Scoring question-loss to pitcher

[travelinmom]

College game (if that makes a difference?).
Pitcher 1: Pitches innings 1 and 2, her team is down 6-1.
Pitcher 2: Enters in the 3rd and finishes the game. Team tied in the 5th, loses in the 7th.
Home team assigns loss to Pitcher 1.
Is this correct? Why or why not?

 

[Scooter7]

Correct.

Since the team that changed pitchers had never pulled ahead on the score, the outcome remained as if a pitching change had never occurred.

Had the team pulled ahead in the 5th, and then lost in the 7th...the loss would have gone to Pitcher #2.

 

[coachjwb]

I would say not correct ... once the team tied the game, the starting pitcher should be off the hook ...

I know for sure it's scored that way in MLB ...

Using the same example with slightly different details ... Pitcher 1 is down 1-0 after 3 and leaves due to an injury. Her team ties it 1-1 in the 5th, but they end up getting beat 8-1 ... the loss should go to Pitcher 1??

We need SoCal_Dad or someone to post the actual "rule" ...

 

[backstop09]

The ATEC manual isn't real clear. "Pitching: Winning and Losing Pitcher", Item 8 sort of addresses it but not quite. It states "The starting pitcher receives a loss if she is relieved while her team is behind and her team remains behind, regardless of the number of innings pitched."

Since the OP states that the game became tied, the ATEC manual section doesn't appear to apply.

The NCAA scoring manual addresses it, I think. Section 29, Rule 14.29.7.2 (Losing Pitcher) states "A relief pitcher receives the loss if she is the pitcher of record when the opponent goes ahead and stays ahead for the remainder of the game."

 

[coachjwb]

Thanks backstop ... I interpret both of these manuals the same with regards to this situation ... per ATEC, the starting pitcher's team did NOT remain behind ... and per the NCAA manual, the relief pitcher was pitching when the opponent went ahead and stayed ahead for the remainder of the game.

 

[Maxdad]

Here you go...Per Section 25 of the NCAA scorebook...

"d. The starting pitcher shall be charged with the loss if he is replaced at any time while his
team is behind and remains behind for the remainder of the game. Similarly, any relief
pitcher who is the pitcher of record when the opposing team assumes the lead and never
relinquishes it is charged with the loss."

Note?The pitcher of record shall be the one who is in the game at the time the winning team gains the lead, provided
that the lead never is relinquished, or the one who is charged with the runs by which the opposing team
takes the lead, provided that the lead never is relinquished.

Note?Whenever the score is tied, the game becomes a new contest insofar as the winning and losing pitchers are
concerned.

I agree with Coachjwb. Loss should be charged to pitcher #2, not #1

 

[Scooter7]

Taken from the ASA Official Rule Book under section 11-Scoring:

Section 6. A PITCHER WILL BE CREDITED WITH A LOSS. Regardless of the numberof innings the pitcher has pitched, a pitcher shall be charged with a loss ifreplaced when the pitcher’s team is behind in the score and fails to tie thescore or gain the lead thereafter.

Given that definition, it looks as though Pitcher #2 should be credited with the loss, but it doesn't plainly state that either. This seems to only address a starting ( "if replaced" ) pitchers status. I'm wondering if a simple no-decision applies in the event that the score ties at some point.

It's been about a year and a half since I've leafed through a rulebook, but I seemed to remember some verbiage that stated where a tie at some point was disregarded based on the team being behind, and never technically establishing a lead.

At the end of the day, it's a team sport, so I would think that the spread in the score might also come into play when pinning a win or loss on a pitcher. Based on the above rule, the outcome would be the same, no matter whether the score was 20-1 with a pitching change in the 2nd, or 3-2 with a pitching change in the 6th. In other words, they're largely at the mercy of what their offense can produce.

Here's what ASA has to say about being credited for a win:

Section 5. A PITCHER SHALL BE CREDITED WITH A WIN.

1. When a starting pitcher has pitched at least four innings and the pitcher’steam is not only in the lead when the pitcher is replaced but remains inthe lead for the remainder of the game.
   
2. When a starting pitcher has pitched at least three innings and the pitcher ’steam scores more runs than the opposing team in a game that is termi-nated after five innings of play, or in a game that is terminated after thepitcher’s team has scored more runs in four or more innings than theopposing team has scored in five or more innings and provided that thepitcher’s team is not only in the lead if the pitcher is replaced after threeinnings of pitching but remains in the lead for the remainder of the game.
   

Once again...this doesn't seem to address the status of Pitcher #2 in the original question posed in this thread.

Use the SWAG method ???

 

[coachjwb]

Scooter ... I think it is pretty clear ... the second section you quoted talks about credit for a win so that doesn't apply to the original poster's question. The first section though does ... while it doesn't say that the Pitcher 2 gets the loss, it does say that Pitcher 1 doesn't since the game was subsequently tied. While your sections were from the ASA rulebook, and the question was NCAA, I might be willing to make a bet that this rule is the same in all levels of baseball and softball.