Hitting and Hitters Discussion Which Hitting Style is Best?

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Bretman
Absolutely Correct. Good Advice.

Sammy
"Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I view a linear swing as some type of forward body movement DURING the actual swing - kind of a stride and swing combined. This is NOT what the pros in the RightView clips are doing. Both feet are planted and all forward body motion has stopped before the actual swing starts."

If the hands move in a straight line(linear) ?during the swing. It is as you said, a linear swing.

Do you see any of this in the clips with the RVP?

As Bretman stated there is confusion on terms and definitions.

"I only wish they had a companion system (with drills or lessons) showing CLEARLY the way to achieve this type of swing."

I can send you the step by step and some drills for this exact swing if you like. Send me an E-mail and let me know.

 

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Can someone describe the difference between the rotational swing and the linear swing.

 

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ccdteacher
Basically it is the difference in movement.
Linear- any movement in a straight line. Usually forward.
Rotational- movement in a circular motion.

 

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Copper684

Could you give an example of your daughters swing as it is with what you are saying is a linear swing?
When you say linear, do you mean a timing step/stride? Or are you talking about the hands going to the ball in a linear motion.

Just from reading what you have posted, I am getting the impression that your daughter did not ?take a step before trying to simulate what you are seeing with this software. If this is the case, then you might have a situation where her timing is off, her line of sight could be altered and not getting the bat to the plane of the ball. She may also be having trouble with the weight shift due to the forward movement of the front side, and could be too far forward.

This may not be the case, but I am interested to know the differences between the before and after.

 

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I don't think the confusion is necessarily about the definition of linear or rotational. It's more about what is moving in a linear or rotational path, and how to do it. In a pure rotational swing, the forward motion stops, then the body basically rotates around a vertical axis located about the front hip.

In simple terms, from the beginning of the swing (forward bat movement) the arms and hands are "connected" and therefore move with, the upper body (torso). The forward bat movement is caused by the rotation of the hips, NOT throwing the hands to the ball, etc. The hands travel more in a circular path than a linear path, and this IMO is what I see in all the major leaguer's clips in RVP. There is a very good high frame rate slow motion video showing Pete Rose executing this swing. I think it's on Ziggy's site.

Coach Pack - The part I don't understand about linear is how the hands become linear as opposed to circular. Are they "pushed" through the zone? Are the arms and hands disconnected from the body during a linear swing? I used to teach "pushing the hands" to my son when he was very young in an effort to get him to keep the bat head in the zone longer. Also it helped him to finish better with much better extension. After studying the rotational method, I think that disconnecting the hands and arms can lead to bat control problems. Also, the hips and core are much stronger than the arms for this type of activity.

Don't get me wrong - I'm a student of the game and open to any suggestions and discussion. When I first saw the RVP videos, it became very clear to me what the pros were actually doing. Without video, you can see why a lot of younger kids (in baseball, anyway) have an upper-cut swing

 

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Sammy

I think you already have the answer from what you wrote.

If everything is circular, then the hands become linear, you have a broken link from the rotating or circular motion. The only way to do this is to drive or pull. Or as you say push from the back.

 

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If everything is circular, then the hands become linear, you have a broken link from the rotating or circular motion.

Coach Pack - Could you explain this in more detail?

When you say drive or pull, do you mean "drive the hands or pull the hands" with the arms? I've heard of driving off of the back foot for pushing, but I don't advocate that.

 

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Sammy

I think you are stating this as a given fact.

In simple terms, from the beginning of the swing (forward bat movement) the arms and hands are "connected" and therefore move with, the upper body (torso). The forward bat movement is caused by the rotation of the hips, NOT throwing the hands to the ball, etc. The hands travel more in a circular path than a linear path, and this IMO is what I see in all the major leaguer's clips in RVP.

Where I misunderstood, I guess is when you asked...

Coach Pack - The part I don't understand about linear is how the hands become linear as opposed to circular. Are they "pushed" through the zone? Are the arms and hands disconnected from the body during a linear swing?

 

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I think the best way to visualize it is through video. Here is an example clip of a fastpitch player making the switch from linear to rotational mechanics:

http://www.nextlevelhitting.com/images/lindsey_day_1_to_day_6.wmv

Take note of the back elbow as the core rotates with both swings. In the rotational swing, the back elbow stays close to the trunk of the body; this is what allows the bat to stay "connected" and generate more bat speed.

 

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Here is a top down view of Pete Rose. Note how the hands take a circular path during the swing. This is rotational mechanics at its best:

http://www.youthbaseballcoaching.com/mpg/Rose.mpeg

 

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Our team started the RVP this last fall. ?DD was confused and not happy with how her hitting was going. ?Then we went to the Wright State hitting camp on Dec 16th. ?Coach Larabee broke it down very well and all of the girls that were there were having great success in improving their hitting. ?The light bulb came on and DD was off to the races with her hitting again. ?I do not know if they are teaching linear or rotational, but it works for my DD.

So what am I saying? ?
1. ?teachers/coaches/trainers can be teaching the same thing, but how the student learns can and does vary from instructor to instructor. ?It usually isn't the instructors fault, it is just how an individual learns. ?Really good instructors will try to find a way/method/phrase that will trigger the learning.
2. ?The Wright State hitting camp did an excellent job. ?Each step/phase was broken down and the girls worked on each phase until they got it down before moving on to the next phase.

There is one more date left for the Wright State camp. ?It is Feb 10th. ?They told us that was only 10 slots left for the Feb 10 camp when we were at the Dec 16th camp so it might be filled up.

Here is the link to the camp: http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/wrst/sports/w-softbl/auto_pdf/WinterCamp.pdf

Here is a link to the On-line Hitting Academy Library. It has defininitions and illustrations of just about every hitting topic/phrase.

www.hittingacademy.com/ohalibrary/library1.cfm

 

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cshilt

If I may ask, can you tell me how this is a linear swing?(the first one)

 

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Happy New Year all. Took a trip to Ohio. Got sick with a virus. Dang the bad luck. Returned to Texas. Watched OSU in the national championship game. Died. What an ugly game.

Good thread and discussion going on here. In defining a swing, any swing, there are elements of both linear movement and rotational movement of the body.

I like to state that from a swing perspective the only difference between Linear and Rotational swings is hand path. Are the hands moving in a circular manner? (Rotational) or are they moving in a straight line to the ball? (Linear) That is what I look for as a hitting instructor when I get a new student.

Elliott.

 

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cshilt

If I may ask, can you tell me how this is a linear swing?(the first one)

The knob of the bat moves toward the pitcher before the barrel starts to rotate. As Elliot says, the hands are key.

If you want to get into some serious analysis of the rotational swing you can register for the forums at: http://www.englishbeyhitting.com/forums/

 

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lowering the front shoulder, getting rid of the hitch and adding flexion to the front leg helped tremendously

I see the hands dropping toward the ground before the barrel starts to rotate.

Is this not what is happening?

Cshilt
Tell me what you see in this Next Level Clip of L.B.

 

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Wondering when you were going to jump on this topic Elliott!! ?
Sorry I missed you while you were in Ohio. ?Hope your feeling better, and had a good holiday.
Shayne

 

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wvan, Thanks for the hitting website. It is nice to see. For those who can't afford the software to analyze the swings it is at least a reference.

Rotational that you see in the video will generate much more power. You have the bat in the same plane as the ball for longer allowing you to generate more energy that is transferred to it than some of the other methods.

 

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In watching the two Lindsey clips, I would say she still has a long way to go, but at least she's working at it. Day one has a host of problems, out on the front foot, front side flying open, disconnected arms, etc., and just not a very aggressive stance to start with. If you're going to hit for power, you have to be in an athletic position as the swing starts.

Day 6 shows some improvement, but with hands that low at the start of the swing this has "high inside pitch" written all over it for a pitcher. She's a little more aggressive, but notice the L-O-N-G front arm. Thats a classic disconnected swing. But then, you can't expect a Barry Bonds swing after 6 days!

The good part about all this is that it makes people aware that there is a TON of quality video of proper swings that can be studied. Just 10 years ago, this was not the case. Knowing what a good swing looks like is the beginning. If more girls in Ohio would only study these pro baseball swings, we would start to see some tremendous hitters developed.

You DON'T have to buy expensive software to study your swing (RVP, Dartfish). Digital video cameras have fallen dramatically in price, and anyone with a computer running Windows XP can dump their video in and view it with free software. The benchmark pro clips for comparison are all over the internet. It just takes a little studying to get you on your way.

 

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One more cast, let me try it this way

I doubt this hitter felt she had a linear swing or was taught linear mechanics.

Her swing looks to be typical of someone struggling without proper instruction. I do not know of anyone teaching this.

I am sure most of you know what linear mechanics look like when taught. Right?

 

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Talk hitting with one of the best in the country at the Fastpitch Coaches & Players clinic in Kansas City.
February 24th

Steve Englishbey http://englishbeyhitting.com/index.html

Coaches & Players Clinic http://clinic.desotobelles.com