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Whats the opinion on how long a pitcher should warm up to avoid injury prior to being put in a game?
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amount of time will vary from pitcher to pitcher but I would think 30 or so pitches should have them ready to go.
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I would tend to agree that about 20-30 pitches after stretching and throwing would make sense to reduce the risk of injury. To increase the effectiveness of the pitcher, that could vary a lot by pitcher and be more, but I am always astounded by girls who get up in the middle of the game and go right in or with maybe a half dozen pitches and say they are ready to pitch.
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also want to add that we always have three get ready before the game starts so that helps some too.
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At least for my DD 30 pitches is nowhere near enough. Here is my take on a good warm-up for a pitcher.
2-4 minutes of stretching, focusing on legs, back, and torso. Special focus on hamstrings and making sure torso muscles are loose for rotation.
5+ minutes of overhand throwing, building in intensity, to loosen arm and shoulder. Observe good form at all times.
30-40+ "snap" throws, with no full arm rotation, building distance every 5-10 snaps.
30-40 full pitch throws, including some at distance to fully stretch arm and get rotation mechanics in line.
OPTIONAL - if they are slow to warm up, or it is extra cold, I would do another 5 pitches for each type of pitch thrown (curve, drop, change-up) as a way to get the pitch grooved in.
I would normally expect the full warm-up to take 20-25 minutes.
2-4 minutes of stretching, focusing on legs, back, and torso. Special focus on hamstrings and making sure torso muscles are loose for rotation.
5+ minutes of overhand throwing, building in intensity, to loosen arm and shoulder. Observe good form at all times.
30-40+ "snap" throws, with no full arm rotation, building distance every 5-10 snaps.
30-40 full pitch throws, including some at distance to fully stretch arm and get rotation mechanics in line.
OPTIONAL - if they are slow to warm up, or it is extra cold, I would do another 5 pitches for each type of pitch thrown (curve, drop, change-up) as a way to get the pitch grooved in.
I would normally expect the full warm-up to take 20-25 minutes.
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Assuming a pitcher is taking private pitching lessons, pitching coaches usually have a prescribed warm-up routine. I think those will vary in terms of how much time and how many pitches. My DD requires at least 15 min. when preparing for a start.
I also believe that along with preventing injury, a warm up is also necessary to establish a rythum before pitching to hitters.
Just mine!
I also believe that along with preventing injury, a warm up is also necessary to establish a rythum before pitching to hitters.
Just mine!
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SoftBallLover said:
This is something I never understood, and I see alot of teams do it. Don't you know who is pitching that game or is it just to keep the other team guessing. You don't see this much in high school and college. The team that we used to play on would do the same thing and have 3 catchers warming up the pitchers. Then the catchers and pitchers who don't start the game miss out on warm ups for outfield and infield practice. Doesn't that hurt your defence?
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We have them warm up one at a time during our hour warm ups.
That way they don't miss out on team warm ups.
You never know how the team that you are preparing for will do against the starter so if something crazy happens you always have some one ready.
Not like anything crazy ever happens :
That way they don't miss out on team warm ups.
You never know how the team that you are preparing for will do against the starter so if something crazy happens you always have some one ready.
Not like anything crazy ever happens :
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Blazer...I also have seen it but am a little confused by it. By no means am I criticizing the idea, I just don't understand it. I will have a 3 pitcher rotation and will warm up 2 pitchers prior to a game. One that is slated as the starter and the other that will be on the bench as a reliever, also getting some work between middle innings to be ready if needed.
My 3rd pitcher will be taking ground balls or fly balls for pre-game.
My 3rd pitcher will be taking ground balls or fly balls for pre-game.
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Sideliner ,.....I agree with your regiment . Thats the road my DD and I go.
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From the parents I know whose DD's pitch, what sideliner and mcoburn said seems to be along the line of what the girls pitching coaches want them to do. But again, this is not my area of expertise. I've seen a high school coach put a girl in to pitch late in a game with only a dozen or so warm up throws and to say her parent was pissed off is a real understatement.
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Like Softball-Lover said, "30 pitches should be enough for a reliever to come into the game, as long as she has been in the game; or, did a complete warm up pre-game and got some work a few minutes prior to going in the game."
(As a coach, I have the days starter along with who I want to be the reliever warm up pre-game).
I have seen problems where a girl which is a starter gets used as a reliever.
Usually her pitching coach has said warm up 30 min+ before pitching so that is in her mind during her warm up and by the time she does warm up or gets lose the game could be over. Or she gets put in after 10 min of warm up and has a mental/phisical breakdown because they are in over their head.
As a coach you have got to know the mental or physical make up of your pitchers. Some can get loose quick, while others take some time to be prepared to face hitters.
I have gotten lucky in having a couple of girls that can get loose quick and have the mental make up to go into tough situations and accept the challenge of being a reliever.
These players are also team leaders and can play multipule positions so they are ready to go from 3rd, 1st or outfield straight to pitching if needed.
Not all teams have this luxury.
(As a coach, I have the days starter along with who I want to be the reliever warm up pre-game).
I have seen problems where a girl which is a starter gets used as a reliever.
Usually her pitching coach has said warm up 30 min+ before pitching so that is in her mind during her warm up and by the time she does warm up or gets lose the game could be over. Or she gets put in after 10 min of warm up and has a mental/phisical breakdown because they are in over their head.
As a coach you have got to know the mental or physical make up of your pitchers. Some can get loose quick, while others take some time to be prepared to face hitters.
I have gotten lucky in having a couple of girls that can get loose quick and have the mental make up to go into tough situations and accept the challenge of being a reliever.
These players are also team leaders and can play multipule positions so they are ready to go from 3rd, 1st or outfield straight to pitching if needed.
Not all teams have this luxury.
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Agree with sideliner, we give our pitchers 45 mins. That includes the stretching, overhand, then the routine explained. Depending on the number of pitches they have, all need to be warmed up. Some pitchers work on some days and others do not, some just better.
We have warmed up two or three pitchers at a tournament game, this will depend on schedule might be playing back to back. Now I am speaking from a younger age group 10, 12 or 14. You may have plans to start a particular pitcher, but she may not have the best warmup or be mentally focused at that time, or "other things" may be affecting her warmup. If one of those is to pitch the second game of a dh, then she does not warm up the entire time. But we do also rotate them in warmups so they get fielding/hitting warmups. The planned starter also generally start warmsups 15 mins before the remainder of the team.
Not saying that is the right way, just how we found worked best for us.
I've seen many times some of those pitchers that throw 10 mins and say they are warm and don't starting pitching consistantly until the third inning, then they finally get into a rythum.
Also any coach who throws a girl cold onto the pitching mound, especially in colder weather is crazy. As a parent I would be furious also.
We have warmed up two or three pitchers at a tournament game, this will depend on schedule might be playing back to back. Now I am speaking from a younger age group 10, 12 or 14. You may have plans to start a particular pitcher, but she may not have the best warmup or be mentally focused at that time, or "other things" may be affecting her warmup. If one of those is to pitch the second game of a dh, then she does not warm up the entire time. But we do also rotate them in warmups so they get fielding/hitting warmups. The planned starter also generally start warmsups 15 mins before the remainder of the team.
Not saying that is the right way, just how we found worked best for us.
I've seen many times some of those pitchers that throw 10 mins and say they are warm and don't starting pitching consistantly until the third inning, then they finally get into a rythum.
Also any coach who throws a girl cold onto the pitching mound, especially in colder weather is crazy. As a parent I would be furious also.
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I believe most coaches know what needs done to protect a pitcher from injury but I've seen a few over the years quickly throw their #1 in for the last inning or two to try and "save" a game that was already a lost cause. No game is worth risking a pitching injury and I say if one happens because the girl isn't given the opprotunity to warm up properly then I'd hold that coach responsible.
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No one mentioned running or jogging to get a lather up???
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I wish all coaches were tuned in to pitcher warm-ups, but that hasn't always been my experience. I make it a point to talk to every coach on DD's team, being very specific about the length of her initial warm-up. Even if she doesn't start, as long as she has a full warm-up she will be OK.
Otherwise, I tell DD that she gets her warm-up in the first few innings! She knows not to overthrow because she has strained her arm before because of an inadequate warm-up.
Otherwise, I tell DD that she gets her warm-up in the first few innings! She knows not to overthrow because she has strained her arm before because of an inadequate warm-up.
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All,
Giving away trade secrets here.
What I am posting is what I use with EVERY one of my pitchers for their warm up before every game. We do this EVERY practice before they throw the first pitch. Sometimes dependent on what mechanical flaw we are working to correct we will spend more time on one than the others.
These are the absolutes of my practice so to speak and if you do them every time you pitch or practice I promise your DD will become a better pitcher for it.
DRILLS for RHYTHM, TIMING, RELEASE, HIP SNAP, and SPIN
Static arm spins ? with shoulders square to target, make single rotation and pitch to target. Then make 2,3,4, and 5 rotations before releasing to target. Stay smooth and dont let the shoulders get too active. Stay long and strong into release. Work ball spin. (I teach a bullet spin and this is where we focus working on it)
Dynamic arm spins ? same as static except take one step toward target before releasing (while rotating. Stay smooth and focus on correct ball spin during the whole drill.
K drill ? standing sideways, pivot foot at 45 Deg and stride foot pointing at target, open up till hands are @ 1:00 and 11:00 (load) and left leg is at 7 or 8 o?clock ? stride toward catcher with strong hip snap ? continue a step or two toward catcher.
K drill 2 ? same as above but start with the hands moving forward, ball inside of glove then do windmill to target. Focus on snapping hip closed right after hand comes through to release point.
Pelican drill ? point left knee toward target with shoulders square and balance. Then take one stride toward target and snap hips with delivery.
Walk through ? walk 3-4 steps before delivery. Toe of pivot foot should hit pitching plate and then drive off to target.
Run through ? run 3-4 steps before delivery. Toe of pivot foot should hit pitching plate and then drive off to target.
Long toss ? Start at pitching mound distance. Wind up normally and pitch to target. Back up three steps. Continue pitching and backing up till you cannot get the ball to target in three tries.
Those are the basic drills I use at each of my lessons. They are the same drills that were taught to me by David Jackson my mentor. If you have your DD do these at every lesson, in the span of 6 months you will see tremendous improvement in accuracy, timing, and consistent release point. They are also the drills my student use to warm up before every game. They then throw thier pitches during the warm up. It will take at least 30 min and if you count each arm spin as a pitch they will have thrown over 100 pitches before they go into a live game situation.
If your tossed into the game at the last second then at least you will have those under your belt before you go in to save the team.
Elliott
You can find this and more information on pitching from some of the best pitching instructors at this location on the web.
http://forums.delphiforums.com/fpanalysis/start
Giving away trade secrets here.
What I am posting is what I use with EVERY one of my pitchers for their warm up before every game. We do this EVERY practice before they throw the first pitch. Sometimes dependent on what mechanical flaw we are working to correct we will spend more time on one than the others.
These are the absolutes of my practice so to speak and if you do them every time you pitch or practice I promise your DD will become a better pitcher for it.
DRILLS for RHYTHM, TIMING, RELEASE, HIP SNAP, and SPIN
Static arm spins ? with shoulders square to target, make single rotation and pitch to target. Then make 2,3,4, and 5 rotations before releasing to target. Stay smooth and dont let the shoulders get too active. Stay long and strong into release. Work ball spin. (I teach a bullet spin and this is where we focus working on it)
Dynamic arm spins ? same as static except take one step toward target before releasing (while rotating. Stay smooth and focus on correct ball spin during the whole drill.
K drill ? standing sideways, pivot foot at 45 Deg and stride foot pointing at target, open up till hands are @ 1:00 and 11:00 (load) and left leg is at 7 or 8 o?clock ? stride toward catcher with strong hip snap ? continue a step or two toward catcher.
K drill 2 ? same as above but start with the hands moving forward, ball inside of glove then do windmill to target. Focus on snapping hip closed right after hand comes through to release point.
Pelican drill ? point left knee toward target with shoulders square and balance. Then take one stride toward target and snap hips with delivery.
Walk through ? walk 3-4 steps before delivery. Toe of pivot foot should hit pitching plate and then drive off to target.
Run through ? run 3-4 steps before delivery. Toe of pivot foot should hit pitching plate and then drive off to target.
Long toss ? Start at pitching mound distance. Wind up normally and pitch to target. Back up three steps. Continue pitching and backing up till you cannot get the ball to target in three tries.
Those are the basic drills I use at each of my lessons. They are the same drills that were taught to me by David Jackson my mentor. If you have your DD do these at every lesson, in the span of 6 months you will see tremendous improvement in accuracy, timing, and consistent release point. They are also the drills my student use to warm up before every game. They then throw thier pitches during the warm up. It will take at least 30 min and if you count each arm spin as a pitch they will have thrown over 100 pitches before they go into a live game situation.
If your tossed into the game at the last second then at least you will have those under your belt before you go in to save the team.
Elliott
You can find this and more information on pitching from some of the best pitching instructors at this location on the web.
http://forums.delphiforums.com/fpanalysis/start
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Also any coach who throws a girl cold onto the pitching mound, especially in colder weather is crazy. As a parent I would be furious also.
Ram, this has happened quite often in rec for my daughter, and just last Tuesday against New Castle in my son's jv baseball game. They started a very good right-handed hard throwing freshman pitcher, 3 innings in the NC boys were hammering him. They took my son (lefty junk ball pitcher) cold from left field, let him throw 7-8 from the mound, finished the last 3 innings with 7 ks and no runs, and his team had a late-game rally. It was his first jv victory. Very proud, he insisted he wasn't sore.
Last season (15U rec) dd went in cold about a half dozen times to relieve pitcher who is throwing for our school's varsity team, always did okay, never lost a game from it. But then, she didn't have any junk pitches.
Go figure :
Ram, this has happened quite often in rec for my daughter, and just last Tuesday against New Castle in my son's jv baseball game. They started a very good right-handed hard throwing freshman pitcher, 3 innings in the NC boys were hammering him. They took my son (lefty junk ball pitcher) cold from left field, let him throw 7-8 from the mound, finished the last 3 innings with 7 ks and no runs, and his team had a late-game rally. It was his first jv victory. Very proud, he insisted he wasn't sore.
Last season (15U rec) dd went in cold about a half dozen times to relieve pitcher who is throwing for our school's varsity team, always did okay, never lost a game from it. But then, she didn't have any junk pitches.
Go figure :
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