Why?

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...wins baby! ?parents/coaches want wins, by any means necessary...and we DO play travel ball, which means we want to win too...and our DD's want to win as well...come on people, if we didn't care about winning, play rec

Well said statman. This is what we all think but are to PC to say it out loud (well except for maybe DicePlayedoutTheTruth). THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH WANTING TO WIN!!!!! I don't know who said it before in this thread or another, but the teams that don't care about winning are not winnning. Just because you win doesn't mean you can't do it with class. Also, if you don't recruit your OWN kids, someone else will!!!!

I also have new respect for redrover. Impressive pot of stew you stirred up with only ONE word..."WHY?" Nice.

 

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There are situations - like wkends off - not going to Nationals - etc. that are different than the question that was ask. The issue in MHO is what are we teaching the players? If you commit to something, you should finish it. If you didn't do enough research, or things haven't gone as well as you would have liked with your current team, make the best of it and find a new team next season. The lack of ethics in the way SOME teams go out of their way to recruit girls already commited to a team, sends a dangerous long term message to the players we are supposed to be teaching life lessons as well as softball. Hard work and teamwork are what we should be emphasizing. If the lesson learned is that all you have to do is change teams (companies) to achieve success, we are doing a disservice to these players.
The original question says it very well - Why? If your a good team, are well coached, why do you need a player from another team. What does this tell your current players? They don't measure up?
I doubt anything will change because of this thread - if you didn't have ethics before - you still don't.

 

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vstorm,

there's a lot of parity out there in softball these days....except for the few showcase teams, NO team is strong 1-9 + bench....most teams go 6 deep, maybe....and i'm not even talking about pitching...so, IF a strong player was available, not as a starter for the weekend (most coaches would be subbing them) but as a hired-gun sub, they are going to take her. ethics aside, teams want to better themselves, and kids want to play with a winning team...of course feelings DO get hurt along the way, but sometimes they get hurt even when a player isn't recruited/borrowed. What about the other parents who made the committment? my own DD would sit if she knew a stud was at home eating chips instead of helping them win a berth/trophy/acclaim....if your DD isn't willing to sit to make the team better, why are we playing travel?

 

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Ray - My DD coaches now. My point isn't about picking someone up when they would be sitting home. It's the blatent in season recruiting. When a player/parents commit to a team - that should be it. I understand everyone is a free agent - how about inviting a player you're interested in to your tryouts. If you have a better situation for that player, then they'll come ask you when your tryouts are. Obviously, travel is about winning, but it's also about teaching players about the life that's ahead of them. What % of girls in travel actually play college ball? It's a great goal that we try to help them achieve. However, we owe them more.

 

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i get ya, and i was referring to players being "off" than actually being recruited during the season....it's always a sticky situation with the other

 

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I wonder if the parents of a kid that worked at ABC computer company ever got the goo when Microsoft called to see if they were interested in joining the big club? My bet is probably not. The ones that seem to get most upset in these matters may in fact be the ones who never get asked..... just thinkin out loud.


Hey Statman, I like your style. Winning does matter. People can say what they want but in the world of travel fastpitch softball folks do want to win. theres nothing wrong with that. We have had people ask players on our team to come join them for years now. I guess thats what happens when people see hard working kids play the game. I have always been of the opinion that if a better oppertunity exists for one of them then go ahead. Fourtunately I still have all or most that I started with and I have never, not once asked a player to come join us. I figure they know where we are, and if they are interested we are only a phone call away. Having said that we have received a number of phone calls over the years. That being said we have never added a player mid stream from outside our organization and more then likely would not unless we had some injuries. Even at that it we would look for a player who is not currently playing. I would personally be wary of a player who left another team to join ours because it may just be a matter of time until something is not just right for them in our dugout. It takes some time to build team chemistry and its always best to see how your team handles advirsity as different things pop up. For example we lost our number three hitter a few weeks back at the Capitol City tournament. She was hitting just under .500 at the time. A number of other players stepped up to fill those shoes and as we look forward to getting her back (maybe this weekend) we will be better overall because they worked it out. Competition is a wonderful thing !!!

 

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we have all seen this for years now. why is anyone ever surprised. I do not agree with this practice but it happens

but good players get noticed and parking lots are public access areas as far as I know. there is nothing wrong with letting someone know that you think they are a nice player. if they are happy where they are, then so be it. if not then I guess they can consider the oppertuntiy for themselves.

Well, I can see you don't have a clue what your talking about. One minute you say you don't condone it then the next you say its okay? ?:-? Maybe it just depends on if your the one approaching the player or if its one of your players being approached. ?

 

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The first time i would pick up a player and play them in front of a regular,should be the last game i coach.I would love to have a couple good players to go with what i already have, but these girls have been loyal to me so i will be loyal to them win or lose.

Best post on this thread IMO. You can play to win and you can win without turning your back on players who have given you everything they have for almost a year or more.

Why would anyone even want to play for somebody like this? If you have ever jumped ship midseason, I hope when the coach recruits somebody to replace you that you remember you were recruited to replace someone.

As far as nationals, please ask at tryouts if the team you are planning to play for is going to attend. If not, find a team that will be playing. I don't care how a coach spins it, if you join a healthy team for nationals, you WILL be taking somebody's spot. If you can live with knowing that a player who has been with the team all year long will be sitting just so you can have a nationals experience, more power to you.

 

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[quote author=choosenone link=1215652755/0#3 date=1215661133]we have all seen this for years now. why is anyone ever surprised. I do not agree with this practice but it happens

but good players get noticed and parking lots are public access areas as far as I know. there is nothing wrong with letting someone know that you think they are a nice player. if they are happy where they are, then so be it. if not then I guess they can consider the oppertuntiy for themselves.

Well, I can see you don't have a clue what your talking about. One minute you say you don't condone it then the next you say its okay? ?:-? Maybe it just depends on if your the one approaching the player or if its one of your players being approached. ?
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not really sure why I am being personally attacked here but I will do my best to explain. while I am sure that most others get it I will break it down for those who do not... here goes:


umm lets see first I say that 'we have all seen this for years now. why is anyone ever surprised" I'm guessing that this part did not confuse anyone.

next I stated that "I do not agree with this practice, but it happens" again I guess we can all agree that it happens, but only I can confirm that I do not agree with it. take my word for it, I do not agree with it. not sure why but this sems unclear to some.

now lets examine the second post. ?

the first part is not too confusing: "but good players get noticed and parking lots are public access areas as far as I know" I think that we would all agree that parking lots are generally public access areas, and that sometimes good players get noticed there. I think that I have even handed out a few high fives to good players from opposing teams in the past in parking lots....but I digress.

next: ?"there is nothing wrong with letting someone know that you think they are a nice player." not really sure what I can say to explain this other then it is rather obvious.

next: "if they are happy where they are, then so be it. if not then I guess they can consider the oppertunity for themselves" ? my guess is that this one is the line that opened me up to a personal assualt. now if you read this for what it is then most would agree it is kind of accurate,maybe even border line commonsense. however, if you look at this as thought there is some hidden (DaVinchi Code) message inside of it then it could be misconstrude as an evil attempt to contridict ones self and allow ones true feeling to seep to the surface unknowingly. for those of you who took it as the later I wish you well. for everyone else thank you for wasteing the past few minutes of your life as I offered up my best explanation of a few simple comments on the ofc forum.


ibiti, ibiti, ibiti...thats all folks

 

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[quote author=choosenone link=1215652755/0#3 date=1215661133]we have all seen this for years now. why is anyone ever surprised. I do not agree with this practice but it happens

but good players get noticed and parking lots are public access areas as far as I know. there is nothing wrong with letting someone know that you think they are a nice player. if they are happy where they are, then so be it. if not then I guess they can consider the oppertuntiy for themselves.

Well, I can see you don't have a clue what your talking about. One minute you say you don't condone it then the next you say its okay? ?:-? Maybe it just depends on if your the one approaching the player or if its one of your players being approached. ?
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Now I don't have a clue what is being talked about. It seems the two quotes from choseone are talking about different situations. The first quote is recruiting players, the second is just complimenting a players and planting a seed for next year's tryouts. I compliment other teams players all the time with and without their parents around. That doesn't mean I want them to play for me next week (next year? ?:). It seems there is a more personal rift between you and choseone that we are not privy too :-?


(man, I better not get the eyeballs)

 

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Ringer I feel as thought I just got poked in the eye.

btw were you lost by my explaination or is it somewhat clear as mud now. remember I did my best to employ my evil jedi mind trick on everyone.

 

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No, I didn't even see your explanation. Look at the post times. We must have been typing at the same time and you hit "post" a second before I did.

 

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Thanks to everyone that has posted. I have gotten some good insight and have also now seen it from a slightly different point of view. I have no problem with coaches telling players that they did a good job in the parking lot after a game and even inviting them to come tryout for their team in the fall. I have a problem with coaches walking up and tyring to trash the current team and coaches and then telling them that the grass is greener on their side of the field, and the player should make a switch. The good thing about this player and her parents is that they politely said no and have no intentions of leaving the team.

I do want to make a couple points clear. This is a player who is very happy with her siutation, she plays all of the time, her skills have gotten better, the team wins, but hasn't won a major tournament. All of the players have gotten a lot of attention from college coaches and all of them are planning on playing in college at this time. The team is going to nationals and the team hasn't had a weekend off since the first weekend in June. So it wasn't an "I see that you have the weekend off" call.

I understand it is all about winning and I want to win as much as the next guy. But isn't travel ball also about the development of the players and them getting better and maybe just maybe getting recruited?

Softball is about winning, but it is also about life lessons, it is about hard work,dedication, improving skills, competition, teamwork, and sometimes it is about keeping kids out of trouble and off the streets. Softball is about a lot of things............the list could go on for a very long time.

Thanks again for all of the responses. It is great!

 

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no problem. sorry that you wasted the 3 or 4 minutes that it took you to read my explain / response. hopefully I will never have to do that again. under the circumstances it just seemed...necassary.

 

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Now I don't have a clue what is being talked about. It seems the two quotes from choseone are talking about different situations. The first quote is recruiting players, the second is just complimenting a players and planting a seed for next year's tryouts. I compliment other teams players all the time with and without their parents around. That doesn't mean I want them to play for me next week (next year? ?:). It seems there is a more personal rift between you and choseone that we are not privy too :-?


(man, I better not get the eyeballs)

:

 

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Why can't anyone spell-----"OPPORTUNITY"

 

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thats what a good dayton city school edumacation will get cha. thanks for the correction mr. head.

 

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Isn't it Mr. Hand?? ?;D Fast Times at Ridgemont High

 

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I'm so wasted! (Jeff Spicoli, NOT Mr. Hand)...he thought everyone was on dope!