it from there when the protest is forward to the OHSAA or the League President for review.

No umpire in their right mind wants to go under review for being an idiot with an ego. But, sometimes you have to "educate" them and their ego sadly to say.
 
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Uncle bubba you are probably right. ?90% of the calls don't get reversed. ?But if you don't at least protest then when the same things happens again he is aware and maybe makes the correct call then. ?If you say nothing he continues to think he is right and never makes the correct call. ?IMHO :eek:
 
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.)The Ejection Policy for Unsporting Conduct for Coaches was amended with the following additions:
a. Any coach ejected or disqualified from an interscholastic contest for unsporting conduct shall
be suspended from coaching in all contests for the remainder of that day. In addition, the coach
shall be suspended from coaching for all contests at all levels in that sport until two regular sea-
son/tournament contests (one in football) are played at the same level as the ejection or disquali-
fication and shall be fined $100. In addition, the coach shall take the National
Federation of State High School Associations Fundamentals of Coaching Course,
which must be completed within 30 days. (Note that the $100 shall be used to sup-
port the OHSAA?s Respect The Game program).

Not sure if many of you know what is coming for high school coaches next year. This rule is terrible, but when you mention how bad some of the umpires are, this will be held over our head next year.
 
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Be aware: By state adoption, OHSAA baseball and softball does not allow protests.
 
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Thanks Bretman for posting that. You can tell who the high school coaches are when you read some of the responses..
 
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