ASA Tournament 2011 ASA 16u State Tourney June 23-26

[default]

@pickledad:

Thank you for your acknowledgment that I didn't say anything relating to your "King" analogies. We are good from this end.

That's cool, appreciate it .... I would tell you that I would love to meet you and say hello in Findlay (b/c I would), but I am not sure that that would be a positive, at this point, lol. Good luck in Toledo.

 

[default]

Good! Now both of you go to your rooms! Had to chime in there! I also hate this rule, we are coming to ASA states to play the best of the best and your two teams along with the other "blacked" out teams are just that right now. Its a shame that we wont have the opportunity to play any of you at that time!

 

[default]

@pickledad:

Thank you for your acknowledgment that I didn't say anything relating to your "King" analogies. We are good from this end.

But it's good to be "KING"

 

[default]

OK....the last 3 pages of posts have been fun and all, BUT.......it still doesn't tell me when we're playing on Thursday (which, in case no one noticed, is only a week away). BTW, not trying to take away from the dispute over the fairness of excluding teams that already won a berth. I would rather play the best to see how our girls stack up. Doesn't seem fair to penalize a team for being winners.

 

[default]

I have no dog in this fight but there are two sides to this with varying opinions. From those who are upset it's not about the opportunity to earn a berth but the lack of possible recruitment opportunities. Although we all know of the recruitment possibilities that arise, this is not a recruitment tool for ASA, its about sending the top Ohio ASA teams to Nationals. If you have teams that have already secured berths knocking out top contenders in early bracket play, there is the possibility that lesser teams secure those bids from passing them down. Again this is a tourney that awards a berth to the Nationals and should be ran to accomplish putting the best teams there, not about recruitment, which is of no real benefit to ASA.

 

[default]

I have no dog in this fight but there are two sides to this with varying opinions. From those who are upset it's not about the opportunity to earn a berth but the lack of possible recruitment opportunities. Although we all know of the recruitment possibilities that arise, this is not a recruitment tool for ASA, its about sending the top Ohio ASA teams to Nationals. If you have teams that have already secured berths knocking out top contenders in early bracket play, there is the possibility that lesser teams secure those bids from passing them down. Again this is a tourney that awards a berth to the Nationals and should be ran to accomplish putting the best teams there, not about recruitment, which is of no real benefit to ASA.

It is about recruitment... but it is also about playing the top competition to get better. In MC Madness' case... they aren't using an Ohio berth. They earned theirs at Eastern Nationals last August and have been signed up for States since March. Getting dumped this late doesn't allow us to find anything close to the competition level we would see in Findlay. How can you say that is OK?

 

[default]

This same thing happened at our tournament in k/c 18u gold qualifyer this past weekend. The Indiana Magic was the only team left in the winners bracket in a straight double elimination tournament. They had already won their berth and thus were not even suppose to be playing in the tournament. When we got to the last 3 teams fighting for 2 berths the Magic was deemed ineligible and packed up and went home. The announcement was made right in the middle of our game and then we packed up and went home too.. (Which was the act of --?-- that actually allowed me to make my flight home) Now, neither one of our teams can play in any more qualifyers and we will be playing each other, lots of friendlies, showcases, and other non asa gold qualifyers..Re-arranging schedules at this time is a nightmare, and it's also upsetting that we will not be able to play against this caliber of competition in this type of setting until nationals. Straight double elimination tournaments are brutel. It's very easy math--half of the teams are on the road by Saturday afternoon. (just my .03 cents--price of inflation pickledad)

 

[default]

It is about recruitment... but it is also about playing the top competition to get better. In MC Madness' case... they aren't using an Ohio berth. They earned theirs at Eastern Nationals last August and have been signed up for States since March. Getting dumped this late doesn't allow us to find anything close to the competition level we would see in Findlay. How can you say that is OK?

Not sure I said it was "OK" and I understand the recruiting possibilities, but if I am a team vying for a bid to nationals i don't want to get knocked out by a team that has qualified which allows a team not quite as good as mine get the berth. Agreed timing is pretty crappy.

 

[default]

But it's good to be "KING"

Ask LeBron

 

[default]

Not sure I said it was "OK" and I understand the recruiting possibilities, but if I am a team vying for a bid to nationals i don't want to get knocked out by a team that has qualified which allows a team not quite as good as mine get the berth. Agreed timing is pretty crappy.

In NCAA Basketball March Madness .... they call that a bracket buster, somebody stays home that should have gone, but in Elimination Bracket play, it can be as simple as bad luck on the draw.

Can't say I like it overall, as I think the ASA State Championship should included all comers, but I "understand" the dilemma, I guess.

The showcase aspect is a collateral benefit, not the intended purpose of the tournament. Even that is a diminished benefit, as stronger teams filter out.

Tough situation ......

 

[default]

Is this the way that it is handled in other states? How are you to prepare for nationals when you are not allowed to enter into some of the most competitive tournaments in your age bracket? What are the teams that qualified supposed to do, rearrange half their schedule? Play in USSSA or NSA tournaments? We all know that darn near every ASA tournament (besides showcases) are qualifiers of some sort. Should the tidalwave or Lasers Scarlet be held out of all ASA qualifiers because they may prevent some unfortunate team from earning their ENQ? :lmao:

 

[default]

If ASA States is going to be later in the tournament season and continue to present one of the better local recruiting opportunities available, maybe in the future they can create a pool for qualified teams and they can play round robin "friendlies". This would allow everyone to sign up for states, then if you qualify you get put in that pool and if not, you battle for the berth(s) with those still looking to go to ASA/USA. Everyone gets to play in states, noone is out a weekend of play because of last minute qualifications, etc.

I know...I have over simplified the situation to some degree, but I agree with lots of the many sides out there about how this is impacting everyone, including colleges who only have so many days to see the best Ohio has to offer. There should be a way to make it work.

Best of luck to everyone and congrats to those who have already earned their trip to ASA/USA.

 

[default]

@CNW211:

I actually think your idea is great. I've been puzzling in my mind how we could put something together like that on a field close enough to ASA 16u States this year to get some college attention. But since the winner of the Region 9 closed qualifier won't know they are indeed the winner until late Sunday, I don't see how it is feasible to throw this together for the coming week.

But I do agree that if ASA 16u States plays after the Region 9 and Dayton Metro qualifiers next year it would be fair to have a field reserved at the 16u States site to allow the berth holders some exposure to the college coaches.

 

[default]

@CNW211:

I actually think your idea is great. I've been puzzling in my mind how we could put something together like that on a field close enough to ASA 16u States this year to get some college attention. But since the winner of the Region 9 closed qualifier won't know they are indeed the winner until late Sunday, I don't see how it is feasible to throw this together for the coming week.

But I do agree that if ASA 16u States plays after the Region 9 and Dayton Metro qualifiers next year it would be fair to have a field reserved at the 16u States site to allow the berth holders some exposure to the college coaches.

Just a thought to add ... because, I like the idea as a compromise also .... what about two Tournament Brackets that eventually collide for the championship?: a) the Qualified, b) the Qualifiers? .... play those brackets out as if separate tournaments, then play each other afterwards for the State Championship ..... an "and one" or the "final final" ......?

The pluses would be that EVERYONE is there for the exposure, which benefits everyone. Also, EVERYONE gets to actually compete for the ASA State Championship.

So .....

* The qualifiers are bracketed off to battle it out for their 4 berths without getting knocked out by the previously ASA qualified, and they still get their shot against the best Ohio has to offer without any second guessing?

* The qualified are bracketed off for some tough competition against each other (round robin?), the survivor of which still gets their shot at the ASA State title, against the winnier of the qualifier bracket?

You get exposure because the best teams aren't dragging recruitiers off to other cities, your additional 4 berths get resolved without disruptions from previously qualified teams, plus you get a unified champion?

By the time the teams that earn berths fight their way through against 50+ teams, and are happy with their berths though, they may just want to go get a good meal and some sleep though, lol ..... just a thought.

 

[default]

So, does the 2011 16U ASA Ohio State Champions have to have an asterisk like Roger Maris's homerun record did??? Further, I hope that the D1 coaches that were planning to attend next weekend don't run away and hide!!! There are some EXCELLENT teams and players left playing that weekend!! ie...as of this posting, 2 of the top 3 teams at the Dayton Metro haven't qualified yet and will be attending the state tournament...

 

[default]

@sportsgal:

I doubt any college coaches will change their plans based upon the four teams that won't be allowed to play 16u ASA States. It's just a pretty big loss to those four teams (whomever turns out to be the 4th after this weekend) not to be able to play in front of the college coaches.

 

[default]

@Cgs
I fully understand your dismay. If my dd's team would have finished with the championship in the Dayton Metro, I would be extremely upset because she hasn't inked a scholarship yet. I wonder if some of the backlash from this ruling will affect those early qualifiers next year. We didn't see very many college coaches at the Dayton Metro, so the teams that really need the exposure might forego the qualifiers to ensure they play in state where there are a large number of college coaches in attendance!!

 

[default]

@Cgs
... We didn't see very many college coaches at the Dayton Metro, so the teams that really need the exposure might forego the qualifiers to ensure they play in state where there are a large number of college coaches in attendance!!

Why should teams forego qualifiers to avoid getting a berth? They can always decline it or give it up...

 

[default]

Boy what a crappy schedule. I guess my players won't be getting much sleep. Looks like we are not alone. Done at around 10PM, hour drive back and forth to the park and then play again at 0800. That means most of my team will be going on less than 6 hours sleep!

 

[default]

So after all that - we do play a team that has already qualified......... - did they change their mind - I am ok either way but just wondering

Coach Murph
Championship Fastpitch