Taking the first pitch?

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I couldn't agree more, boulder. Very well put.

 

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From theoleballgame.com here are the batting averages based on count from 07, 08, 09 of all MLB players.

First Pitch .344, 337, .338 Actually all counts with no strikes or one strike mlb hitters hit over .300
0-2 .164, .160, 156
1-2 .170, .179, .171
2-2 .191, .194, .189
3-2 .230, .227, .233

The stats pretty much say a hitter should find a pitch they can drive before getting to two strikes. Once you have two strikes the pitcher is in control of the at bat.

 

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I have seen way to many college hitters ground out or pop up on swinging at the first pitch in the first inning. I have also seen a ton this year of our 1,2,3 going down on 5 or 6 pitches. When you tell a batter to be aggressive for the sake of being aggressive on the first pitch they see that blue thinks is a strike you are letting the pitcher control their hitting zone. Tell me how many runs do you think you will score seeing 5 to 7 pitches an inning?

Tim

 

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My daughter is not a speed player. Bats 3rd. Last two games she has hit two homeruns on first pitch fastball. High school ball. Enough said.

 

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First inning first pitch? If so that is fantastic.

 

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......

The stats pretty much say a hitter should find a pitch they can drive before getting to two strikes. Once you have two strikes the pitcher is in control of the at bat.

I don't necessarily agree with that statement. I saw one of Lebanon HS prominent hitters (Hutchison) have 2 strikes against her and then pitch after pitch she kept fouling them off, waiting for the pitcher to bring one back in to her. She did and a hard line drive was hit back to right field. The better hitters can still work the pitcher even with 2 strikes on them.

 

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I don't necessarily agree with that statement. I saw one of Lebanon HS prominent hitters (Hutchison) have 2 strikes against her and then pitch after pitch she kept fouling them off, waiting for the pitcher to bring one back in to her. She did and a hard line drive was hit back to right field. The better hitters can still work the pitcher even with 2 strikes on them.

It's a law of averages Andrew and not a definite I'll be glad to continue this talk. Are you going to be at the games Friday night? I'll borrow money from the wife and buy you a coke.

 

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It's a law of averages Andrew and not a definite I'll be glad to continue this talk. Are you going to be at the games Friday night? I'll borrow money from the wife and buy you a coke.

Lol. Yeah I will be there.

 

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Major league baseball stats have very little to do with travel, high school or college softball.

 

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... Its about being selective on location and then aggressive on what you can drive. Not just hit but drive.

The pitcher catcher and umpire work out of a strike zone, the batter works out of a hitting zone. Jut because blue called it a strike dosent mean its something the batter can drive. If you have never seen a pitcher before and you swing at the first pitch and ground out what have you accomplished. If you go thru the line up 3 or so times and you see she has a history of trying to get up in the count by coming across the middle of the plate then your second time at bat by all means punish her by driving it.
A hitter should punish her the first time if it's a pitch that can be driven...

I like long at bats, I like watching my hitters go deep in the count. I like wearing pitchers out and punishing them if they make a mistake. Hitting is a game within a game. Its about adjustments.

Why do most power hitters go deep in a count while most contact hitters do not? The reason is A power hitter is looking for that one pitch to drive. A contact hitter is looking to put the ball in play. I teach my kids to swing for power below 2 strikes and to swing for contact after. Attacking any thing close at 2 strikes. ...

I agree with Tim's approach, although it applies to contact hitters too. They should also be looking for a pitch they can hit solidly even though they aren't swinging for the fences.

A "pitch they can drive" is going to vary by the pitcher and the hitter. Good pitchers at upper levels will very rarely throw a cookie, so teams need to figure out what they're throwing for strikes and each hitter which one(s) they're going to have the best chance of handling. Every hitter needs to prepare for their first at bat as soon as they see the pitcher warming up.

Added: Hitters waiting for a cookie will usually be hitting with 2 strikes on them...

 

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My daughter is not a speed player. Bats 3rd. Last two games she has hit two homeruns on first pitch fastball. High school ball. Enough said.

Congrats to your daughter for the long ball but like you said, High School Ball, where getting a fastball down the middle is as common as a walk in rec ball. Enough said.

 

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Congrats to your daughter for the long ball but like you said, High School Ball, where getting a fastball down the middle is as common as a walk in rec ball. Enough said.

:lmao:

 

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You have to remember - just like a batter is looking for "their" pitch to drive, the pitcher is also throwing pitches to bait the batter dictated by the batting order, count and inning. Pitchers and their coaches know that batters have a tendency to take more pitches their first at-bat, and can be a little more aggressive getting called strikes. Any smart pitcher (and coach) should know that by the second time through the order, or about the third inning, the strategy drastically changes. The good hitters have seen what the pitcher has to offer, and has picked up on habits, patterns and tendencies. Consequently, the pitches SHOULD be "less inviting" to the meat of the order - or the pitcher will typically get shelled - which is common in high school.

Just like pitchers have patterns that can be detected over time, so do hitters. Colleges book every single pitch of every at-bat, so opposing batters have a history of tendencies. A smart coach will call pitches based on that history, and a good pitcher will execute that plan with accuracy.

Pitchers (actually coaches who call pitches) who ignore Tim's concept of "hitters having a hitting zone" and "umpires having a strike zone" will fail in grand fashion. IMO, the strike zone is way overrated, because great hitters are trained to hit pitches within THEIR zone - not necessarily the strike zone. Conversely, great pitchers SHOULD KNOW THAT, and should pitch with that in mind.

S0 - taking the first pitch? Again, it depends on the level of the game, and the skill of the batter/pitcher. A typical HS 6 - 9 batter is usually a gift first strike for a decent pitcher. But don't count on that at the college level.

Also, consider that a strike-out in early innings is not such a bad thing. Consider that the batter has now seen the pitches offered, and can develop a plan next at-bat. The "duh" factor is the team with the most runs wins. It doesn't matter if those runs are scored in the first inning or last. A great batter/pitcher duel is a thing of beauty, and watching the smart ones go head to head is what makes the game exciting.

 

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I have always been a huge proponent of Quality at Bats (QAB) as this will lead to On Base Percentage being high and to score more runs then the opposition. Quality at bats are measured by how well a batter controls the strike zone and timing of her swings. When a hitter does these two things well, she has produced a Quality at Bat. She may Strike out, ground out, or fly out and still produce a quality at bat. None of these two things detract from the fact the batter did the quality things she wanted to do. She controlled the hitting zone by making the pitcher throw strikes, and she focused on the ball well enough to take aggressive, well timed swings. The more often she produces quality at bats the higher the probability that she will reach base safely. Nothing drives me more nuts when my offense gives a pitcher a five or six pitch inning.

 

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You have to remember - just like a batter is looking for "their" pitch to drive, the pitcher is also throwing pitches to bait the batter dictated by the batting order, count and inning. Pitchers and their coaches know that batters have a tendency to take more pitches their first at-bat, and can be a little more aggressive getting called strikes. Any smart pitcher (and coach) should know that by the second time through the order, or about the third inning, the strategy drastically changes. The good hitters have seen what the pitcher has to offer, and has picked up on habits, patterns and tendencies. Consequently, the pitches SHOULD be "less inviting" to the meat of the order - or the pitcher will typically get shelled - which is common in high school.

Just like pitchers have patterns that can be detected over time, so do hitters. Colleges book every single pitch of every at-bat, so opposing batters have a history of tendencies. A smart coach will call pitches based on that history, and a good pitcher will execute that plan with accuracy.

Pitchers (actually coaches who call pitches) who ignore Tim's concept of "hitters having a hitting zone" and "umpires having a strike zone" will fail in grand fashion. IMO, the strike zone is way overrated, because great hitters are trained to hit pitches within THEIR zone - not necessarily the strike zone. Conversely, great pitchers SHOULD KNOW THAT, and should pitch with that in mind.

S0 - taking the first pitch? Again, it depends on the level of the game, and the skill of the batter/pitcher. A typical HS 6 - 9 batter is usually a gift first strike for a decent pitcher. But don't count on that at the college level.

Also, consider that a strike-out in early innings is not such a bad thing. Consider that the batter has now seen the pitches offered, and can develop a plan next at-bat. The "duh" factor is the team with the most runs wins. It doesn't matter if those runs are scored in the first inning or last. A great batter/pitcher duel is a thing of beauty, and watching the smart ones go head to head is what makes the game exciting.

The man is a Marvel.... Why is he not president

 

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Agree with 1st pitch is usually the best. I tell my girls you get 3 strikes use them all if you want. If you dont like the first 2 that may get called then be prepared to battle for the 3rd. Im a 1st pitch swinging coach unless the pitcher is struggling.

 

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Agree with Sammy and Bouldersdad. When I coached TB, MS and HS I told my hitters this: the only time I would encourage you to take the first pitch is the first at bat facing the pitcher, whether at the start of the game or if a pitching change was made. As another poster said, use it for timing. I know the hitter is doing this in the on deck circle but it is different when you are in the batters box. Love Bouldersdad philosophy of taking the pitch counts deep. As Hitter said, seeing pitches builds your hitting DNA or data bank. Conversely now that I don't coach teams but instruct pitchers, I tell them "get a first pitch strike". I believe too many girls are taking that first pitch so why not take advantage? I really stress a quality first pitch that hits a spot we want. If my pitcher starts the count 0-1 instead of 1-0, I think that is huge. The next big count where the advantage tips to either the hitter or pitcher is the 1-1 count. I seemed to remember reading a stat that said there is a huge difference in batting average between a 1-2 count and a 2-1 count. As Boulderdad said the pitcher / hitter is a game within a game, both are trying to read and figure out the other tendencies. Good topic.

 

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I have 2 DDs that play pretty high level ball and they are complete opposites.

One is a power hitter and steps in the box looking to swing. Rarely strikes out but rarely walks. She is in there to hit the ball from the word go. And the strike zone means nothing to her to be honest. If she likes it and it is in her zone she is hammering. Love watching her hit.

The other is more a line drive, gap hitter. Again very few strikes outs BUT she always looks at the first pitch strike. It is madness. It makes me so crazy that I almost can not watch her hit. She is 12U and my older DD keeps telling her that the best pitch to hit is often the first. That good pitchers like to get a strike early and then nibble the rest of the way. She is a very good hitter but this habit makes me insane. Nothing can seem to change this. And her coaches the last 2 years have been on her to change but she doesn't. And no she never gives me a good reason. She just says she does not like swinging at the first pitch.

 

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I don't necessarily agree with that statement. I saw one of Lebanon HS prominent hitters (Hutchison) have 2 strikes against her and then pitch after pitch she kept fouling them off, waiting for the pitcher to bring one back in to her. She did and a hard line drive was hit back to right field. The better hitters can still work the pitcher even with 2 strikes on them.

She definitely is not a typical hitter. Wendell does a great job teaching his hitters zones, and working the pitcher to make a mistake.

 

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I have always been a huge proponent of Quality at Bats (QAB) as this will lead to On Base Percentage being high and to score more runs then the opposition. Quality at bats are measured by how well a batter controls the strike zone and timing of her swings. When a hitter does these two things well, she has produced a Quality at Bat. She may Strike out, ground out, or fly out and still produce a quality at bat. None of these two things detract from the fact the batter did the quality things she wanted to do. She controlled the hitting zone by making the pitcher throw strikes, and she focused on the ball well enough to take aggressive, well timed swings. The more often she produces quality at bats the higher the probability that she will reach base safely. Nothing drives me more nuts when my offense gives a pitcher a five or six pitch inning.

One of my biggest peeves in college ball has been that at the end of the season at their exit interview they go over and are judged on their QAB by the coach. The same guy that is judging them on QAB,s is the one yelling swing at the first pitch. Kind of danged if you do danged if you dont.

Tim