Hitting and Hitters Discussion tee-work vs. machine for mechanics

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I would like to know what most coaches feel is more effective for developing swing mechanics: doing various drills along with hitting off a tee or hitting off the pitching machine. I've been having a debate among a few friends and would like to know what others feel. I feel that more time should be spent with various drills and working off the tee than hitting off a machine. I do think the pitching machine should be incorporated into the hitting development but more emphasis on tee/drill work. Please share your insight!

 

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I think that they need both. Most important to me is to work off of the tee to work on the mechanics. The tee time helps build muscle memory that they will carry to the machine. On the teee you can break the swing into segments. Then you can work on the parts that need help. JMHO.

 

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Most of the college coaches I've talked to all prefer tee work and front toss to machine for mechanics. In my practices I combine them - tee and toss for mechanics, machine to teach adjustment for speed and movement.

 

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Both have their place, and it should be a progression. You work on fixing the mechanics of the swing, drills etc working on parts of the swing. Successful hitting has a lot to do with rythm and being able to bring the parts back together into a complete swing. Then move to tee work, soft tossing drill (personal preference is tossing from the front), then machine that provides a consistent pitch, machine that is not consistent, and finally live pitching. Most athletes will find it difficult to make corrections in their swing mechanics with a pitching machine. Corrections to mechanics take time to get used to and become natural, and most athletes will constantly try to hit the ball even if that means sacrificing good mechanics.

 

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I always wonder why kids aren't better at hitting riseballs since they are essentially practicing hitting them when they hit off the machine.

 

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I spent a LOT of time last winter with my son throwing baseballs to him from behind an L screen - FROM 25 - 30 FEET AWAY! Now, that's not for everyone, because you had better have quick reflexes! He's a pretty big boy, 6'2", 195# and hits a baseball VERY hard. To reduce the fear factor, a catcher's mask would probably help. I also worked with DD, who's playing college ball. Try that for an eye-opener. You find out just how hard a softball comes off a Rocket Tech bat!

Here's my reasoning for this insanity. Throwing from a much closer distance allows you to throw much easier, with superior accuracy and less arm fatigue. You can place the throw exactly where you want, and change speeds at will. By throwing from such a close distance, you can throw at just 30 mph, but it looks like 60 mph to the batter. You can throw any variety of "off-speed" pitches. By using a casual wind-up, (obviously overhand for baseball, underhand for softball), the batter can also work on timing, because they're seeing an actual pitching motion. I think it's nearly impossible to do quality work on timing (stride, load, etc.) with a machine.

Pitching machines (and cage machines) throw one speed, have one release point (usually too high for fastpitch), and throw at one spot, forcing the batter to change positions to simulate different pitch locations. You can change speeds and location, but it takes a little set-up time and a few test pitches to get what you want.

The son was having trouble hitting drops, curves, and "away" pitches. Because of his height, he got a LOT of off-speed, away pitches. All I can say is that after working like this - with VERY LITTLE use of a machine, the results were phenomenal. There's more to it than just that - we used Right View and some Steve Englishbey methods too.

90% of our work involved tee work, soft toss, and hitting "L-screen" pitches, combined with Right View video analysis. About the only time we used a machine was for fine tuning, to see if he was driving the ball consistently (avoiding pop-ups and grounders). A LOT of work, but you get out of it what you put into it.

 

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stp12 the true riseball will look like a fastball half-way to the batter. Sometimes, if it isn't a true riseball it may be just a high fastball, it will look a bit high at this point. Then as it gets closes it will move up in the zone unitl it is around their shoulder level. A true riseball will bite around 10 feet out and move up quickly. So if you are trying to hit it you will either miss it, pop it up, or foul it off. We always told our ladies if it looked high halfway and was moving pretty good just to let it go. So you can practice as much as you want off of a tee it doesn't help with the riseball. I did her I beleive it was Michelle Smith in the college finals say that if you are expecting a riseball to start you swing with your hands higher up. This obviously isn't a normal type of swing.

 

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Sammy, might I say, your method is certainly a "courageous" one and makes perfect & complete sense. ?I think we'll give it whirl!
What's aggravating is.......some girls can hit off that machine or tee all day long, but put them in front of a live batter and what happens??? They can't connect for the life of them! Is the machine and the tee too "non-realistic"?

 

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eatsleep.. No I believe the tee and machines are good teaching aids, but nothing beats seeing live pitching. The player needs to be confident and comfortable hitting against live pitchers. Without the mental part all the practice and work on mechanics will do nothing for them . Everyone seems to overlook the mental aspect of the game. Confidence and belief in yourself and your abilities is a must when playing the game. JMHO.

 

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Tee work is where the fundamentals are learned and enforced. I would never let my DD hit off a machine without a good round off the tee first. If their form on the tee isn't perfect the machine will make it worse. The pitching machine's best attribute is for hand/eye coordination, not your mechanics.

 

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eatsleep - at advanced levels of both baseball and fastpitch softball, a skill that's VERY important to have (and wins a LOT of close games) is having a skilled hitter be able to "manufacture" a hit. Pretty obvious, but not effectively practiced a lot.

You've got a runner on third, two outs, and you REALLY need to get that runner in. How many coaches just cross their fingers and hope for the best? You're odds are considerably better if that batter knows how to work a pitch count, has excellent pitch recognition, plus has the ability to use what may be termed an ugly swing if needed, to bloop a low outside pitch into the gap over the second baseman's head. It may have been a "ball", but you don't need a walk! You need that run! That's manufacturing a hit.

The point of this is, by using live pitching from behind a screen, you can simulate actual game situations. You can give them a "count", then throw a certain pitch and see how they react. Teach them to look for certain pitches in a given pitch count situation. This is for more advanced kids only, and they need to have already built good solid, repeatable swing mechanics. Then they build on that to make minor corrections in their swing - to tilt and "go get" that outside pitch, or keep the hands higher through the swing for an anticipated high pitch, or get the hands through quicker if jammed with an inside pitch. IMO, this type of work is far more valuable and effective than just taking hacks at machine-pitch balls.

 

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I have to agree that the tee's are for machanics and muscle memory. We use alot of them and do some machine and front toss work, but if I want the girls to see movement I use my Jugs Lite Flight machine which really moves.

 

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So Sammy, my dd is a 13 year old "power-hitter", assuming she connects with the ball correctly. ?She's 4th batter and always has runners on base, ready to come in. ?She'll always hit, but she hasn't learned to "manufacture" a hit, like you spoke of. ?I would love to see her be able to do this. ?We've invested so much time in getting her to master hitting the good pitches, I'm wondering how I'll convince her that she needs to swing at the bad ones from time to time as well. ?I've always wanted her to learn to work the ball. ?Sounds like your drill might do the trick!

 

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Sammy has some good ideas. When we do go to the cage we hit baseballs at the 60MPH range with an old bat. Never softball. Smaller target and faster.
Next to learn to hit off speed mix them up and go down to the lower speeds, so they must change the bat speed. Here is a drill that we learned to hit the curve , rise and drop.l. I stole it off another coach so I won't take the credit. We use lids, that act like a frisbee. Tennis can lids, coffee can lids all work well. You can change the speed and they go up and down like a softball. You can hit them and they take a beating. You can also throw them very fast. They are better than small balls and other objects that others use. We have been to some very good camps over the years and every camp we have went to you spend most of your time on tee's, before you to to the cage.

 

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eatsleep - each coach has their own ideas about what they want in a given game situation. Like the situation I described, maybe #7 is up to bat, who has a .150 batting average. I think the coach would rather take the walk in that situation, if given the option.

I would never teach a kid to swing at a "bad" pitch. But the definition of a "bad" pitch changes with the pitch count, and the game situation. An easy example is the difference between a 0-0 count and a 1-2 count. A pitch on the outside corner might be a "bad" pitch with 0-0, but with 1-2, the batter needs to be looking to hit that pitch if it's on the corner. A lot of that ability comes from confidence building in practice situations. They have to know HOW to go get that pitch. It's not an overnight learning process, but with smart, hard work it WILL happen.

Granted, facing a smart pitcher also decreases your odds. But if kids would start at younger ages learning this stuff, you'd see a lot more great hitters by high school age. Once they figure out that they CAN hit those pitches, you'll have the makings of a confident, aggressive hitter that attacks the ball, and EXPECTS to get a hit.

 

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Sammy great advice! I'll have to give that a try.

 

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We dont use a pitching machine at all at our practices. I talked to several College Coaches and they prefer Tee work, Front Toss with wiffle balls ( not side toss) and Live pitching to machine .I see to many girls that practice with a machine and they develop a swing that is always in the same spot no matter where the ball is pitched.

 

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Another one that we have used in the past is a toss from the side and to the rear. The girl has to time it and pick it up. It definitely makes them work.

 

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You can buy a complete Jugs package right now for $2273 -- cage, machine, screen, balls.

You can buy a pop up net for $120, five point tee for $55, a soft toss machine for $235 (or less), and a couple dozen whiffle balls for about $35. Total about $450.

I'd take the second package any day to work on hitting mechanics, and have money left over to buy the best hitting tool of them all -- a good digital video camera.

 

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Oh yeah, playing it back on video. Priceless!