What is your measurement/gauge?

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Your comments about bad coaches are accurate. That's why you should do your homework before committing to a team; Observe the coaches when you see them at tournaments, watch how they are during tryouts, ask the parents of team members.

This isn't 100% effective, but it helps. Plus it doesn't apply to HS- 'cause you're pretty much left without a choice.
 
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InTheCrowd said:
You know I've heard this a lot lately from coaches when talking to parents but there is a flip-side to this as well. For a good coach, yes, definitely without question. For a not-so-good coach, maybe. For a bad coach, no.

I'm a parent and I've been doing the softball-parent-thing for a decade now and my DD's have played for some wonderful coaches and some awful coaches. I've learned the hard way that you can't just give a coach free range to do whatever. As a parent, you have a responsibility to your kid to listen, watch, and evaluate the coach (which takes some experience and time). I always give the coach the benefit-of-the-doubt. And as players have different skill levels, the same is true for coaches.

In this age with specialty positions, specialty coaches, lessons, etc. Somewhere in there you have to help your as she's developing who and what to listen to. My DD is a catcher and has had a specialty coach helping her develop those skills preparing her for the next level of play for a couple of years now. That coach is awesome and has helped my DD tremendously bloom into a heck of a catcher. Specialty position, specialty coach.

Things are going great. She has colleges interested, more scouting her, she's really starting to come into her own, she's having a blast and loves catching, and wham. We get a coach who wants to change everything with no real good reason of why. Literally, the reason was "I'm the coach". And to top it off the first comment made tells my DD and me this coach doesn't really know what the catching position truly entails (You pick up a few things taking your kid to lessons).

Trust the coach? Really? NO, I don't think so. We gave the a host of reasonable and logical reasons why that wasn't a good idea and never receive a logical reason back. As a parent, I'm not letting an ignorant coach step in the way and damage the success my DD has had. I would be irresponsible to let that happen to my child.

We have had no other coach have any issues with my DD. Usually it's the opposite because she's so into the game she's like having a mini-coach on the field. She's been taught by the catching coach not just to catch but lead and manage the team.

I will say most of my DD's experiences with coaches including other sports have been great. And I do respect those guys because I have two DD's, I can't imagine managing 12 to 14 at one time. And I don't coach my kid, she has enough of those, but I do watch and observe. And as a parent of a player, I do have the responsibility to my kid to do that because young kid growing up hasn't learned to do all of that yet.

Just saying...
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Having a HS coach with "differing opinions" can make for an excellent learning experience for your DD, because if she has college ball plans, she will be far better prepared to deal with like situations in college. All I can say is don't fight the current, but go with the flow. The bottom line is how well your DD executes, not the method she uses. If her skill set is truly ingrained, she will not be affected. If her great swing is REALLY "burned in" so to speak, she will automatically revert to that great swing when the pressure is on.

At game time she needs to focus on executing the play at hand - exactly the way she has been taught. If she executes, there is no reason for any reasonable coach to change her method. On the other hand, if she's NOT executing (like making good throw-downs, etc.) then the HS coach has every right to ask her to change something. But asking her to change "just for the sake of change" is an unreasonable request. Then it's beyond a softball situation - it's turned into a situation of dealing with an unreasonable person.

This all ties in with the measurement gauge... measurable continuous improvement. Is she "better" at the end of HS season, or struggling? My advice is don't blame the HS coach for her "execution failures", because your DD should be fully in control of that. A little "coaching" from mom or dad can help with that - and it's not about the mechanics of softball.
 
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First, a wonderful post Sid. It encapsulates my experience when I've coached. (Just Rec ball.) I believe every parent should coach at least once to get an idea of what goes into it. Improvement is the goal. If you keep improving, winning takes care of itself, whether it's now or 2 or 3, or more years down the road.
 
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I think this entire thread should be must reading for every adult in 8U, 10U and 12U.
 
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Winning should not be the goal, ever.

The pursuit of excellence should be the goal. Winning is a natural by-product of that.
 
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And every coach and parent should umpire a game to get an idea of what goes into it.
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I watched my poor college freshman daughter eaten alive by 8U parents. She learned a lot that day!
 
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I've done it all -- parent, coach, head coach, umpire at all 4 bases. And it does help you to calm down when watching games. (My most gratifying moment was telling some parents to be nice, or we were going to toss them.)
 
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Sammy,

Sammy said:
Having a HS coach with "differing opinions" can make for an excellent learning experience for your DD, because if she has college ball plans, she will be far better prepared to deal with like situations in college. All I can say is don't fight the current, but go with the flow. The bottom line is how well your DD executes, not the method she uses. If her skill set is truly ingrained, she will not be affected. If her great swing is REALLY "burned in" so to speak, she will automatically revert to that great swing when the pressure is on.

At game time she needs to focus on executing the play at hand - exactly the way she has been taught. If she executes, there is no reason for any reasonable coach to change her method. On the other hand, if she's NOT executing (like making good throw-downs, etc.) then the HS coach has every right to ask her to change something. But asking her to change "just for the sake of change" is an unreasonable request. Then it's beyond a softball situation - it's turned into a situation of dealing with an unreasonable person.

This all ties in with the measurement gauge... measurable continuous improvement. Is she "better" at the end of HS season, or struggling? My advice is don't blame the HS coach for her "execution failures", because your DD should be fully in control of that. A little "coaching" from mom or dad can help with that - and it's not about the mechanics of softball.
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I agree with your paragraph provided all things are equal. However, coaches have to understand they have limitations as well as the players. I can't imagine that any reasonable coach would want to change anything a player does unless they find it necessary. I would expect the coach to identify the problem with the player and how changing something will make her a better player. Perfectly reasonable and there's always room to learn.

I would label a coach who wants to change things for no good reason other than they are on an ego kick as unreasonable. If a coach can't give what, why, and how, then he or she shouldn't be changing stuff on players. Because they obviously don't have the real knowledge to advise.

If a player is going to a specialty coach for their position, developing, and shows improvement, why wouldn't a coach "go with that flow"? Assuming the specialty coach has extensive expertise, wouldn't this make the head coach's job easier? (Especially when that head admits to know little about that position).

My DD nor I have ever blamed a coach for execution failures, that is on my DD unless the coach is messing with what the kid has been taught, trained, and had success with without giving any kind of explanation. Basically, don't fix what isn't broke. But some coaches can't accept that and that sets up the conflict.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing all coaches by any means. My DD's travel coach is awesome. She has the expertise to demand a high level of performance, strategically optimize the talent, and keep a balanced approach with the girls keeping it all challenging and fun. She's met the specialty coach several times and they have worked together on the what's and the how's and the why's. We have another girl on our team now going to that specialty coach for instruction.

I have no problem with coaches tweaking my DD's skills on the condition they are qualified to truly know what they are talking about. I agree that experiences with different coaches helps a player assuming all of those coaches are good coaches. I really don't see the benefit of dealing with a bad coach.

Just saying...
 
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Makes sense to me. I just wanted to emphasize the importance of your DD not getting stressed about her HS coach "changing things". Many (not all) HS coaches do have a problem with being told that it's "hands-off" with training certain kids. Not saying that's where you are at all, but if that situation ever would present itself, things can get real ugly - and the player is the one that suffers the most. Your DD rarely can pick and choose her HS team the way you can with travel teams, thus the "go with the flow" comment.

If you as her dad have educated yourself about where your DD should be skill-wise at any given age, and have identified qualified instructors to keep her on track, then no worries. If your DD is on a measurable path to improvement, learning bad habits in a short HS season is VERY unlikely. Even if this coach is instructing her to "squish the bug", coaches usually lay off when the ball is frequently hit very hard through gaps and occasionally over the fence.

I compliment your DD for getting extra help outside of her team coaches. Many teams, both travel & HS, would show tremendous improvement if even half the kids would do this.
 
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Sammy said:
Makes sense to me. I just wanted to emphasize the importance of your DD not getting stressed about her HS coach "changing things". Many (not all) HS coaches do have a problem with being told that it's "hands-off" with training certain kids. Not saying that's where you are at all, but if that situation ever would present itself, things can get real ugly - and the player is the one that suffers the most. Your DD rarely can pick and choose her HS team the way you can with travel teams, thus the "go with the flow" comment.

If you as her dad have educated yourself about where your DD should be skill-wise at any given age, and have identified qualified instructors to keep her on track, then no worries. If your DD is on a measurable path to improvement, learning bad habits in a short HS season is VERY unlikely. Even if this coach is instructing her to "squish the bug", coaches usually lay off when the ball is frequently hit very hard through gaps and occasionally over the fence.

I compliment your DD for getting extra help outside of her team coaches. Many teams, both travel & HS, would show tremendous improvement if even half the kids would do this.
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Hopefully, in our particular case, we have it resolved. We thought it might be a problem with this coach and we did everything we could to prevent an issue including trying to introduce the specialty coach to the HS coach prior to last season but the coach blew us all. My DD played JV last year and that coach was awesome. He met with our coach, they talked, he invited the coach to practices, etc. My DD had a great season, they didn't make the conference playoffs but still great season.

During the off season we met with the coach and we stated our concerns in a reasonable and logical fashion. The head coach presented nothing of what she wanted to do or how it would be beneficial. Are there newer skills that would make my DD better then we're all ears. But she really had nothing. We discussed some options like playing a different position (my DD plays several) to minimize any conflict. We stated our position that my DD is on a good path, she's already has college softball coaches sending her letters that they're interested in her. We've done 3 college unofficial college visits. And this is the summer after her freshman year. She's good at what she does and she's not close to peaking.

The coach said she will work with us, cool. Pitchers and catcher start Monday so we will see.
 
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We broached this subject last summer, when our dd's travel team coach tried to suggest some changes in pitching. Unfortunately, he wasn't qualified. When we talked to our dd's then pitching coach, she said to be polite, show respect, but keep doing it the proper way -- the way she was taught. It's still a very unpleasant situation that requires a delicate touch. Thankfully, this year we won't be running into that situation.

There are times when a team coach will spot something during a game that might not show up during a lesson. At that point, I think the best thing is to do is to describe as accurately as possible and have the private coach work the problem out during a lesson.
I'm sure this is nothing new to most of you.
 
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philbob said:
We broached this subject last summer, when our dd's travel team coach tried to suggest some changes in pitching. Unfortunately, he wasn't qualified. When we talked to our dd's then pitching coach, she said to be polite, show respect, but keep doing it the proper way -- the way she was taught. It's still a very unpleasant situation that requires a delicate touch. Thankfully, this year we won't be running into that situation.

There are times when a team coach will spot something during a game that might not show up during a lesson. At that point, I think the best thing is to do is to describe as accurately as possible and have the private coach work the problem out during a lesson.
I'm sure this is nothing new to most of you.
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Last sentence bears repeating, because the process you describe in your last paragraph is extremely important, and often is overlooked. This applies to ALL positions, not just pitching. Keeping a diary is a great thing to do, then show the notes to the instructor at the next lesson. This way you're focusing on what needs improvement the most - a prioritized approach.
 
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Last year my DD learned the "listen, nod politely, and if it's different than the way you've been trained, stick with the way you've been trained" approach. (Last year's HS coach was still in "squish the bug" mode during pre-season practice.) DD did a lot of nodding but backed it all up during games with effective hitting.

No conflict there, but she had to learn that "listen and nod" approach. She was initially very worried that she needed to change her swing if she was going to make the team. In reality, all she had to do was hit well in the cage after nodding a lot (and not changing a thing).

Do you think a lot of HS coaches decide to start changing things before they even really see how the player performs?
 
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Yes, unfortunately I do think that happens; probably happens in TB as well. We had a young lady who can hit the heck out of the ball but who was told by her hs coach during try-outs that she needed to make several changes to her swing. The one change that I remember the best was to start rolling her wrists prior to contact.

She was a wreck mentally. We told her to nod and just keep doing what she had done for us all the previous summer, which had been tremendously effective.

She ended up hitting something like .360 for her hs.

We mostly tell our players that if they hit .300 we won't be looking to change their swings. But we are committed enough to the Carrier.Bustos system that we will strongly encourage players hitting less than .250 to make the change to that system.
 
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If a girl can hit the snot out of the ball standing on her head, I'm not going to change her at all. lol

I heard the coaches from Tennessee say that they will have a recruit one full year before they start to make changes to a kid if they aren't as productive as they think they can be.

Hitting is tough enough, without putting a million thoughts in there heads.
 
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My dd knows a player who is just plain confused at the plate after having three different TB coaches work with her swing the last 3 years. The girl needs an intervention, once her head stops spinning.
 
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