Pitching and Pitchers Discussion some questions on quality pitching

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I am in my second year as a HS varsity coach, and I am still trying to figure out what I should realistically expect. ?Please help me set some good goals for my pitchers, and fill me in for a college bound pitcher, better than average, average, etc.

1. ?How fast should a pitcher be? ?I realize that a pitcher needs to have at least an off-speed pitch to counter that.

2. ?I would like to talk to my pitchers about 3 ball counts. ?How many 3 ball counts should be reasonable for a game.

3. ?How many non-intentional walks should be reasonable?

Thanks,
Mark

 

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As to speed, for a H.S. team, a pitcher with 53 mph speed is just fine as long as she has good control and multiple breaking pitches. ?53 mph fastballs that don't move are toast, but then so are 59 mph fastballs once the hitter gets timed-up. ?Again, if your pitchers are just starting out, the 53 mph standard may be unrealistic. ?Stress the breaking stuff for them if they show any talent for those. ?As for college ball, 56 mph and control over breaking pitches and riseballs should put the young lady on Division III and MAYBE Division II teams. ?Elite Division I teams are looking for much more speed along with control, but if I'm not mistaken Ritter at Michigan is not lightning fast in terms of speed and a few years ago Brooke Mitchell took her team from Louisiana pretty far into the college world series with an average speed of 56 mph if memory serves me correctly.

Regarding walks given up by a pitcher, we like to talk with our DD about WHIP: ?walks plus hits per inning. ?In baseball, a WHIP average of 1.15 is extremely good. ?I personally think that you need a slightly lower WHIP to be extremely good in softball, given the shorter base paths and the availability of small ball. ?But the ideal of a WHIP of 1 or below is just that: ?an ideal. ?If you have new pitchers, I'd just introduce them to the concept and set a more realistic goal. ?The concept is obvious: ?if you're going to give up one walk in an inning, you'd better not be giving ups hits as well, and vice versa. ?

A WHIP of 1 in any particular inning is very good: ?absent an error by the defense, a single walk or hit is unlikely to score a run (though it obviously is more than possible if you give up an extra base hit to the lead-off).

You can have those games where your WHIP average is 1 or less and the opposing team strung together all its hits and walks in one or two innings, but for the most part an average WHIP of 1 or lower should reflect a ton of wins for the pitcher's team.

As for the 3 ball count question, I'd love to hear the comments of others. ?

PS: ?TBM's tricky program forbids me from correctly spelling Brooke Mitch#ll's name.

 

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I know of two pitchers who have face a 3-0 count in games. One does this regularly and usually gets herself out of the jam by coming back on a 3-0 with three strikes. However, there are enough times where it gets her in trouble as she tends to do this with the first batter of the inning.

The other pitcher does not get into a 3-0 situation very often, but she almost never walks a batter. She has the control to place the ball where she wants, and there has not been much of a problem with the pitch count.

If a pitcher regularly pitches lots of balls, it seems like she establishes "a reputation." It is possible that compared to a pitcher that consistently throws strikes, close pitches could be called balls more often.

 

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Witz,

What are we talking about in terms of a HS pitcher? Reason I ask is there is a big difference in what you can expect from a Senior Vs a Freshman in most cases. Mind you not all. I have seen some excellent freshmen pitchers down here in Texas. There are ALWAYS exceptions to the norm.

On average you senior should be at or around 60 on a consistent basis. Subtract a mile or two as you go down in grades. They need good movement and they need to understand the game and be smart about pitching.

Example, if you have an 0-2 count on a hitter the ball should not be anywhere near the strike zone on the 3rd pitch. Its a waste pitch to try and get a batter to swing. My favorite pitch in this situation is a drop in the dirt. Outside. A lot of coaches like to throw the change in this situation. I teach my girls to look for the change on an 0-2 count. Every time.

I cannot tell you how many times I have seen a hit on an 0-2 count. Watched my daughter who is a Senior give up a triple with bases loaded last Friday on an 0-2 count. Down 3 runs in the first. Set the tone for the entire game and our team ended up getting spanked.

My daughter knows better but it was a pressure situation and she wasnt thinking about the count. She was worried about the runners. It happens to all of them and every level. The worst part was it was the team that trailed them by a game in district so now they are tied and they beat us at our house. We will probably have to return the favor to win district.


Want to have a pitchers conference. Throw a pitch that can be hit on an 0-2 count. We will talk and the pitcher wont like the conversation.

If a pitcher has good control of their pitches then you wont see 3-0 counts too often BUT if its the #3 or 4 hitter and your pitcher is doing everything she can to prevent a big hit to those players, then it may be a good thing to give up a walk now and then. My daughter has done this on more than one occasion already this season because its better to lose the battle and win the war.

There are six basic pitches a pitcher can have.

Screwball - Riseball - Curve - Changeup - Drop Curve - Drop.

Notice you dont see fastball in this list? In HS or select I wouldnt want my pitchers feeding fastballs that dont move to hitters. Why? Because hitters practice off of hitting machines for hours that throw the exact same pitch. A four or 2 seam fastball gets nailed if your pitcher misses her spot.

It takes a few years of development for them to understand that its not about throwing strikes all the time. Its about deception. Fooling batters. Changing speeds and moving the ball.

What I like even less is having a full count. Then the batter knows the pitch has to be in the zone.

Hope this helps.

Elliott.

 

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Here are some more numbers. These were taken last year from Club K's satellite locations @ Paducah, KY Huntsville, AL Chatanooga, TN and Des Moines, IA.

Age High Average

7 29 23

8 38 31

9 43 37

10 50 42

11 52 44

12 55 49

13 55 50

14 59 52

15 59 53

16 65 56

17 63 58

18 63 57

 

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Do any of you look at pitches per batter, or per inning? ?I would assume that pitch counts overall aren't nearly as important as they are in baseball. ?I would be interested in finding out your thoughts on ?this as well.

Also, what would be a good percentage of # of strikes versus total pitches. ?Granted, an umpire's strike zone my affect this, but overall I hope that there is a number I can use.

 

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Hi coach. ?Let me tell you what happened to one of my 14-year-old students in her first games as a freshman pitcher.

Shortly before the season started her coach informed her he did not want her to throw ANYTHING but fastballs and change ups. ?He was adamate about this and would give no reason why she could not use any of her movement pitches.

So, she was taught how to throw her fastball 5 different ways utilizing 3 different styles and a few tactics. ?She was also taught how to throw a change up 4 different ways using 3 different styles and a few pitching tactics.

ALL of these looked like completely different pitches to the batters. ?We did this to take the timing away from the hitters when her coach's pitch selection was extremely limited.

She won her first two games. ?14 K's and 11 K's.

She has excellent speed but is smart enough to know that changes of speed kills their timing and she changed speeds with every pitch. ?With just a little more experience doing this, she will destroy the timing of every line up she faces.

Don't simply limit your pitcher/s to top speed and a chnge up, mix those speeds up constantly amnd watch what effect it has on the batters.

Hal
http://www.smartsoftball.net/advice.htm

 

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Welcome Hal,

For those of you who dont know smartsoftball. His name is Hal Skinner. Hal is one of the best pitching coaches I have had the opportunity to have discussion with on the internet. I have also purchased his book. It is a great guide to teaching solid pitching mechanics and the mental side of pitching to your daughter or students if you are an instructor. Well worth the price and a great read if you really want to help a player learn to pitch.

FYI - I do not endorse many things but Hals book is a good one and any advise he provides is always on the mark for a pitcher. His comments about changing speeds could not be more correct. Hal knows what he is talking about when it comes to pitching.


Elliott.

 

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Elliot, ?those pitching speeds from from Club K's satellite locations, are those basically travel team speeds, or pitchers in general?

By the way, I put the book on my birthday list. ?If I don't get it for that I'll order it myself. ?(this Sunday)

Hal, everything you mentioned about different styles and ways for throwing the fastball, are they in your book, and can you throw a few hints my way before I get it?

Mark

 

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Mark,

They were based on speeds taken at pitching lessons for those player age groups. So I would say they are an average in general and are close to what I see as an instructor.

I should not speak for Hal but yes, a lot of what he talked about in his post is in his book. Hal is big on changing speeds and different delivery methods to distract hitters timing.

So am I.

Elliott.

 

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Just a couple of thoughts on the 3 ball situation. When my daughter is pitching in high school ball I don't like to see her go to a 3 ball count on most hitters. The umpires (at least in our area) are not used to seeing as many breaking balls so you're not sure that you'll get a call and the hitters generally aren't as good as in the summer. However, in the summer I don't have a problem with her going to 3 balls. This just means that she is nibbling the corners. We talk about using the count and not giving in to hitters. In summer ball, where most kids are experienced hitters, you need to keep them off balance and never throw the pitch that they want to see.