When Did Crowhop Pitchers Become Exceptable

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Was at one of my first in a long time HS Varsity game this week and saw a crowhopper pitching and getting by with it. Didn't take me but seeing her pitch her first pitch to know she was crowhopping. Nobody else or the ump seemed to mind or have a promblem with it. The awful part was the longer she pitched the worse her crowhopping got. A guy standing nearby said that she was better than any of the other pitchers on the team. I thought really how could this be cause she cheating the batters an the game? Or was she the better crowhopper than the other pitchers? I don't know if she was I left the game after 2 innings and don't know who won or loss(I'm sure the crowhopper won or should have). Makes me think back to when my daughter pitched (many moons ago ;&) crowhopping was an embrassing no-no much less illegal pitching. I guess my question is when did crowhopping become an ok thing to do? I've been absent from softball for some years now and was blindsided by this. Has Softball taken that many steps back since I've been gone? I hope not. I hope umps put a stop to this! Crowhopping should not be aloud in any Softball Game! I don't care how bad coaches think the other pitchers are.

 

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I've always taken exception to crowhoppers. They have never been acceptable in my book!

Anyway, leaping has been pretty much allowed for awhile for the most part. Crowhopping has, too, but maybe not as much.

 

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I think opposing coaches need to make a bigger fuss about getting it called. If they won't crush their smokes or hide their beer between games.

 

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I think opposing coaches need to make a bigger fuss about getting it called. If they won't crush their smokes or hide their beer between games.

Do you feel this way about all ages or is this just for HS kids?

Last year at 10U any time it was brought up the umpires couldn't have cared less and of course the coach was instant satan for complaining about a 10 YO.

Then we had a kid who struggled with keeping that foot dragging, had a coach complain and she was useless the rest of the tournament. She's gotten better this year but I'm still going to have to be cautious when we can use her I think.

 

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Yeah can see why "the leap" can get overlooked. This girl is getting two big push-offs. Which is leaving the batter at a huge disadvantage. She didn't have that much speed on the ball and wasn't consistent with her pitches. But, she was still cheating the batters and the other teams pitcher didn't. I just think if Rules are put in place then they should be followed. If not than anything should be allowed. After that then, it's not really a game or be worth watching. Which is exactly how I felt and why I left the game. Most of these girls put in hard work, practice($parents money$) and many hours of teaching how to play the game and you hate to see someone come in like this and get by with pitching at 35 ft.(guess) and more than likely get beat. I'm trying to remember that HS name and see if they posted the score on here. Be a really sad day if they did!

 

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Most umpires, not all (but close) will not call this.
Don't know why, they just won't call it.
I've had a few say yep it's illegal, but never call it.
Or a better one is they call it, tell the coach what she is doing, then let her go right back to the same illegal pitch and never say another word.
We might as well let them run half way to home and pitch.
Just like some of the slappers that run half way to the mound before they slap.
That's another post

 

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My only problem is the coaches that still teach it with the thought "Ah, they'll only call it once a game. Then she'll be fine the rest of it so do it". That's the mentality that needs to go. If you are a parent and your dd is going to one of those coaches, you are doing her a disservice.

 

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Do you feel this way about all ages or is this just for HS kids?

Last year at 10U any time it was brought up the umpires couldn't have cared less and of course the coach was instant satan for complaining about a 10 YO.

Then we had a kid who struggled with keeping that foot dragging, had a coach complain and she was useless the rest of the tournament. She's gotten better this year but I'm still going to have to be cautious when we can use her I think.

I feel that way about any age. She is pitching to 10U batters, right. Now is the time to be correcting it. She needs totally broken down and completely start all over again to be taught how to do pitch correctly. That is if she really wants to be a pitcher. Being a good pitcher takes alot of time, practice and hardwork. Not just any girl can be a really good pitcher. It just makes it harder for her the older she gets(if she happens to pitch to an ump that will do his job and call illegal pitches on her). If she was a 10U batter she would half to stand at the plate, right. Same goes for pitchers! If everyone continues to overlook her cause she's cute and just 10 yrs old than she's really gonna appreciate the "everyone's" when she's 16 and getting embrassed in front of everybody else when she can't throw a legal pitch.

 

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We might as well let them run half way to home and pitch.

Really Liked this! I'll half to use this one.:lmao:

 

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Last year, as an opposing coach, I called out a crow hop. I was new to travel fastpitch, and didn't realize you call out protest at the end. The umps were freinds of mine, and they explained to me why they never call it. After the game, they asked if I still wanted the protest and they told me that it won't be called until 14U at the earliest. I asked them why weren't they taught right away, and they told me that some coaches take advantage of the leeway. I didn't follow through with the protest.

 

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Brownsfan ... I am not an umpire but I think your friends might not be such good friends! Crowhopping is a judgment call ... it either gets called on the pitch or it doesn't. I know bretman will correct me on my terminology here but in my layman terms, you can protest calls that are misapplication of the rules, and which can be proven out one way or the other later.

 

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Brownsfan ... I am not an umpire but I think your friends might not be such good friends! Crowhopping is a judgment call ... it either gets called on the pitch or it doesn't. I know bretman will correct me on my terminology here but in my layman terms, you can protest calls that are misapplication of the rules, and which can be proven out one way or the other later.

No, we are. They were the ones that taught my dd how to pitch in the beginning. They just know how to seperate job and friendship. We talked about it again the following weekend, at church. It was a legit crowhop, but wasn't getting called at 10U.

 

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No, we are. They were the ones that taught my dd how to pitch in the beginning. They just know how to seperate job and friendship. We talked about it again the following weekend, at church. It was a legit crowhop, but wasn't getting called at 10U.

It makes no sense to me to not call it at the younger levels. So you let them get away with it when they are young? So they grow up to change at what point? I would think it would be hard to break a habit that is formed when they are young.

Thats like telling 6-7 year olds in basketball that its ok to double dribble until they are 12 years old? hmmmmm

 

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We had a game last week where our Senior pitcher was on the mound when she brought the ball and glove together or something to that effect, and it was illegal (I'm clearly not the pro at the intricacies of pitching legality). The opposing coach was nice enough to mention this to his buddy umpire who in the middle of the game, outa nowhere, calls an illegal pitch. He gives no reason afterwards. The pitcher assumes it's because she didn't drag, she has a tendency to do this, though it rarely gets called in games, but she's aware of it. Next pitch, right off the bat, called illegal. Still nothing. Coaches had to request the umpire to speak with the pitcher about what he was calling....again, mid-game. This by no means cost us the game, but really? Going to start calling it mid-game because the other coach said something and then not even mention something to the pitcher or our staff before calling it? Either call it from the get go, or don't. You want to start calling somethign mid-game that she's clearly been doing since the beginning of the game, a little warning would be nice.

 

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1stpitchhitter ... she was probably bringing her hands together more than once which is illegal. While I don't agree that there should be a "warning" instead of a penalty when someone does something illegal at the varsity level, clearly the umpire should have explained to the pitcher (and the coach if he/she aksed) what she did wrong. I've seen this called in 3-4 college games this year (once on my own daughter), and everytime the umpire explained the infraction. If she was doing it all along though, the umpires should have noticed and called it. However, once it was pointed out to them and they were observing it themselves, they had no choice but to continue to call it until she quit doing it.

 

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We had a game last week where our Senior pitcher was on the mound when she brought the ball and glove together or something to that effect, and it was illegal (I'm clearly not the pro at the intricacies of pitching legality). The opposing coach was nice enough to mention this to his buddy umpire who in the middle of the game, outa nowhere, calls an illegal pitch. He gives no reason afterwards. The pitcher assumes it's because she didn't drag, she has a tendency to do this, though it rarely gets called in games, but she's aware of it. Next pitch, right off the bat, called illegal. Still nothing. Coaches had to request the umpire to speak with the pitcher about what he was calling....again, mid-game. This by no means cost us the game, but really? Going to start calling it mid-game because the other coach said something and then not even mention something to the pitcher or our staff before calling it? Either call it from the get go, or don't. You want to start calling somethign mid-game that she's clearly been doing since the beginning of the game, a little warning would be nice.

1stpitch, The point is to win......right?? Anything to get an advantage.....right?? Waiting until the middle of the game may cause the pitcher to give up a couple of hits at a crucial point, thus delivering VICTORY!! Sad what our society has become.

 

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It makes no sense to me to not call it at the younger levels. So you let them get away with it when they are young? So they grow up to change at what point? I would think it would be hard to break a habit that is formed when they are young.

Thats like telling 6-7 year olds in basketball that its ok to double dribble until they are 12 years old? hmmmmm

I agree. I have seen several 14U pitchers use that hop. I have also seen some that took the rec step (or high school) at 10U in an NSA tourney.

 

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1stpitch, The point is to win......right?? Anything to get an advantage.....right?? Waiting until the middle of the game may cause the pitcher to give up a couple of hits at a crucial point, thus delivering VICTORY!! Sad what our society has become.

Yeah, you missed the point....good try though. Unless the umpire was in on the whole mental game strategy (which I doubt), then again, doesn't exactly match up to what I was saying. I don't care that the coach waited until that long, because he probably didn't notice himself. The thread....and anecdote....were both referring to umps.

 

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The biggest thing being allowed for quite some time has been the "replant", Daniel Lawry of Washington and UA's pitcher pushes the envelope on that one. They both start with heel touching the front of the mound, I seen at least 7 illegal pitches called during a college tournament out here in Az. Then went to a league game and seen UA's pitcher get called twice for not being in contact with the rubber, so they are starting to call more illegal pitches these days!!!

 

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At 10U, heard an umpire that said the kids were still learning so they didn't call it...
At 12U, have heard umpires say that if they called the pitcher illegal they would have to call it every pitch and it would take too long.
A lot of the umpires see it, they are either too lazy to call it or don't want the hassle of calling it... either way they are cheating the girls from learning at an early age that what they are doing is wrong. As pitchers get older, it becomes harder to correct bad habits. And, they cheat all of the other kids in the game by not wanting to take the time to make the calls.
On the other end are some of the parents and coaches who say, they are not calling it, so it is fine....
There are things that pitching coaches can do to fix the problem, but first you have to admit you have a problem and if the umpires are too lazy - or dirrelect in their duties - to call it, then they are not going to admit they have the problem.
It just drives the rest of us crazy who knows they are not legal and are being rewarded for it....