Fall ball/high school/Allowed to play?

Discussion in 'High School Softball' started by DynastyFastpitch, Aug 10, 2018.

  1. Stedman00

    Stedman00 Active Member

    4 person rule applies fall of 9th grade. Because they then make the school team in spring.
     
  2. Captain_Thunder

    Captain_Thunder Well-Known Member Staff Member

    They are not actually on the team until they play in a game or a scrimmage!
     
    01softballmom likes this.
  3. Stedman00

    Stedman00 Active Member

    But the minute they are on the team in the spring, they could have violated the rule the preceding fall. It applies the minute they start 9th grade.
     
  4. Stedman00

    Stedman00 Active Member

    here's an excerpt from 2018 rules.

    Non-Interscholastic Softball Teams formed for FALL softball leagues may have no more than FOUR players from any one school on the same team. Included in this number are freshmen, JV and varsity players from the previous year’s roster. Teams that form for SPRING and SUMMER softball may only have FOUR players from any one school on the same team until Friday prior to Memorial Day. Between the Friday prior to Memorial Day and July 31, any number of players from any one school may be on the same non-school team. Please read the section later in this manual “Frequently Asked Questions” to get further in-depth information on Non-Interscholastic softball. Coaches have their own restrictions that limit them to 10 days of coaching/instruction between June 1 and July 31. Please note in this regulation that although teams may play in excess of the 50% limitation between the Friday prior to Memorial Day and July 31, 2018, school coaches may not COACH them until June 1, 2018.

    The part that people all miss is the minute the player is on the travel ball squad and playing together in say Aug, Sept, practicing together all winter, etc, That roster cannot have more than 4 players on it that will be playing together on sanction school roster come February until eliminated from playoffs.
     
    MadT likes this.
  5. Captain_Thunder

    Captain_Thunder Well-Known Member Staff Member

    You just proved my point - The first line of what you wrote says "From Previous Year's Roster"...….
    If they were not part of the school's roster the previous year - it doesn't matter. They are not officially on the team until they participate in a scrimmage....
     
    01softballmom and First2Third like this.
  6. Stedman00

    Stedman00 Active Member

    actually, it reads as freshman, jv and varsity players.... that means current freshman and JV and varsity players from previous years rosters. Sorry, But they are under the 4 person rule. Go ahead have 5 girls on travel team together, and have them all on same school roster come spring, see how many games said school can forfeit.
     
  7. Softball Dad

    Softball Dad Member

    This is from the WWW.OHSAA.ORG The Ohio High School Athletic Association web site. It also states that the rules apply to students grades 7-12 regardless if they played freshman, jv, or varsity.
    upload_2018-9-1_23-49-12.png
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2018
  8. Softball Dad,

    On point #2, it says a limit of 4 individuals on the team that YOU coach. So that would mean the high school coach. Right? What if a parent wanted to coach the team? Would the rule apply to him/her as well? Like someone said in a previous post, arent there high school teams in the Sinclair winter weekend tournament each year? You almost need a lawyer to understand this because it seems there are different ways to read/interpret it. I think JoeA is a lawyer. Joe, where are you? lol
     
  9. MadT

    MadT Member

    Indoor and fall leagues are interpreted differently.
     
  10. softballdad14

    softballdad14 New Member

    So if you have 5 girls that are freshman in the fall, on the same travel team, one of them would be ineligible to play school ball, or all 5?
     
  11. Stedman00

    Stedman00 Active Member

    step #1 - According to OSHAA, winter ball is entirely different sport and doesn't apply.

    5 freshman on same travel team in Fall of 2018. Play fall ball and practice together all fall and winter, all attend Good Grades High in Fall of 2018. They cannot all be on Good Grades High spring softball team, come Feb 2019. 1 of the 5 cannot make the cut. I believe the penalty is forfeit of all games where rule was violated. As far as who coaches the fall team, it really does not matter, the girls are on the same team. Be it HS coach, parent, friend neighbor, etc. DOES NOT MATTER!

    Hope this is now as clear as mud. The part where most people are confused is that it's almost like a retroactive roster tally. fall of say 2018, directly affects spring of 2019. And next part is freshmen - people think they are not on school team yet in that fall, so do whatever in fall ball. They are considered part of school team effective day 1 of 9th grade, at least for the sake of fall ball and the 4 person rule.
     
  12. Captain_Thunder

    Captain_Thunder Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Can't wait until a school system is sued because Little Suzie's mom didn't let her play on a Fall Ball team because 4 girls from her class were already on the team. Now the coach doesn't pick her for the school team & Mommy is Mad!!! If only we could invent a Time Machine to know what the coach was going to do 6 months in advance......SMH
     
  13. Stedman00

    Stedman00 Active Member

    I guess she could have found different summer team that plays together in the fall.

    Along the same lines is the school that has sport X fundraising all winter, expects players to sell stuff. Come tryouts in spring, player Y sold umpteen items, doesn't make any (JV or Var) team for that sport. That's when people really start getting upset.
     
  14. finfan365

    finfan365 Active Member

    This notation states part of a "school team" the previous year, meaning their grade 8 year. They should be fine until sophmore year.
     

    Attached Files:

  15. Stedman00

    Stedman00 Active Member

    unfortunately, that is not accurate. it applies beginning on fall of Freshman year, and then of course spring of freshman year.
     
  16. finfan365

    finfan365 Active Member

    Do you know this based on past experience, or from confirmation via OHSAA? Not trying to argue, I just can't see how that can be the end result of the written rule.

    They've never been on a roster as Freshman, therefore shouldn't be counted in the 50% rule until fall of 2019 the way I would interpret.

    Then again, people have stated "winter or indoor" softball is treated differently also, and an entire HS team can go to indoor tournaments like Sinclair, but I have not seen that rule specifically addressed either so...
     
  17. Captain_Thunder

    Captain_Thunder Well-Known Member Staff Member

    It also says a Student isn't part of the team until they play in a game or scrimmage. I think you are giving your opinion on the wording, just like many others.
    You are not part of the team until mid March or later, once you have participated in a game or scrimmage. How can what happens before that be recognized by anyone? If you have written confirmation from OHSAA, please provide it!
     
    01softballmom likes this.
  18. Mark1951mazak

    Mark1951mazak New Member

  19. Stedman00

    Stedman00 Active Member

    Here you go right out of the 2018 rules: page 13 of 41

    Non-Interscholastic Softball Teams formed for FALL softball leagues may have no more than FOUR players from any one school on the same team. Included in this number are freshmen, JV and varsity players from the previous year’s roster. Teams that form for SPRING and SUMMER softball may only have FOUR players from any one school on the same team until Friday prior to Memorial Day. Between the Friday prior to Memorial Day and July 31, any number of players from any one school may be on the same non-school team. Please read the section later in this manual “Frequently Asked Questions” to get further in-depth information on Non-Interscholastic softball. Coaches have their own restrictions that limit them to 10 days of coaching/instruction between June 1 and July 31. Please note in this regulation that although teams may play in excess of the 50% limitation between the Friday prior to Memorial Day and July 31, 2018, school coaches may not COACH them until June 1, 2018.

    SO, the summer team that has 5 girls on the Ultimate Platinum all-stars playing fall and winter of 2018-2019, that all became freshmen, at Good Grades High School, the day 9th grade started in fall of 2018. Only 4 of them can be on Good Grades High school team come the spring of 2019.
     
  20. Stedman00

    Stedman00 Active Member

    page 32 of same regs for when player is considered freshmen.

    How are players ‘considered’ when Middle School/Junior High players play with High School players in the off-season? Answer: Players are considered middle school/junior high until August 1 of their 9th grade year and are considered separate as it relates to participating on non-interscholastic teams. For example; 4- 8 th graders could participate on a “Club” (non-interscholastic) team along with 4- 9 th graders from the same school. They are considered separate.
     

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