Hitting and Hitters Discussion Which Hitting Style is Best?

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I believe one of the best ways to see how hitting should be done is get a child about 4-5 years old with a bat he can handle and pitch balls to him and see how they do it. you have to do it before they have been trained by the experts.
Don't get me wrong I am not criticizing anyone for what or how they teach because I'm no expert but over a lot of years watching other well intending parents and coaches there are so many things that are preached to children that makes no sense at all, as an example you hear coaches and parents screaming keep your back elbow up when you bat, try that one, get up now and pretend you have a bat in your hand and keep your ELBOW UP and swing that invisible bat. how far did you estimate that pretend ball to go 6-7 feet at the most.

 

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Shayne,

Happy New Year to you. I didnt even get to visit with coach West while I was here. As a matter of fact I need to call him and tell him I am sorry for not getting with him. I had some information to give him so I will have to mail it to him now. Since the bozo wont join the rest of the world on the internet.

Frankly, I was too sick. Stayed in bed most of the time I was in Ohio visiting my parents. Didnt want to spread the virus around to anyone. I am planning a summer visit and hope to stay a couple of weeks in Ohio. Of course my agenda and the wifes will be in conflict but that is nothing new for us. Pretty strange knowing that the season is about to start down here and I am not going to have to go to games. Will probably go to most of them anyway.

Hope the team is shaping up for you both.

Take Care,

Elliott.

 

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cshilt

Post here

 

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ido right view pro and that helps me a ton more then squish the bug but thats just me now.

 

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What kills me is how confusing hitting has become, that someone would refer to there swing as a "Right View Pro" swing. Last time I knew, it was a video analysis system, used in hitting and pitching.
Now, I'm confused.

 

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The RVP software, while being an excellent analysis tool, also features instructional material. Maybe that's what was meant by "using an RVP swing".

The baseball material is put together by Don Slaught, former Major League player and last years batting coach for the Detroit Tigers. He also just happens to be the owner of the company that developed Right View Pro. Slaught's instructional material is geared toward the Major League baseball swing.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, the softball material is put together by Sue Enquist and Mike Candrea.

I think that what makes hitting confusing is that while many instructors might be looking at the same swing, they all seem to have their own terms and cues to describe it. Part of that comes from the natural differences you'll have when several people are describing and analyzing the same complex motion.

The other part comes from instructors that purposely want to make their own systems stand out from the competition. They want to make "their system" unique. People are much less likely to spend their money on "the same old thing", but might be more willing to open their wallet for "new and improved".

Even if you don't have access to RVP, there are so many free video players available for the computer that most anyone can view and analyze their own swing clips. The trick is knowing what to look for. Read, study and test as much information as you can on the subject. Then, when the experts disagree or offer confusing material, use your own video analysis as the "truth detector".

 

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Bretman - you took the words right out of my mouth. Very good explanation of how the same swing can be interpreted differently by so many people.

The beauty of video is that you don't need to use all the old catch-phrases that have confused so many kids for so long. Now all you have to do is show a kid the video and say "This is how McGuire does it". Then video their attempts, and let them compare. They don't need anyone telling them they are doing it wrong, because they are doing their own video analysis. That's over simplified, but pretty much how it works for us.

Old school coaches and parents who are afraid of the new technology and tools available today, and resist change in general, are going to be left behind. Those who embrace it greatly increase the chances for success.

 

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I thought McGuire did it the old fashioned way, you know the one Congress is looking into....

 

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Right View Pro is by far the best diagnostic tool on the market.
Of course, the diagnostic tool is only as powerful as the diagnostician.

 

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lol H-dad! Maybe someone could market "Hitter-in-a-Bottle" for all the 'roid freaks!

 

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No, just seeing all the clinics available, tapes, CD's video feeds, it has just become a big money maker to me. Unless you have fields with 200'-230' it doesn't make a difference, just back up your outfield and it's just a long out. Just shoot the gaps with line drives and give me girls that can drop a bunt when called upon to do the basics and let the pitchers handle the batters with their location pitches.

The kids get so messed up going to different clinics and hearing the latest buzz words of the year, their heads expolode. Each clinic teaches them something different and most can't decipher what to take away from it.

 

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Hilliard.

Lets see if we can break this down even more. What your saying is true. Any coach would want that with any "Style" of hitter.

What this really boils down to is one thing. Swing plane of the bat. What swing plane is going to allow me to put the ball in the gaps and clear a fence now and then if I get a hold of a really good pitch.

Will it be the swing plane that swings down on the ball? Might, if I get lucky enough to hit the lower part of the ball. Will it be the swing plane that swings level at the ball. It might if it finds a hole in the infield. Will it be the swing plane that is slightly upward at contact with the ball?

Of the 3, I personally think the last one is best.

What we are all seeing is a change in attitude by coaches at the higher levels of softball. They now understand that the athlete that came to them 20 years ago and the athlete that comes to them now are 2 different species. Differences?

Stronger, bigger, faster, and with more skill sets than previous softball players. The evolution of the game. So, If I have that athlete with all of that skill and strength how would I want them to hit the ball?

In a word. Hard. ?Like men do, because with a 200 foot fence, its not that far away for the elite female athlete. Much better for the outfielder to run out to the fence chasing a ball than run forward or into the gap to catch that ?weak or even hard hit line drive that isnt rising in trajectory. Would rather see a ball rising over a shortstop or second basemans head than whistle by their head. ? ?I want to attack the gap between the fence and the outfield with my hitters. That is the area of most damage.

Hitting is about creating the correct swing plane and making solid contact with that swing plane. The best in the world do it 3 out of 10 times, if they are elite, and they are not swinging down or level at the ball.

Elliott. ?

 

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Never before has there been so much information available - all thanks to the internet. I won't say it's free, but most everyone has at least a dial-up internet connection. Some of this information is good, some bad. As with anything, it's up to the parent to figure that out. You can't expect a 12 yr. old to know, for instance, what scapula loading is, or even comprehend the concept. But I think the parents who take a genuine interest in this stuff and commit to working with their kids give them a distinct advantage. Just because someone puts on a "clinic" doesn't mean you will come away with the Holy Grail of skills. You have to take a little of this, a little of that, then put it all together in a way that YOUR kid will understand.

My DD once had a pitching coach that had these little phrases for almost everything. To demonstrate a certain spin, this coach would use the phrase "like starting a lawn mower". Well, my DD just looked at the coach confused, because the pull rope on our lawnmower was up on the handle! I knew exactly what the coach meant, but she didn't.

My point is that parents (should) spend the most time with their kids. Learn how to do it yourself so you can help teach it to your kids. If you as a parent don't know what is correct, how do you know if your DD is being taught correctly by a coach? Don't wait until a DI college coach tells your 17 yr. old DD that her hitting skills are too weak for the college level.

 

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Sammy Stated:

[highlight]You can't expect a 12 yr. old to know, for instance, what scapula loading is, or even comprehend the concept.[/highlight]

This is where I am going to disagree with you. You can expect them to understand scapula loading and they should understand it. I have students who are 10 who understand it and feel it when its done correctly. Its how you communicate it to the player that promotes understanding and comprehension of any concept with hitting or pitching. I had kids who wrestled at the age of 5 in my kids club, who understood moves and concepts of take downs. If you can explain it, then show it, they get it, and will perform the movements with enough reps. One is a Texas state champion today at the age of 9. Started when he was 3 with his older brothers teaching him.

I think we as coaches and parents have to understand that kids today communicate and comprehend much better than we did as kids. They start with a much larger knowledge base than we did as kids. We as adults, I feel, under estimate the mental abilities of the young athlete and person. We think certain concepts are beyond them. More often than not the adult who thinks in this manner is wrong. These kids are sponges and absorb a lot more than we ever did as a kid.

One of my prime examples I have always used in this argument. Look at what Earl Woods accomplished with Tiger. He was on Carson at the age of 5 hitting a driver better than most men. Earl did an excellent job as an instructor as well as a father. My bet is he was an excellent communicator of how the swing should feel as well as how to hit it hard.

Elliott.

 

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ifubuildit - I obviously didn't word that very well. The point that I was trying to make was that young kids ON THEIR OWN are not expected to understand a concept UNLESS it is explained and demonstrated to them in a manner that they can understand. It's NOT a comprehension problem by the kid, it's a communication problem of the adult.

The point I was trying to make was that most kids today are quite capable of understanding very complicated principles. It just takes an adult with good communication skills, understanding and dedication to transfer that knowledge. The Tiger Woods example you mentioned is a great example of that. Tiger's dad knew better than anyone how to communicate with his son, and knew he could teach his son better than anyone.

I agree 100% that kids today are better prepared - both mentally and physically - than we were as kids. My 13 yr. old has great comprehension of Englishbey's principles. I had to watch the videos several times before some of the concepts sunk in. He's an 8th grader studying skeletal and muscular movements in science class, so the loading, stretch-shortening principles, etc. are just an extension of his school work. How well he learns these principles may well depend on whether I handicap him with my lack of teaching skills! Does anyone have Earl Wood's phone number?

 

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Hmmm.....Now I'm really confused. :-?

 

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LADY_KNIGHTS, what age group is your team? Did you use any specific teaching method for hitting going into this past summer, and if so, what was your opinion/success rate? Did anything in particular work better than something else?

This thread is about 9 months old, so in 9 months time, most should have seen some change in their hitter's performance. Last summer, in baseball, my son was getting a steady diet of low outside curves, generally moving down and away (right hand batter). Our project over this past winter and early spring was to focus on being able to "go get" that pitch. In late innings with a tie score, and a runner on 2nd, a blooper to right that falls in somewhere can win the game. We worked on body tilt, good vision for pitch selection, and "widening his hitting zone" somewhat. He has great swing mechanics at this point, so the next logical step was to work on "manufacturing" hits by getting the bat on close pitches.

All the work over the winter paid off. Although he had a reputation as a power hitter, he became more of a complete hitter and more valuable to his team, especially in close games. His OBP increased dramatically. The drawback was that in some year-end tournaments he became the "most intentionally walked" player on his team!

 

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I will be coaching a 15U team this year. ?My preference has always been "Rotational", with a wide stance and no step, and my daughter has always clobbered the ball. ?

This year I tinkered with her swing, trying to add a little step or toe touch, trying to achieve more power with a weight shift before rotation, and she struggled. ?She did hit some nice line shots and some deep fly balls, but she was doing that before, but with more consistency. ?

I did not tinker with any of my hitters this past year, but at times we did struggle hitting the ball, so I have made it my #1 priority this year to become a hitting "Guru" and absorb as much knowledge on hitting as I can possibly take in. ?The biggest problem I see trying to absorb this info is that everyone is teaching the same swing mechanics, but use different terminolgy or "catch phrases" to teach, and it can become confusing.

Mike Epstein's techniques are the closest thing I have come across, to the way I have always taught hitting. ?I also agree with alot of the info that Jack Mankin has on his Batspeed site. ?Not to familiar with Englishbey, because he is a little stingy on his site about "free" info.

Just trying to take in as much as possible and sort through the "BS" to get to the "Heart" of it.

 

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Lady Knights we switched to the Right View Pro system 2 years ago for both of my DD's. ?It took a couple of months to get it down pat, but it made a difference. ?Both hit well and with power at times before the lessons. ?Now you can really see the ball jump off of the bat. ?We noticed it right at the first lesson with the instructor. ?I beleive the RVP system, as well as some others, will make a diffrence. ?Older DD hit some out of parks with fences at 210 and 200. ?She was only 15. ?Youngest was 13 and hit a few at the base of 200 foot fence. ?I suggest you take your DD to one of these instructors to see first hand the difference that it can make. ?Just MHO.

 

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Ah, yes - the wide stance w/ no stride - I remember my DD's hitting coach using that on DD a few years back to isolate some problems she was having. It was like magic - she just seemed to focus more on the ball without the lower half moving. She exaggerated her scapula loading to compensate somewhat for the power lost in the "no stride". As time went by though, she gradually added back the stride. The bonus was that when she combined that nice upper body load with the stride, her power really increased. She has a few college homeruns to show for it now.

I agree 100% about the jargon used. Some hitting & pitching coaches seem to have their own language. They use all these catch-phrases that, more often than not, leave their students confused. Every kid is different. Some communicate visually (the "show me" group), where others want things explained (the "verbal" group). A good coach recognizes the difference in each student, and uses a technique that suits each individual student best. Actually, that was the spark that got me started in learning about hitting. Call me picky - or something worse - but I just got tired of paying big bucks to people who, in my eyes, should have been a lot better at passing on their knowledge. I'm finding out that some of them were even teaching the WRONG things anyway! Doing the math, I figured investing the money into a "self-help" program would be more beneficial in the long run. I invested in Right View Pro, Englishbey's hitting DVD's, and countless hours reading and watching video - most of it free on the internet.

There are a lot of excellent hitting coaches, most charging a fair price for their time. The problem is, teaching hitting is NOT a "one size fits all" proposition. Every teaching/communication style is a little different, and finding someone who communicates well with YOUR DD is worth every dollar paid. The trick is finding one before you've gone too far down the road.

The dividends for my own kids has been awesome. Money well spent, and in the process, I became educated about hitting concepts - not a guru, but just a student willing to learn all I can. Epstein, Englishbey and Mankin all teach very solid concepts. They will never agree that each other's teachings are 100% correct, but I take that as a GOOD thing. The more they disagree and discuss things, the more info there is to sort through and find what works for you personally.

I am ALL FOR lively hitting discussions. I will be the first to admit that what works for one may not work for another. For those obsessed (me) with hitting principles, discussions are a valuable tool, if for no other reason than helping youth softball/baseball players improve.