Hitting and Hitters Discussion Swing at the first pitch or go deep in the count?

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Personally I have mixed feelings on this subject. With younger girls I would tend to say if the ball is there then hit it.

With older players I like them to work into the count and force a pitcher to throw a good pitch. If they let the first one go by then I am not too concerned about it.

For players that go into a slump I would also tell them to swing at the first pitch because it may be the best one you see.

Your thoughts all.

Elliott.

 

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Re: Swing at the first pitch or go deep in the cou

If the first pitch may be the best pitch they see for a player in a slump, wouldn't that also likely be the case for everyone else?

I want younger players to aggressively swing the bat. The older they get, the more they need to look for the right pitch early in the count. Later in the count swinging at strikes.

 

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Re: Swing at the first pitch or go deep in the cou

Dogs,

I cant argue that point. Down here in Tx there is another factor I consider and that is weather. During a normal tournament the temps are anywhere from 80 - 100 degrees. Sometimes even hotter.

The more pitches the pitcher throws the more it energy she has to exert and over the course of a game she will slow down and loose movement. Which in some cases helps the team get some better contact on the ball.

That is another reason I like my hitters to go deep in the count.

Merry Christmas. How about turning the heat up for me next week? Heading your way to visit family.

Elliott.

 

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Re: Swing at the first pitch or go deep in the cou

Successful hitting involves three key elements

1. mechanics
2. timing
3. guessing

The guessing comes from scounting pitchers tendencies and knowing what pitch to look for and when to look for it. The best way to say it is knowing when it is the "hitters count"
a 3-1 pitch count a 2-0 pitch count is when the odds are in the hitters favor and exploiting that could lead to a very successful at bat. Nothing wrong at swinging at the first pitch if scouting reveals to expect a great pitch to hit.

 

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I think Daryl and Dogs both make good points. Given those, I'm happy to have my hitters ready to go on the first pitch. The only exception would be that I don't want our hitters to bail out a pitcher who is struggling. Daryl's post alluded to this with his point on guessing. It's a bad guess to think that a girl who hasn't thrown a strike in 6 pitches is going to put one in there on the next pitch, yet we see all the time girls hacking away at a first pitch when a pitcher hasn't found the strike zone in several pitches. Otherwise, I believe at high school and most travel ball levels, the pitcher is trying to get ahead on the first pitch and it's time to be guessing strike and therefore, hacking away.

 

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I tell my DD and other girls I coach to be patient at the plate and look for their pitch. If you spend alot of time practicing your hitting then you should be aware of which pitch and the location in which it is thrown, that is the pitch you drive the best.
Early in the count, that is the pitch that I want my hitter looking for. As they fall behind, their own strike zone should open up and they should be more aggressive. The flip side of that is, if your ahead, then your own strike zone should shrink, forcing you to become more patient, once again looking for your pitch.
In most cases, the best pitch your going to see, is that first pitch. Most pitchers want to get ahead in the count, so its going to be close to the strike zone. One thing that drives me CRAZY as a coach, is a batter that takes that first pitch right down the middle of the plate, then looks down at me and shakes her head like, "Yep, that was a pretty good pitch" then ends of striking out looking or swing at a junk pitch!
Although I agree that the first pitch is usually the best pitch you will see, I personally think a 3-2 count is really the best count to hit on. If you as a batter can handle the pressure of hitting with 2 strikes, your probably going to see a really good pitch. No pitcher wants to give up a walk, and most are looking for the strikeout, so look for a really good pitch with a full count.

 

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Re: Swing at the first pitch or go deep in the cou

I may be wrong but I doubt it, why would any player or coach want
to let a good pitch go by unless they are looking for a walk,let the first strike go by and foul the next one off and then you are in trouble,then the pitcher has four pitches she can throw all around the plate to get you to swing at, the umpires are only human,what if the umpire misses a pitch that is clearly a ball and calls it a strike, strike three one wasted at bat.

 

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Re: Swing at the first pitch or go deep in the cou

So can we say that a coach who constantly tells ALL his players to NEVER swing at that first pitch does not know what the heck he is talking about? ;D

I can only hope our high school coaches read this thread! lol

I say that first pitch may be the best you will get in an at bat, so why not take advantage of it?

I know a coach that last year sat his players if they swung at the first pitch.

And is baseball different, because my son's EX travel ball coach and asistant always told them to never swing at the first pitch?

 

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I'd say if a coach is telling his players to literally never swing at a first pitch, that's a pretty tough pill to swallow. That wouldn't take long to figure out from an opposing team, at which point a fastball down the middle will be the order of the day on the first pitch.

 

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Re: Swing at the first pitch or go deep in the cou

I AGREE WITH DOGS, BUT I DON'T THINK AGE MATTERS. I THINK ALL AGE GIRLS NEED TO BE TAUGHT TO BE AGGRESSIVE AT THE PLATE. IF THE FIRST PITCH IS A STRIKE I THINK AN AGGRESSIVE BATTER WILL TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT. I ALSO BELIEVE MOST PITCHERS/COACHES THINK THE FIRST PITCH STRIKE IS THEIR OPPORTUNITY TO GET AHEAD IN THE COUNT RIGHT AWAY AND AGREE THAT THAT SEEMS TO BE THE CASE WITH MOST BATTERS. THIS IS A VERY INTERESTING TOPIC AND I'M VERY CURIOUS AT COACHES OPINIONS ON THIS. MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL! 8)

 

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Re: Swing at the first pitch or go deep in the cou

Depends on the hitter as well. Some hitters are adept at the batter/pitcher wrestling match - working and creating an edge with a pitcher, great plate presence. Most others, just need to get the pitch they can handle whenever it comes and apply their swing.

Speaking personally, a male who played a lot of baseball, and also 4 years of men's league & tournament fast pitch, I was a MUCH better hitter (esp V good pitching) when I thought aggressively and went up to "mash" the first pitch I saw. Mind and body were in harmony to cause great harm to the pitcher's karma, plus, often times the first pitch is grooved. I was moved to leadoff at times and started thinking too much about being scrappy and getting on base any way possible, including getting much more selective (i.e. taking walks) and my power and average went down, until I went back to thinking aggressivey ("see da ball, hit da ball" / Tony Perez).

Unless there is some other strategy involved (weather, a lead with a time limit, tendencies of a a specific hitter/pitcher, etc) - swing away, set the tone, and signal the pitcher and your mates that this is the way its gonna be today.

 

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Re: Swing at the first pitch or go deep in the cou

Very well said Pickledad!!

Ifubuildit,
While your up here next week, feel free to use the facilities whenever you want. Coach West said your DD likes to throw every day. Shouldn't be a problem, just let me know when your getting in and we'll work out a schedule.
Have a Merry Christmas and looking forward to talking with you.
Coach Yeater

 

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Re: Swing at the first pitch or go deep in the cou

Lots of great observations about using the count. I like an approach that has the hitter treating the first pitch like any other pitch in which she is ahead in the count. In other words look for and expect the pitch you want to hit. Sit on that pitch.

The real trick is to get the hitter to believe and really understand her at-bat beyond her intellectual grasp of what she should be looking for. Knowing about it and doing it successfully is the long bridge to cross. It takes an awful lot of at-bats before the mind and body can use and leverage the advantage of hitting ahead in the count, learning to identify and drive the pitch you want.

The ideal result looks like a blend of confidence, focus, belief, predatory instincts and muscle memory. You know it in a hitter when you see it. These hitters are the ones who really feel like they, not the pitcher, are the aggressors and they really lock in when they get the odds in their favor.

Even in hitters with otherwise excellent ability you also see when they don't have this quality.

I'd love to hear suggestions on how to coach hitters to become the first type of hitter.

It seems to me that young hitters would be more prone to learning how to hit their pitch if they were aggressive on the 0-0 pitch.

 

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Re: Swing at the first pitch or go deep in the cou

The key to success at the plate should all happen away from the plate. As I mentioned before mechanics, Timing play an important part, but Ted Williams felt the most important part was guessing and he worked hard before his at bat to give himself better odds when guessing.

If in scouting or watching a pitcher you can pick up significant information in helping a batter to gain an advantage. I once had a pitcher tell me during tryouts that she had six pitches. After scouting her, she could only throw one of those pitches for a strike and that was her fast ball. Her rise ball was high at the plate, her drop almost hit the plate, her curve got no where near the plate, you get the picture. Once my players new what pitches she could throw for strikes, that is what they looked for. Coaches, usually the pitchers dad, would often have them throw their fast ball on the first pitch, since all the others would lead to a pitch count in the batters favor. Our hitters would know this and go after that first pitch. We played a team where the coach always had her lead with her curve, another with a rise ball. It didn't take long for our hitters to learn what pitches to look for and when to look for them. In those instances our batters worked the count deeper and into their favor. We often had the pitch count in our favor and worked to succeed with it.

The key is successful scouting and as pickledad said having your mind and body in harmony to smash the ball when you know your guessing right.

 

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Re: Swing at the first pitch or go deep in the cou

Here is a chart that I obtained on another web page. Granted its kind of old and its MLB but it gives you an idea of what we are discussing. Based on this do your ideas change now?

Very good comments and MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE. Hope you have a great day.


COUNT Major League Baseball 2002
Balls-Strikes Batting AVG.
3-0: .359
3-1: .357
2-0: .339
2-1: .338
0-0: .335
1-0: .324
1-1: .320
0-1: .309
3-2: .226
2-2: .189
1-2: .172
0-2: .159

 

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Re: Swing at the first pitch or go deep in the cou

I believe age and maturity of the batter has a lot to do with it. In the younger age groups, I see that coach/dad calling the pitches and the catcher being more of a pitch recepticle - and you have a better chance of that first pitch being fat, in an attempt to get ahead in the count. At the older ages, the catcher is either calling the game, or a big part of it. We train ours to look for flaws in the batter's stance and presentation and then pitch to them. Likewise, we train our girls (ok, at least try to) to be balanced and controlled at the plate. Every pitch is fair game.

Next to letting a called third strike go by, the next most frustrating thing to me is for her to let one go by, then turn nod her head to me that it was a strike.

 

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the chart by ifubuildit is interesting but my sons pitching coach gave him a book that showed the batting aveage for the 0-0 count at below .100. ? This book analyzed 40,000 major league and college at bats over several years. ? i will have to look it up again to get the details but basically it said that if you hit the first pitch you are out. ?of course there are exceptions to every rule. ?i have done my own survey at my dd tournaments and found this to be true. ? game situations can dictate wether a batter hit the first pitch or not. ?if your down a couple of runs and ground out on pitch one you just helped the pitcher get through an inning and preserve strength for a later inning. ? the more pitches you see the better you are set for late inning at bats. ? but i guess if you hit the first pitch out of the park early you don't need the late inning at bats.

 

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I definately beleive that preaching patients will make them a better hitters at all levels. The player has to learn where her hitting zone is and get her pitch rather than hitting the pitchers pitch. You still have to be agressive as a hitter when you see your pitch but the further you force the pitcher into the count, the more likely the batter is to see theres. The coach should dictate this tempo to the hitters in different situations. If the pitchers is mowing batters down with a fastball and throwing all strikes, then you have to get your swings in and be more agressive with bunts and baserunning.

 

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We used a graduated picture frame concept. With no strikes there is a very small (5x7 frame), with 1 strike it goes to an (8x10) with 2 strikes up to (11x17). If a pitcher throws a meatball, hammer it regardless of count because it will probably be the last good pitch you see.

Our team distribution was probably similar to ifubuildit's table, but we did have 2 girls whose averages went up quite a bit when they were down in the count with 2 strikes, just made them focus more.

 

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great topic, from personal experience my avg and on base pct really dropped with contact on first pitch. lots of pop outs. i've seen it with my son, and now i see it with my daughter. maybe its just me but thats what i've noticed.