To play or not to play...

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Ok, I'm in a bind and I need some advice. My dd is an 8th grader. She really wants to play middle school ball to be part of the "school spirit". But, we have parent coaches with little to no softball experience as coaches. Against my better judgement I let her play last year. After all the private lessons and countless dollars spent on hitting and pitching, it all went down the toilet in one middle school season. With practices 6 days a week and closed to parents, the "skills" they were teaching were horrible. Took us a couple months to unlearn the muscle memory and get her back on track and her travel team suffered for it. I have talked to the athletic director several times, even got experienced softball people from outside the school district to volunteer to coach, and even got experienced softball parents from in our district to volunteer, (we are pay to play and middle school isn't even school sponsored even though AD makes decisions on coach). Did all this to no avail. Named same coaches again this year. And please, this isn't a personal issue about the coaches, I like them personally.
What do I do?
I understand her desire to be recognized in her school, but I also know that we can't let her go backwards like last year. Any advice out there?

 

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If you feel it's that bad, then you already know the answer to your question.

I personally can't believe any coach could ruin your DD that bad over the course of a season, especially if she has had the training you say she has received. She should know the difference between what she was taught($$$) and what these coaches are showing her, and be able to decipher good from bad. If not, then it is your job to re-inforce the good to her after any game or practice, without jeopardizing your DD's relationship/respect for her coach. If she developed bad habits over the span of 2-3 months, I would put much of the blame on your DD for not working hard enough on her proper mechanics($$$), and just going through the motions.

My DD has been to numerous clinics, and has one of the best hitting instructors in the area, and if a summer rec. coach were to wreck her swing over the course of 2-3 months, I'd have to blame her and myself. Because for one...she knows better, and two....it meant we wearn't working on it at home, which is my fault. JMHO Good Luck!!

 

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You're right some of it was our fault. I found it hard with her practicing 6 days a week and trying to fit in homework and keeping grades up to also require her to do extra work at home. On the other hand it was very hard for her to say "No this is the way I was taught and this is the way I'm going to do it". She was in an impossible situation. Parents say stick to what you were taught and coach says no do it my way or run more laps etc... It was really an impossible situation for her. So we did let it slide some to keep the peace. We shouldn't have. We should have taken the issues and the things that were being taught to the AD or higher and made a real issue of it. We just didn't want to make problems for her. And now that the issues have been taken to the AD, he obviously doesn't care, or just doesn't understand.
And I do, I know my answer, I guess I'm just looking for someone who may have a different take or perspective on it. I'm trying to find a middle ground in a place there doesn't seem to be one...lol.

 

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My first instinct as a parent would be to approach the coach and just try to explain to them that you have spent countless hours and money to get your DD to where she is, and discuss the differences between what she has been taught, and what the coach teaches. Try to find a meeting point where everyone wins.

Being a HS and travel coach I see the other side of the coin as well. First and foremost I as a coach don't want to be told how to do things, but I would be open to discussion on your feelings and expectations, again trying to find a middle grounds. But the moment I was told how you thoughts things should be, our discussion would be over. Talk to the coach the moment you feel something is not right, but do it cautiously and respectfully, and I think you'll be surprised at the outcome....but then again I could be wrong.

 

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In my opinion she should play, school is about being with your friends and having fun, then later in life you have all the great memories that go along with it. Also, if she is truly talented enough to play in college, if that is her plan, then her 8th grade year will have very little impact in the whole scope of things.

 

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This has happened to my oldest dd but she wasnt the one that stayed in middle school ball she took the position of the girl that decided to play middle school ball, and I have to say the poor girl who decided to play middle school ball was behind the whole year and never did earn a position back on the team. She also missed the first few tournys with travel ball and she never clicked with the rest of the girls, it just seems to much to loose for middle school ball.

 

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Have her play, she is a year older, wiser and it will giver her workouts to be ready for the summer. School teams are important in a childs life and it's not about the wins at that age. Why is a Middle school practicing 6 days anyway? Our high school doesn't even do that.

Tom

 

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As a 6th grader last spring our dd played in the 'middle school' division for spring ball for her community team. The coaching staff (which is still learning the game and taking winter coaching clinics) and us had the understanding that the way our daughter was being taught in travel ball, they wouldnt mess with it and let her do her own thing (technique wise with hitting,pitching,fielding) the way she was being taught. Of course she did all the team drills and such as a team player that she should of done as a regular player. At times the coach would ask her for her thoughts and assistance if he was unsure, things as bunting fundimentals and such.

Our daughter was thrilled to being able to play with her friends and playing for her home town (as she does in summer league). Most of these girls will be her future teammates when it comes to high school ball, so it is good that they get used to eachother at an early age.

Id say talk with the coaching staff at your school and let them know that your daughter is being taught (thru travel ball) by strong coaches and dont want to change anything (per your choice and the travel coaches choice). A rec or league coach can throw their thoughts at ya, but dont mean that you haft to take their advice!

 

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IMHO, the issue is whether the middle school coach understands his or her level of expertise. Shayne can afford to be really strict about parents not dictating to school coaches, because Shayne is, as a result of his umpiring, travel ball coaching, and school coaching, an expert. And he has indicated that if the parent is willing to just discuss the differences between the approach that the paid coaching is taking and the approach that Shayne is taking, Shayne will consider the differences and whether Shayne's method might give way to the paid coach's method.

BUT if all4softball is accurately describing his daughter's plight, she is running laps for not following the middle school coach's methods and those coaches are relatively inexperienced parents. All4 doesn't say whether he attempted to talk to the school coaches. If he did make an attempt and the coaches wouldn't discuss allowing his daughter to use techniques that she has been taught by paid coaches, that's a shame AND a real problem for all4 because these coaches clearly don't recognize their relative level of expertise.

We've got girls on our team who go to Ron Marstiller for pitching and to Howard Carrier for hitting; other girls have different well-respected coaches. The first words out of my mouth when I see something that I don't like for these girls are "Does Ron want you to [insert what I perceive to be a problem]" or "Does Howard have you [insert the problem]"? If the answer is yes, I don't make my suggested change, unless I think that the problem is so significant that another approach should be tried. This boils down to if the paid coach is Howard or Ron, I almost never make a suggested change; in fact, even if the player says she hasn't talked with Howard or Ron about the issue, I just ask her to do that at her next lesson. If it's a paid coach I've not had much experience with, I usually have the girl experiment with my suggested change and if it appears to be helping, I ask the girl to clear that change with her paid coach at the next lesson.

If the middle school coaches are aware that all4's daughter has had paid instruction and that there are significant differences between that past coaching and the middle school methods, but they are still making all4's daughter runs laps if she uses her paid coaching instruction, then I think all4 and his daughter have a very serious problem and probably should decide to skip this season of middle school ball. Sorry, all4, but if you have already brought this topic to the middle school coaches only to be rebuffed, then I don't think there is a middle ground. You either have to accept the need to retool on a daily basis (or during the first weeks of a short summer travel ball season) or you have to skip middle school ball.

 

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I'm in agreement with cgs. Once I read about punishment, as in laps, were involved, then it sure sounds like the middle school coaches have zero tolerance for other methods whether they are paid for or not.

It's really too bad there are coaches like this around. Is it inexperience, stubbornness or stupidity, that the middle school coaches don't acknowledge the fact that serious players and parents are seeking outside, paid instruction?

As a parent, all4, you have to weigh the importance of the fun/team spirit factor, against the seriousness, dedication and big bucks you are committing to improve your dd. You may be at that point where you have to have the "talk" about what your dd is expecting out of her game longer term.

 

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All great advice from each poster. Hitter1's last sentence is what I was thinking. Lament the fact all we want, but 8th grade seems to be about the point where a girl needs to decide whether to ramp it up or not.

 

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I don't know how it works in your school district but where we live and play actual skill and talent don't always have a lot to do with playing time or player selection. That being said, if you can skip a year of lap-running and come back next year and get playing time for 9th grade/JV, etc. then I would skip it. However, if your school athletics are more political then not playing Middle School Ball could hurt her chances of playing on Varsity down the road.

 

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From a coaches viewpoint. I have seen many paid instructiors that have taught a kid something that is wrong. Shayne and I have ran into this as coaches. Just because you paid for a hitting lesson doesn't mean the dd is doing it right. I could give you examples. cgs , best stated it. I ask who taught you and then we discuss why I teach a different method. 9 times out of 10. the kid or parent can't explain why they do it the way they were taught. If a coach is good, they will also learn from the best. Kobota, Hillhouse, and Howard Carrier, just to name a few that are out there. Then you can have an open discussion of the differences and come to a common understanding.

I had a girl last year that would not change, that paid a hitting coach to teach her to take her hands to the ball. This year she is in college and guess what the first thing the college coach corrected. All because mother stated , I paid for her to learn this method and we are not going to change. .

 

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And please, this isn't a personal issue about the coaches, I like them personally.

When all4softball stated this...I assumed that this coach was approachable and some sort of good could come from communication with the coach.

 

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Just to clear up a few things...I did talk to the coaches last year. They were very nice and approachable to face, but tryouts and practices were closed doors, so once they went behind closed doors it was a different story. I spoke to them several times and they assured me they respected her instruction and the coaches she has and that it would be fine. Then dd would come home and show how they were teaching to swing, or how they wanted her arm to be on a throw (side arm) etc... I did try!!! I just didn't want to go on up the line of command past the AD for fear of the penalties she would suffer. And yes, they practiced all season, even once games started 6 days a week. It was a very tough time to find any extra time to work with her. Home from school at 3:20, eat a snack start home work, leave to get back to the school in time for practice between 5:30 and 6:00, practice from 6:15 to 8:00, home by 8:30, dinner and finish homework...not much time to fit in any extra.
I guess we just have to have the hard conversation. Her dream is all about college and playing ball...so...

 

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I'm in agreement with cgs. Once I read about punishment, as in laps, were involved, then it sure sounds like the middle school coaches have zero tolerance for other methods whether they are paid for or not.

It's really too bad there are coaches like this around. Is it inexperience, stubbornness or stupidity, that the middle school coaches don't acknowledge the fact that serious players and parents are seeking outside, paid instruction?

As a parent, all4, you have to weigh the importance of the fun/team spirit factor, against the seriousness, dedication and big bucks you are committing to improve your dd. You may be at that point where you have to have the "talk" about what your dd is expecting out of her game longer term.

I like the part you wrote "It's really too bad there are coaches like this around. Is it inexperience, stubbornness or stupidity." Techincally it is all three, I see this alot with new coaches when I'am officiating their games.

 

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8th grade, school ball. no question she should play with her friends and school. at that age its about having fun. If it becomes work then burnout is inevitable. Let her have fun and be the best player on the team. It will help her with leadership and make her appriciate summer ball even more.

this may sound a little crass but, it is easy to find reasons for not doing well in summer ball.

Closed practices? with 13 year old girls... something is wrong there too.