What does OHSAA rule prevent?

been reading lots of threads year after year about no more that 4 high school (and it goes for middle school too, right?) players on one team...so my question is, what is OHSAA preventing with this rule? Over zealous high school programs? making sure travel ball exists? My "i-think-i-knows" arent so clear, so I'll ask the softball community. what IS the big deal? why was the law made in the first place? any OHSAA history majors here? do the rules have anything to do with injuries to players who played year round non-stop?

AND how do we get OHSAA rules changed?

mustohiofastpitch said:

AND how do we get OHSAA rules changed?

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... you have to part the Red Sea before it is considered a remote possibility for a rule change...:lmao::lmao: Unless the "deem" it to be...

OHSAA is under the Ohio Department of Education control. I have talked with my Repwho is an legislative overseer of the Board of Education.

His words was.... "It takes time and public opinion to change anything in the OHSAA".

Personally, after review other states and how they DO NOT harness the girls with silly regulations... I am trying to secure data about college scholarships and the distribution of them state by state by colleges to the girls and the amount of college scholarships received by girls per state. I would guess... not because of the level of play... but by the regulations put forth on our girls... that the amount of girls from states with such stupid regulations is lower than state without regulations.

NCAA rep in Indy called OHSAA a "dinosaur" when I was checking about giving travel monies.

Tim Cleaver

It prevents player development.

Ray, this doesn't answer your question, but I think everybody forgets the clarification printed directly after the original OHSAA statement:

4.22) There is no limit on the number of fast pitch softball squad members from the
same school participating on the same squad during the period June 1-July 31.

So, unless I'm missing something - and I'm sure somebody will tell me - it's not a big issue. (Except for trying to get a few travel team practices in immediately after HS season)

We still don't know the logic (ha!) of the 4-player statement though...

it prevents this...

dd has played four years with... (Classics, Lasers, Doom, Extreme, etc. etc. (you name the team here))... at 13, the team finish 2nd at States, and finished 36th at nationals. At 14, this team has a chance to really rock.

dd shows up at high school... will probably be 4 year starter on varsity...

high school coach walks up to dd and says... we have a travel team that plays here at the high school. you are expected to play on it... "but coach..." she says... " i have a travel team"... "not any more... if you want to play varsity here.". Joe Smith... my brother coaches our travel program and every girl that plays varsity plays on this team... meaning... you want to play varsity... you better be on this team...

personally... i like the 4 on a team rule... it protects the girls from the example above.

Also, it may be deemed illegal based on Federal law as you can't treat one girl from one state different than another and all girls must be given a equal chance. Now, the problem is according to the law students I paid beer and pizza too for four weekends to research this issue... is if OHIO thinks they have a good reason to make this regulation.

I haven't seen any good reeason and they keep our girls down with their junk regulations.

I just don't have the money to fight them right now. But, one day I will.

mediasteve, now that I could see!

Here's my guess:

OHSAA believes that it prevents school teams from practicing and playing together year-round, causing an unfair advantage to other schools who are not able to practice and play year-round, for whatever reason. They probably also believe that it prevents athletes from transferring to other school districts for the sole purpose of creating powerhouses in school athletics as well as their respective summer teams. In other words, the OHSAA believes it levels the playing field to the best of their ablilty.

Again, that's just my guess.

Len

Len, I did hear that same thing fromm an OHSAA rep I spoke to who is the overseer for the Dept. Of Education. Almost word for word.

But, not a good reason in my book.

MediaSteve said:

it prevents this...

dd has played four years with... (Classics, Lasers, Doom, Extreme, etc. etc. (you name the team here))... at 13, the team finish 2nd at States, and finished 36th at nationals. At 14, this team has a chance to really rock.

dd shows up at high school... will probably be 4 year starter on varsity...

high school coach walks up to dd and says... we have a travel team that plays here at the high school. you are expected to play on it... "but coach..." she says... " i have a travel team"... "not any more... if you want to play varsity here.". Joe Smith... my brother coaches our travel program and every girl that plays varsity plays on this team... meaning... you want to play varsity... you better be on this team...

personally... i like the 4 on a team rule... it protects the girls from the example above.

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Don't forget, the 4 on a team rule does not apply between from 6/1 thru 7/31. A HS coach could still impose this scenario as long as his brother's team plays from 6/1 through 7/31.

Len

MediaSteve said:

it prevents this...

dd has played four years with... (Classics, Lasers, Doom, Extreme, etc. etc. (you name the team here))... at 13, the team finish 2nd at States, and finished 36th at nationals. At 14, this team has a chance to really rock.

dd shows up at high school... will probably be 4 year starter on varsity...

high school coach walks up to dd and says... we have a travel team that plays here at the high school. you are expected to play on it... "but coach..." she says... " i have a travel team"... "not any more... if you want to play varsity here.". Joe Smith... my brother coaches our travel program and every girl that plays varsity plays on this team... meaning... you want to play varsity... you better be on this team...

personally... i like the 4 on a team rule... it protects the girls from the example above.

Click to expand...

I hear you, but I think if that were the case, any parent with a lick of sense would just not let their dd play HS ball. After the HS team disbanded, they would have to change that rule. I do like that the 4 kid rule protects the girls from that scenario tho.

Ok, Stat, not trying to hijack here...but along the same lines. What is the purpose of the rule that the girls cannot participate with their travel team during the HS season. I just don't see a point. 4 miles down the road in Pa they can do both at the same time and I only see how it could help not hurt a HS program if those girls can continue to practice and grow on their own in addition to thru their HS program. It makes it tough for those of us who cross the state line to play travel....

The 4-girl rule in the summer is an exception that allows high school coaches to bypass the 10-day rule and coach up to 4 of their players on a travel team all summer. It's an odd exception, but you take whatever crumbs the OHSAA throws your way.

I believe the purpose of the 10-day rule is two-fold. One, as others have stated, is to keep high school coaches from forcing girls to practice or play all summer with the high school coach. But I think the main reason for the rule is that the OHSAA thought that with the rule in place, girls would have the summer off from softball (or whatever sport), except for 10 days.

The OHSAA and similar organizations abhor club sports (just watch the video they make high school coaches view) and my guess is that when these rules were passed, they had their heads stuck so far in the sand that they didn't dream families would actually WANT to play ball in the summer and that the rule would help club teams prosper. I believe that the bureaucrats in the OHSAA thought that because they hate the idea of athletes playing a sport outside of the high school season, therefore everyone must hate the idea and they would be the ones to save families from such an atrocity. Yes, that is a cynical view, but I'm just going off of the comments that I always hear and read from school administrators, which make up the OHSAA.

What they don't realize is that they ultimately have no control over what families do in the summer, thank heavens, as they have no business even trying. I don't think it's the summer rules that hold back development of athletes, it's more the total restriction on coaching in the school year outside of the season. The rules are so geared toward two-and three-sport athletes that the one-sport athlete is unfairly kept from receiving coaching for most of the year. It would seem to me that some allowance of time for coaching would make sense, if not just getting rid of the rule altogether. Yes, some minority of coaches will insist that athletes play only their sport. But if coaches push too hard about playing only one sport, they will eventually lose players.

MediaSteve said:

it prevents this...

dd has played four years with... (Classics, Lasers, Doom, Extreme, etc. etc. (you name the team here))... at 13, the team finish 2nd at States, and finished 36th at nationals. At 14, this team has a chance to really rock.

dd shows up at high school... will probably be 4 year starter on varsity...

high school coach walks up to dd and says... we have a travel team that plays here at the high school. you are expected to play on it... "but coach..." she says... " i have a travel team"... "not any more... if you want to play varsity here.". Joe Smith... my brother coaches our travel program and every girl that plays varsity plays on this team... meaning... you want to play varsity... you better be on this team...

personally... i like the 4 on a team rule... it protects the girls from the example above.

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yes thats it in a nut shell....and in our area this is still going on

wgman21 said:

I hear you, but I think if that were the case, any parent with a lick of sense would just not let their dd play HS ball. After the HS team disbanded, they would have to change that rule. I do like that the 4 kid rule protects the girls from that scenario tho.

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That would take many keys players to band together to get that to happen. If only one or two did it then all that would happen is that one or two players would be negatively impacted and no progress would have been made.

It is common in the baseball community to be "forced" to play for the High School's suggested team. Naturally this is against the rules but being against the rules doesn't make it against reality.

If you think these restrictions are tuff......wait till college.....where you are not allowed to even make money during the season...ie no job or any other income, and where the gifts you recieve on your B-Day or X-Mas may be questioned and result in loss of your scholarship or eligibility to play....

Must be a Northern Ohio thing. If I ran into that, DD being forced to play on a coaches side team, I would go up the chain ending at the elected school board members who I know would take action. They do it for votes. That's how it should be handled, not with OHSAA regulations punishing everyone to avoid the sins of a few.

mustohiofastpitch said:

Must be a Northern Ohio thing. If I ran into that, DD being forced to play on a coaches side team, I would go up the chain ending at the elected school board members who I know would take action. They do it for votes. That's how it should be handled, not with OHSAA regulations punishing everyone to avoid the sins of a few.

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yeah, it would be ugly!!! Freedom of choice!!!