What player is more valuable to a team.

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Seriously???

No, but the comment about ONLY Pitchers receiving schollarships kind of fueled my funny bone comment. lol

 

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I actually think it is the exact opposite.

I think you are going to see pitching normalize for the most part. And the value of a great catcher or hitter will increase.

Yep! Kind of like how the NFL QB position was highly underskilled in the 60's - 80's with maybe 4-5 extremely talented QBs in the NFL each year. Today, there are 2nd stringers that would have started on just about any team back in day.

Pitching will equalize much like the QB position. Everyone will have a studd, if not two. It's not like there is great ahtletic requirements to pitch. Big Girls will start to realize the potential they have as Pitchers compared to Volleyball and BasketBall, and SURPRISE, there will be 6ft pitchers everywhere.

 

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My answer to the question in my previous post is truly my opinion. The comments made after are hypothetical at best but something to consider in today's world. Let me try to explain why this could happen.

With today's economy the possibility exists that colleges would cut back on the number of scholarships they would hand out to non-revenue earning sports. Of course football is revenue earning. Football will get everything they want or need because after all, almost all of the money in the till comes from them while a small in comparison portion comes from men's basketball. Having these numbers to consider, why wouldn't schools limit the number of scholarships to programs that are incapable of supporting themselves?

Keep in mind, student athletes with excellent grades will still be rewarded for their academic achievements. In some cases that may mean a full ride-----but not because they can hit home runs on the field. What happens if you are a college coach and the AD tells you that your softball program, that's only averaging about 150-250 paying spectators per home game, is only going to receive 4 scholarships per year? You are not allowed to split the scholarships and they can only be awarded as a whole scholarship. Who would get them? For me, my top priority is to seek out Jennie Finch type players, pitchers of the highest quality that have the athletic ability to play other positions. I may only pitch a couple but I'll play them all because of their ability to contribute to the team effort outside the circle. My guess is almost every one of Mike Candrea's players pitched at some capacity when they were in high school.

What happens in today's world, if the individual sport programs are being rewarded from Administration with extra funding for grade point averages? If you are a coach, wouldn't you try to recruit solid academic players that would improve your chances to receive more funding? The more money in the till, the more things you can do. Guess what; that’s happening now.

Don’t come to the house with a butterfly net or a shotgun depending on how you interpret the points of interest I’m spitball”ing with you. lol. I don’t want any of this to happen. I want Fastpitch Softball to become America’s next sport and the women to have parity with men’s sports on TV. Maybe it’s a dream but I’m allowed to dream. I’m concerned with today’s economy and the effect it will have on our sport.

If Fastpitch WOULD become more popular, we’d have our own money to work with and wouldn’t need to worry. Just like any business, the first cuts will come to those departments that are not productive. In this case, programs without earning potential will be hurt first---and the most.

I am intrigued with the thought that pitching or pitchers would become a non-issue due to the fact that every school will have a bullpen full of productive pitchers to choose from. More good pitchers will mean better opportunities for more talented teams to compete at all levels, hence increasing the popularity of our sport to an all time high. Hey, maybe we will get there!

 

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I say all positions are just as equal when you break down the responsibility each person has to do. If all nine players are not moving on every single pitch then they are not doing their job correctly. Yes, I know an outstanding pitcher is nice but if you do not have the defense behind her or the bats to score a run then she does you no good either, you gotta play solid defense and be able to hit to score runs to win. Plus I think most coaches are still all about winning instead of teaching the game. If you start off teaching the game correctly at the younger ages and not worry about winning so much then the game becomes much easier as they get older. This is on the coaches with parents supporting them, not bashing them because they are not winning and jumping ship. I tell my kids that you have to learn how to lose, then learn how to compete and once you learn how to compete the wins will come. This sounds easy but if everybody involved does not buy into it you are in for a long season. So there for in my mind it takes every coach, player and parent to win a game and with that being said I believe no one person on a team is more important than another one. The teams that sit back and play the game the correct way are fun to watch and be around. Their parents stay calm and cheer them on as well as the other team when they make a nice play along with the coaches. Remember we are here for the kids to learn and become better and you never know when they go off to play in college their teammate could be the studette from a team that you played in a tournament some where in travel ball. The friends my family has made through travel ball is tremendous and I would not take that away for nothing. The memories my daughters have and will have will be carried on forever. I wish every athlete the best of luck and for all parents to sit back and enjoy their daughters play this year and in the years to come. Goodluck to all this year and every year that follows.

 

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Boss, I am no expert by any stretch. I thought that the NCAA establishes the number of scholarships awarded for each school. If economics were allowed to influence that. Schools like OSU would have 100 scholarships for football instead of 86. Also, title IX would become a factor because, if a school was in economic downturn they could not reduce the scholarships they would have to eliminate a team. They would have to eliminate a mens team also. The school could impliment a more stringent qualification process to insure that they were getting the most academically sound athletes but the money spent would still be the same. What is the difference of offering 12 softball scholarships or 12 academic scholarships. The university has still spent the same amount. I have seen schools that are economically challenged in the past do things to generate revenue. in 2002 the Buckeyes were supposed to play a non conference game in Cali. The school was in bad shape and opted to change the venue back to OSU because the payday would be much greater and the income from that game payed for the rest of the years sports budget. I am with you, I would love to see softball become the womens sport in America that gives womens professional sports legitamacy and parity to mens sports. If that happened we would get alot more coverage of the lower levels as well i.e. college, High School, and elite travel tourneys.

I am a little of topic here. Back to the topic in that the most valuable player is still the dominant pitcher first. All positions are critically necessary. But it all starts and ends in the circle.

X

 

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the second baseman with the weak arm yuk yuk yuk

or

the coaches DD, right?

 

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An outstanding pitcher who is not really good at fielding or hitting

A dynamite power hitter who is just ok at fielding

A well rounded player who can do a great job at several positions
but it only maybe an average batter.


Just curious;&

For play below the college level (especially high school) and depending on what value system the head coach has, the answer could literally be any player on the team.

For college (DI & DII), I think the value of the position is in direct proportion to how the ATHLETIC scholarship money is distributed. Look up the stats on that and you'll have your answer. Academic money does come into play, but that money is not the primary funding source. For DI & DII, supplemental academic money is often used to pad a program which is not fully funded.

P.S. X-Static has it... colleges are businesses, but the rules are strictly dictated by the NCAA. And when taxpayer dollars are involved, those little "gotchas" like Title IX come into play and equalize things that don't directly relate to athletic ability/popularity equivalence (boys vs girls).

 

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X-static is correct that the NCAA established a maximum amount of scholarships that each school can pass out for individual sport programs. The key word here is maximum but to my knowledge that doesn't mean the individual schools are required to hand that number out. I'm reasonably sure not all do unless there's been a change of rules.

Also; Title IX would come in to effect if they tried to cut things for softball and not cut the same for "like" sports which in this case would be baseball, another program not earning its way.

Please don't get me wrong here. I know we have wondered away from the thread's main question and I'm sharing my thoughts (perhaps not thinking them completely thru) on comparing a perfect world to the real time world. Maybe I should have started another thread titled "How will our sport be effected by today's economy" and asked questions such as the ones being raised now.

I want our sport to thrive so when things threaten it---I worry. Money may always threaten Fastpitch until "popularity" reaches a level we can have a blanket of security. Again, it's just my opinion.

 

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I have to disagree with the pitcher being number 1. What is the point of having an out feild or other feilders if she outstanding? What happens if something happens to that outstanding pitcher she can't cover every position if the outstanding batter gets up? You need player who knows every base to know where the play is. Your pitcher is nothing with out the the rest of the team so I would rather be on a team that has a bad pitcher and bad hitters as long as they know how to work how to work the feild because when it all comes down to it, it really depends on if the girls can work together and if they know how to play the game.

 

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I have to disagree with the pitcher being number 1. What is the point of having an out feild or other feilders if she outstanding? What happens if something happens to that outstanding pitcher she can't cover every position if the outstanding batter gets up? You need player who knows every base to know where the play is. Your pitcher is nothing with out the the rest of the team so I would rather be on a team that has a bad pitcher and bad hitters as long as they know how to work how to work the feild because when it all comes down to it, it really depends on if the girls can work together and if they know how to play the game.

I guess your intitled to your opinion.

 

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I have to disagree with the pitcher being number 1. What is the point of having an out feild or other feilders if she outstanding? What happens if something happens to that outstanding pitcher she can't cover every position if the outstanding batter gets up? You need player who knows every base to know where the play is. Your pitcher is nothing with out the the rest of the team so I would rather be on a team that has a bad pitcher and bad hitters as long as they know how to work how to work the feild because when it all comes down to it, it really depends on if the girls can work together and if they know how to play the game.

If you have bad hitters, how do you generate runs? The object of the game after all is to out score the opponent. If you have bad hitters, your team doesn't stand a chance.

 

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Really every postition is valuable, but being the dad of a pitcher I have to say the Catcher is the more valuable player to a team. If you don't have a good catcher to stop those movement and high speed pitches and able to throw the runners out , the ace pitcher's stuff doesn't matter.

 

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c-mon DORK, how long have you been around this game? you show me a team of good defensive players with no pitching and I will show you a team that gets mercy ruled more times than you can count. The defense is important but with out pitching you have nothing. Yes your team must be able to score a run to win but pitching is what matters most. That is why pitchers are the most sought after players. every player on the team is important and must do their job to be successful. but if a pitcher is getting rocked or struggling with strike zone, you don't yank the short stop or the right fielder you yank the pitcher. Who is responsible for walk that scores. the center fielder who didn't get to the ball or the pitcher who put that runner on for free in the first place. It actually goes deeper than that but you get the point.

X

 

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Really every postition is valuable, but being the dad of a pitcher I have to say the Catcher is the more valuable player to a team. If you don't have a good catcher to stop those movement and high speed pitches and able to throw the runners out , the ace pitcher's stuff doesn't matter.

I had to chuckle on this one ..... Being the Father of a Catcher I have very seldom heard a Pitcher / Pitcher's Family applaud her catcher. So thanks for the nod to the kid behind the plate. It is probally the most underated position on the team next to the waterboy.
But lets face reality -
"The Pitcher will always get the props for winning the game and the TEAM will take the hit for the loss ......"

So its pretty straight forward that the Pitcher is the most valuable player on the team ..
RIGHT ...
wink wink / nod nod

It takes 9 to win and 9 to lose -
PS.
I have seen only a few truely consistent dominatating pitchers and some where late in the game the goods teams / players figure out away to hit off her. :lmao:

 

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As the mother of a freshman pitcher, I agree with hatethedrop's thinking. Dropped 3rd strikes and not staying down to catch the ball create more work for the pitcher.

However, it does take 9 to win/lose a game. The mound is a very lonely place when errors abound! Even ace pitchers need to know that the entire team can field their positions without errors. The older the girls get, the more this holds true.

And what about hitting? Can't win a game if nobody gets home.

 

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Also coming from a pitchers dad. You can't have an awesome pitcher, without an awesome catcher.
A drop ball is the best pitch in softball, with a good catcher (IMHO)
A drop ball with a catcher that can't handle it, is runs for the wrong team

 

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The most valuable player on a team is the one that:

-when the game is on the line and the winning run is on third, 2 outs, you want them coming to bat.

-when the game is on the line and the losing run is on third, 2 outs, you want the ball hit to them.

-when the team is having "one of those games" and things aren't going so well, the kid that keeps picking up her teammates.

-when the season is winding down and you are assessing things, the kid that always brings a smile to your face.

 

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I have seen this question many times. I believe 90% or more people say the pitcher. What if that pitcher doesnt have a good catcher to recieve the ball or call a good game. What if the coach who calls the pitches knows nothing about calling a game. This is a team sport and you need all, it is very true you need good pitching, but if He or She does not have a good fundamental backing she will be just another thrower. If the team cannot hit, how will they win. Give me 9 solid ball players with the chemistry to play together and a heart of a winner. I dont want to put a pitcher ahead of anyone and sometimes teams do this and baby that player, what is that going to do in the long run for her. I seen a young lady pitch last year in the ASA B. This kid to me was one of the best in the tournament, but they did not do so well. I do believe they were young also, BUT if she had more help she would WIN consistently and people would be talking about her.

 

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The most valuable player on a team is the one that:

-when the game is on the line and the winning run is on third, 2 outs, you want them coming to bat.

-when the game is on the line and the losing run is on third, 2 outs, you want the ball hit to them.

-when the team is having "one of those games" and things aren't going so well, the kid that keeps picking up her teammates.

-when the season is winding down and you are assessing things, the kid that always brings a smile to your face.

Best post on the thread. someone finally gets it and dosent type with daddy goggles on.

Tim

 

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Best post on the thread. someone finally gets it and dosent type with daddy goggles on.

Tim

I agree!

After reading this off and on and thinking about it... and beyond 3dm's post...

If I had to rank...
1-catcher
2-pitcher
3-ss,3b,2b,1b,LF,RF,CF (in any order on this rung:cap

Hard to argue with the position(s) that have lots of "put-outs". Just another thought in this endless topic. End all be all is the team unity can dominate super strong positional players. I've had bad/poor/weaker players in the past with +.800 winning percentages.