Verbal Commitment: Promissory Estoppel or a Gratuitous Promise?

[default]

I have a couple of questions. If your DD verbally commits to a college, and has a change of heart before she signs, is this only a gratuitous promise, and she can pull out at any time? Also, if your daughter is verbally committed to a college to play as a short stop, can the college verbal six players for the same job, and at the last moment select the best one of six, and dismiss the other five? When does promissory estoppel kick in when you are only a verbal player?

If you are a verbally committed player as a 16U, should you stop looking for other schools just in case?

Wow, I need a beer.

 

[default]

Alot is due to trust on both sides, coach and player. Yeah a player can pull out even after signing the letter of intent their senior year before they attend school. Coach is taking that chance of the player keeping her word and vice versa.
Our daughter just gave her verbal a couple weeks back. She is a first year 16u player and still has 2 years left of high school. I told her to make 100% sure this is the school you want since she decided on the earlier side of things. Coach also asked us earlier in the year if our dd thought she would go in a different direction to let him know so he could move on and recruit players were looking at the same positions.

Now we turned down the Queen of Diamonds showcase and other showcases out in Kansas and Las Vegas since she has her school. Also wont attend any more college camps. Dont need to now. But yeah we are putting 100% trust in the coach in keeping our daughter and she will attend school there.
So in our case we are done looking but not to say it would be safe for many or other girls also.

 

[default]

Alot is due to trust on both sides, coach and player. Yeah a player can pull out even after signing the letter of intent their senior year before they attend school. Coach is taking that chance of the player keeping her word and vice versa.
Our daughter just gave her verbal a couple weeks back. She is a first year 16u player and still has 2 years left of high school. I told her to make 100% sure this is the school you want since she decided on the earlier side of things. Coach also asked us earlier in the year if our dd thought she would go in a different direction to let him know so he could move on and recruit players were looking at the same positions.



Now we turned down the Queen of Diamonds showcase and other showcases out in Kansas and Las Vegas since she has her school. Also wont attend any more college camps. Dont need to now. But yeah we are putting 100% trust in the coach in keeping our daughter and she will attend school there.
So in our case we are done looking but not to say it would be safe for many or other girls also.

And hope the coach is still there once it is time to sign..........

 

[default]

For both sides, a verbal agreement is not binding. However, most schools will take their verbal agreement seriously because they do not want to get a reputation of a program that reneges, which could potentially destroy their program. Schools will also give offers to multiple players at one time with the understanding that the first player to commit gets the verbal agreement. With all schools, the verbal agreement is only valid if the player meets all of the school's requirements.

Also, a player that breaks multiple verbals or shops an offer can get a negative reputation in the region and schools will tend to shy away from said player.

My advice is this: Do your homework. Once an offer has been tabled, and you like the offer, research the school and its athletic program to make sure it is a good fit. If it is not the right fit tell the coach as soon as possible. If you think it's the right fit, research again to make sure nothing was missed. If it all looks good and it is the right fit, accept the verbal humbly and graciously.

Len

 

[default]

Coach McDaniels mentioned this very thing at the pitching camp in July. He mentioned about a player from a school who's head coach was fired and her committing so early. He said now she up a creek. In other words, he said be patient and as Lenski stated, research.

 

[default]

I have a couple of questions. If your DD verbally commits to a college, and has a change of heart before she signs, is this only a gratuitous promise, and she can pull out at any time? Also, if your daughter is verbally committed to a college to play as a short stop, can the college verbal six players for the same job, and at the last moment select the best one of six, and dismiss the other five? When does promissory estoppel kick in when you are only a verbal player?

Technically, either party can back out at any time because these are not legally binding commitments. Practically speaking, if one party backs out unilaterally, they will be viewed as untrustworthy and people will be wary to deal with them. Softball has a good track record for people acting honorably with verbals, so they are viewed as meaningful commitments. From what I've heard, verbals in football and men's basketball are not as meaningful.

If a player is having misgivings about their verbal, I would expect they would be asking lots of questions. An experienced coach will likely be able to discern serious concerns from normal nerves, which would lead them to question the commitment and initiate a conversation in that regard. If a verbal is to be terminated, it is better done by mutual agreement and the sooner the better.

If you are a verbally committed player as a 16U, should you stop looking for other schools just in case?

Schools find out pretty quickly when players verbal and back off. In any case, the travel team/coaches should inform any college that inquires about a verballed player or else schools won't trust them going forward.

 

[default]

Technically, either party can back out at any time because these are not legally binding commitments. Practically speaking, if one party backs out unilaterally, they will be viewed as untrustworthy and people will be wary to deal with them. Softball has a good track record for people acting honorably with verbals, so they are viewed as meaningful commitments. From what I've heard, verbals in football and men's basketball are not as meaningful.

If a player is having misgivings about their verbal, I would expect they would be asking lots of questions. An experienced coach will likely be able to discern serious concerns from normal nerves, which would lead them to question the commitment and initiate a conversation in that regard. If a verbal is to be terminated, it is better done by mutual agreement and the sooner the better.


Schools find out pretty quickly when players verbal and back off. In any case, the travel team/coaches should inform any college that inquires about a verballed player or else schools won't trust them going forward.

Some posts back, and maybe some years back, I remember reading a post in Ohio Fastpitch Connection, a player believed that she had an agreement, and left Ohio for the west coast. She packed up, moved into the university, and learned she had a few other girls had shared the same agreement with this coach, and had to now compete for the singular spot on the team. She failed to make the team, and turned around and came back to Ohio.

What was worse yet was early on when she gave her verbal commitment, she stopped looking for any other team. Sadly, she had no other team in reserve, and few prospects. I believe this was a perfect case of promissory estoppel, and something that should be thoroughly understood.

Has anyone else heard this story, and does this really happen?

 

[default]

I think if you give your word you stick with it.

 

[default]

Wait, I always thought that if you sign a "letter of intent" (LOI) that it was a binding contract (for one year, at least) with specified terms, ... no? I understand that a "verbal" is nothing more than "going steady" and only as good as your word.

Maybe things are different in NCAA D1 softball as opposed to basketball & football, but in basketball & football verbals change a fair amount of the time, and athletes who sign LOI's are bound to the university for at least the year term, with issues to be worked out if they want released from the agreement. Those are full "grant-in-aid" sports though, so maybe there is a difference in enforcement and limitations within the NCAA for those types of LOI's versus partial "grant-in-aid" arrangements? Is that the belief here??

No clue about NCAA DII, and I would think you can come and go as you please in NCAA DIII?

 

[default]

I've had thoughts about this subject for quite a while. I could see a scenario where a college is held to the verbal for one year (of the scholarship offer, not a playing position). A verbal contract can be valid under the right circumstances. The problem for the student is that there must be consideration given on each side for a contract to be valid. In other words, each side must be giving up at least something. Because I do not think a 15-17 year-old student is going to be held to a verbal by a court, I'm not sure what she is actually giving up in issuing her verbal. She could argue that, in her mind, she gave the verbal with the intention of no longer considering other schools. If she in fact follows through on that intention by ending the marketing process, I could see a decent case.

Because scholarships are only good for one year, that is likely all that a plaintiff would be awarded. And if the new coach doesn't want the player, is it really worth it to sue and get your one year, knowing you're not wanted there?

The legal reasoning behind my theory is that it is the school making the verbal to the player, not the coach. The coach literally makes the verbal promise, but the coach works for the school and does it on behalf of the school. It is the school's money that the coach is spending and the school that the coach is representing. By knowingly permitting coaches to make verbals, colleges are ratifying their validity, and thus, standing behind them. Because the college is in such a superior position over a student in the process, courts will tend to favor the student in these situations. The colleges would be thought to be in a superior position for several reasons: Coaches regularly engage in this negotiating and students and their parents usually only go through it once; coaches are adults and students are kids; coaches are expected to understand recruiting rules to the letter, whereby families understandably will struggle; the recruiting process is mostly business for coaches, but is also emotional for families.

Finally, I can see a judge simply saying to himself, "If you guys are going to make promises to 15-year olds, I'm going to hold you to them, you a$$holes." That might be a judge's first thought and then he'll work backward from there to get that result.

 

[default]

... Also, if your daughter is verbally committed to a college to play as a short stop, can the college verbal six players for the same job, and at the last moment select the best one of six, and dismiss the other five? ...

Technically, either party can back out at any time because these are not legally binding commitments. Practically speaking, if one party backs out unilaterally, they will be viewed as untrustworthy and people will be wary to deal with them. Softball has a good track record for people acting honorably with verbals, so they are viewed as meaningful commitments. From what I've heard, verbals in football and men's basketball are not as meaningful.

If you are a verbally committed player as a 16U, should you stop looking for other schools just in case?

Schools find out pretty quickly when players verbal and back off. In any case, the travel team/coaches should inform any college that inquires about a verballed player or else schools won't trust them going forward.

Some posts back, and maybe some years back, I remember reading a post in Ohio Fastpitch Connection, a player believed that she had an agreement, and left Ohio for the west coast. She packed up, moved into the university, and learned she had a few other girls had shared the same agreement with this coach, and had to now compete for the singular spot on the team. She failed to make the team, and turned around and came back to Ohio.

Oh goody, another story about the west coast... Verbals are normally formalized by a National Letter of Intent (NLI) when the time comes. Didn't she sign one? The NCAA doesn't recognize verbals, so they'll only be of assistance if there is an NLI. BTW, verbals may/usually contain conditions that must be met to receive the NLI and athletic scholarship reductions happen far more often than parents want to admit.

What was worse yet was early on when she gave her verbal commitment, she stopped looking for any other team. Sadly, she had no other team in reserve, and few prospects. ...

What do you think she could have accomplished by continuing to look for another team?
- I seriously doubt any coach would adjust their plans for someone they believe has already committed to another school.
- What will the first coach do when (not if) they find out their committed recruit is still looking for a school?

Best bet is to monitor the school's verbals to see if something is amiss.

Has anyone else heard this story, and does this really happen?

Confirmation of this story requires the name of the school and the year.

A local D1 baseball coach giving a recruiting session at a camp told us that one of the local schools had signed 9-10 pitchers and that obviously some would be cut. Perhaps someone can explain whether Spring sports can exceed the scholarship limit during the Fall.