Trophy Hunting

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Its just from our experience when we play alot of the high end tournaments in the East, that the 18U teams are mostly freshman, sophomore and juniors playing up. The 16U teams for the most part are from looking at the rosters middles school kids and freshman. The good majority of our team can play 16's but after talking with countless college coaches, they want to see us playing 18's, where they say the best competition is, and playing against kids who are committed to DI and DII programs, which is a good gauge for them when recruiting at kid.

We aren't worried about Nationals, as we are basically a showcase team for the most part, so we play every thing at 18's. If everyone is looking at 16's then why at the bigger showcases are they classified as 18's with a few 16 teams added in at a Pennsbury or Team New Jersey, or Rising Stars?

 

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Its just from our experience when we play alot of the high end tournaments in the East, that the 18U teams are mostly freshman, sophomore and juniors playing up. The 16U teams for the most part are from looking at the rosters middles school kids and freshman. The good majority of our team can play 16's but after talking with countless college coaches, they want to see us playing 18's, where they say the best competition is, and playing against kids who are committed to DI and DII programs, which is a good gauge for them when recruiting at kid.

We aren't worried about Nationals, as we are basically a showcase team for the most part, so we play every thing at 18's. If everyone is looking at 16's then why at the bigger showcases are they classified as 18's with a few 16 teams added in at a Pennsbury or Team New Jersey, or Rising Stars?

I agree the whole stay at 16U thing is not really true from my conversations with some college coaches. They say play the best and as far as I can see that would mean playing 18U. As long as your skill level warrents it. JMHO

 

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I agree the whole stay at 16U thing is not really true from my conversations with some college coaches. They say play the best and as far as I can see that would mean playing 18U. As long as your skill level warrents it. JMHO

16u ASA/USA will be the highest recruited tournament in the nation.......NOT 18u. I guarantee that.
(not taking into account Premier, a whole different discussion).
We will agree to disagree, you listen to your people, I will listen to mine.

 

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Maybe we ought to have Doug survey the college coaches on this one too! As Sam mentioned above, the real key to recruiting is communication between the athlete and the coach. With that being said, given that we know that most (not all) D1 softball players commit by their sophomore or junior years, and if we assume that D1 coaches can only attend so many events, aren't they going to attend ones where the majority of the players are not committed yet, as opposed to ones where many of the players are either committed or perhaps have even decided they are not going to play in college?

That's what I have always heard anyhow. I only attended 16-U ASA/USA nationals one time, and it was literally a who's who of all the major college coaches. I attended 18-U NSA Nationals once, and it was quite the opposite though I am sure that had a lot to do with the fact that it was NSA vs. ASA/USA ....

 

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100% in agreement with you, Warren, and a plus 1 on what Les said. I personally know that Les went out last year and played the toughest teams he could find and often played up against 14U teams. My girls only won one tournament (USSSA Early Bird WS Qualifier), but we made it into the platinum division at every single ASA tournament that we played in. They would get jealous when friends on other team would win the "gold" medal in a tournament where we run ruled that team in pool play. I would point out to them even if a team won a gold (versus the platinum) the best they finished was 9th place. We went 40-32-3 last year, but we played tough teams, had some great games, and even beat an elite team every once in a while. Even when I coached Rec A I sought better teams and sometimes we got a butt-kicking handed to us (thank you Les at Rivershores ), but we were a better team for it and we learned what we needed to do.

 

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I agree that ASA 16u Nats draws a larger crowd than 18u ASA Nats. I believe there was a thread on here with the list of college coaches in attendance somewhere. If you are showcasing, go 16u for three years and mix in some 18u PGF, Rising Starz etc....more importantly, know your audience and what they need...i.e. If they just recruited a pitcher for 2012, and they have two juniors pitchers currently on the squad, look at your dd's class year to see if they will be recruiting what your dd brings to the table. This is where having knowledgeable TB coaches is very important.

 

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I do know that the number of coaches is bigger at 16U Nationals but just going to Nationals does not get you recruited actually might be the smallest part of it.

 

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I do know that the number of coaches is bigger at 16U Nationals but just going to Nationals does not get you recruited actually might be the smallest part of it.

Well said. If a kid has d1 potential and has done the camp circuit the coaches will come see them play. Why would anyone think that just because they play on a good team at a high level tournament that they will stand out enough? How many kids are at nationals? 1500???

 

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Bottom line, just go ahead and trophy hunt if that's your thing,

Makes it easier on the teams NOT playing in those tournaments.

 

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100% in agreement with you, Warren, and a plus 1 on what Les said. I personally know that Les went out last year and played the toughest teams he could find and often played up against 14U teams. My girls only won one tournament (USSSA Early Bird WS Qualifier), but we made it into the platinum division at every single ASA tournament that we played in. They would get jealous when friends on other team would win the "gold" medal in a tournament where we run ruled that team in pool play. I would point out to them even if a team won a gold (versus the platinum) the best they finished was 9th place. We went 40-32-3 last year, but we played tough teams, had some great games, and even beat an elite team every once in a while. Even when I coached Rec A I sought better teams and sometimes we got a butt-kicking handed to us (thank you Les at Rivershores ), but we were a better team for it and we learned what we needed to do.

Kudos! You can't get better unless you know what better is. We learned a lot about our game speed last year when we consistently faced teams like Ice Black, Sapphires, EMR, Miami Valley Express, H.O.O., Classics, Buckeye Heat, Valley Extreme, Lasers, Etc (Sorry about the ones I missed). Every weekend was a meat-grinder. We didn't win any trophies but we learned a lot about ourselves. We are addressing those deficiencies this winter.

 

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confused did Orrville move south and not tell anyone

LOL You didn't get the memo

 

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Bottom line, just go ahead and trophy hunt if that's your thing,

Makes it easier on the teams NOT playing in those tournaments.

Thank you,
If coaches wanna trophy hunt so be it, the only people they are hurting is their own players. Do I think it's right, NO, but I have enough confidence in my girls, Let's play win or loose were ready. If we loose well then we know we have something to work on at the next practice, eventually we won't loose.

 

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Well, here is one opinion - maybe not the expert but have been through this circuit two times. In younger ages, I think that mixing winning and playing very tough competition is important. Parents of younger kids like winning a lot. You don't have to worry about exposure in 10u and 12u and even as 13's with most kids. Now from 14 - 16 - I say it is all about exposure and communication. True enough that emailing coaches and going to camps is very important but it makes it much easier if you are with one of those "elite" teams and I think that the number of those are very limited. I have a kid going through recruiting now, just did the fall and winter camps as a Sophomore. If you are good, you are good but if you are with a select few organizations, they sit up and pay attention just a little bit more. Believe me, I should know. I co-coached one of the other organizations the last two years and although we won some pretty big games (and lost some), we would still get the comment, you play for who? I am going with the theory of going with a very good coach, who has a proven track record of getting kids recruited for a top notch organization. Somewhere along the way, I learned with my older one that they have to love playing too, or they will find something else!


There you go - the voice of either wisdom or I am just getting old!

Coach Murph

 

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Yes there are a lot of coaches at 16U and 14U nationals, but that doesn't mean its the age group to play. I agree 18's is the place to play, go watch 18U Gold Nationals, or Premiere Nationals, and you will see a lot of coaches there. But for nationals you are talking about one tournament at the end of the year, during the course of the year, look at the big tournaments in the North East, Pennsbury, Deleware, STOP DWI, Newtown Rock, Team New Jersey, they are 18U tournaments and the coaches flock to these tournaments. AT Pennsbury you will see 90% eighteen U teams with the better teams there having underclassman playing up, while there 16U teams are their second option teams for their players. http://pennsburyinvitational.com/2012_early_accpt.php

Another good example is the Jersey Intensity, they are maybe the top team in the Northeaster US. They have a kid on there team, actually heading west to play for UCLA.

http://jerseyintensity.com/

Everyone has there own ways of course, but I we will work with what the top organizations are doing that are putting kids into high end programs and that is playing 18U early and often so long as our players can handle it. Because its not about winning its about being competitive and showcasing at high school level.

 

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Yes there are a lot of coaches at 16U and 14U nationals, but that doesn't mean its the age group to play. I agree 18's is the place to play, go watch 18U Gold Nationals, or Premiere Nationals, and you will see a lot of coaches there. But for nationals you are talking about one tournament at the end of the year, during the course of the year, look at the big tournaments in the North East, Pennsbury, Deleware, STOP DWI, Newtown Rock, Team New Jersey, they are 18U tournaments and the coaches flock to these tournaments. AT Pennsbury you will see 90% eighteen U teams with the better teams there having underclassman playing up, while there 16U teams are their second option teams for their players. http://pennsburyinvitational.com/2012_early_accpt.php

Another good example is the Jersey Intensity, they are maybe the top team in the Northeaster US. They have a kid on there team, actually heading west to play for UCLA.

http://jerseyintensity.com/

Everyone has there own ways of course, but I we will work with what the top organizations are doing that are putting kids into high end programs and that is playing 18U early and often so long as our players can handle it. Because its not about winning its about being competitive and showcasing at high school level.

Outlaws only Ohio team to get in. Very nice list of schools.

 

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Outlaws only Ohio team to get in. Very nice list of schools.

How many Ohio teams applied?

 

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How many Ohio teams applied?

Have no Idea
All I know is that it is one of the best showcases in the country and were going.

 

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Outlaws only Ohio team to get in. Very nice list of schools.

Hey Warren- Which Outlaw's team (age) is attending this tournament/showcase?

 

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hey warren- which outlaw's team (age) is attending this tournament/showcase?

16u

 

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Congrats to the Outlaws on getting in, very tough tournament, last year, as in years past, they took 10 16U teams and they played in their own bracket, and at a different facility than the main complex. The teams that have been there for years are typically at the main complex, but even at the other fields you will see a nice representation of schools, from the Big East, Big Ten, ACC, Colonial Conference, Northeastern conference etc... Here is the list of teams from last year,

http://pennsburyinvitational.com/schedule_brackets.php

Very tough tournament to get in, as they have over 200 teams typically apply.