Running up the score?

default · Oct 31, 2009

I grew up on baseball. One unwritten rule was: when you had a team beat, you no longer bunt and steal. Some coaches broke this rule, and they were heavily denigrated by their peers and regarded as classless jerks. There was a local NAIA college coach who did this and the other D-III coaches used to use this against him in recruiting players. If you played college ball in the 80's in Central Ohio you probably know who I'm referring to.

Now by way of comparison, I'm relatively new to fastpitch but I've coached high school, rec, and travel. Is it my imagination or does this unwritten rule not apply to fastpitch?

I've seen a high school team continue bunting and stealing with a 20 run lead. Also seen so-called elite program travel teams bunt and steal with 12 run lead in the final inning. Even delayed steal home with a 9 run lead in the final inning.

Now, I would not suggest for one second that you tell your players to play less than 100 percent in any situation. But when the game is in hand they hit away. Base coaches don't try to stretch doubles into triples, you don't call bunts, steals, etc.

At the very least I think it is in poor taste but I thought I would put it out there. Is there something about girls fastpitch that makes this unwritten rule not applicable and I'm not seeing it?

default · Oct 31, 2009

If you are in a weekend tournament you cant tell your girls to downshift. You can work on bunting, have right hitters try to bat left or try to get your own team out by stealing or leaving early. The worry is that if you downshift, what if your girls stall?? You cant let the girls get lazy, or it will bite you in the rump.

default · Oct 31, 2009

What do you mean by "downshift"? Like I said, 100% effort at all times. I just think coaches drop the tactical weapons like bunting and stealing. When I'm coaching a game and it's out of control, I don't even give signs - just tell the batter when they look down, "your hitting!" Baserunners still take 2nd or 3rd on passed balls (not the same as stealing) but not home.

default · Oct 31, 2009

That is the best tome to work on bunting. You not only get to practice for your team, but give the other team the chance to defend. They may be loosing but they start making those plays, everything is a learning experience. The girls are just as aggressive as any coach, you dont sign the steals, but if the girls can make it do you still let them go? I know I have two DDs that have more than once asked why they were held up when they think they can make it, and given the chance they will go.

default · Oct 31, 2009

I agree with Viper about bunting with a huge lead. My JV team was having one of those days where nothing we tried worked and the opposing team was handing us our lunch. After getting to a 15 run lead the opposing team began bunting a lot. Some girls were working on slaps, others were squaring and bunting back towards the pitcher or toward our third baseman. We were able to defend and get outs. They practice bunting, we practiced bunt defense. They won and we weren't embarrassed.

default · Oct 31, 2009

Mad Hornet said:
What do you mean by "downshift"? Like I said, 100% effort at all times. I just think coaches drop the tactical weapons like bunting and stealing. When I'm coaching a game and it's out of control, I don't even give signs - just tell the batter when they look down, "your hitting!" Baserunners still take 2nd or 3rd on passed balls (not the same as stealing) but not home.

Your team must not hit much. We score way more runs hitting the ball than by bunting. We played a few teams last year where we went into bunt mode. The team even had trouble getting the out with the bunt. We loaded the bases and kept right on bunting. They were finally able to get the easy force at home. This year we probably won't have to worry about it because we move up an age group.

default · Nov 1, 2009

If I remember correctly when fastpitch softball started booming it was all about the short game instead of the long ball. I too remember the unwritten rule back in baseball but I have witnessed many big come backs with many runs scored in fastpitch, if a team lets up in the upper levels they could be asking to get burnt in a tournament.
I know I would ease up but a high level team playing to be the winner of a tournament would be surprised to see a team slack off too much that it would cost them a game if there is one big inning. League play would be where I would frown on running up a score on anyone but in a tournament the girls want to win big that is why they play out their hearts for. I seen teams loose 20 to 0 and come back to play the same team later to beat them in a run rule game...... it happens, the better the skills the players have anything can happen in one good inning. It is all in judgement at any given moment. I wonder how many coaches eased up to just have it back fire on them and cost a win.

default · Nov 1, 2009

Quit playing in tourneys where you have this type of competition and you never have to worry.

default · Nov 1, 2009

Our kids hit fine. I'm commenting on my general observation over the past few years.

When a tournament director tells me he seeds teams based first on W/L, then head to head, then defensive runs allowed, then a coin flip and I ask, "what about runs scored"? He says "I don't account for runs scored so that there is no incentive for coachs to 'run up the score'".

What do you think he means by that?

default · Nov 1, 2009

LADY_KNIGHTS said:
Quit playing in tourneys where you have this type of competition and you never have to worry.

Yea thanks for that pearl there Lady Knights....

default · Nov 1, 2009

Mad Hornet said:
Yea thanks for that pearl there Lady Knights....

I'm in the giving mood...that was a freebie.:lmao:

default · Nov 1, 2009

I truely know where your coming from and I also know the flip side from comments like this... " If runs dont matter why do we keep score " true a TD's rules can change the way you use tactics........ but a team has to play their standard style game or risk the attitude changes within players.

No coach or team wants the score runned up on them with what some call bush league tactics. But at the tournament level ease up on a team and it may cost you in other ways than the score. Bunting to practice after you have the game in hand should give a better percentage for the defense since they know it is play in hand. the defense making that play is better than having your runners walk off the base which is soo down grading to a team to end a game. I say let the players play their game if it where chess you can just end the game....... I forgot the chess term when no chance to recover to win is.

default · Nov 1, 2009

Checkmate

default · Nov 1, 2009

I agree with all of you. One more point I would like to make. If its a 90 degree day outside and we are playing our first game I will play hard. If I can get my team (especially pitchers and catchers) out of the heat with a short game; I going to to it. Anything can happen, so say your winnng by a lot; you start working on other things. Before you know it the other team has snuck up on you (one here and one there) or you had a bad inning. Sure you still won the game but now you have to play the entire time because you just gave the mercy rule away.

default · Nov 1, 2009

From what I have seen in HS Varsity and JV ball I assume there is alot of practice on bunting and bunt defense

default · Nov 1, 2009

I played bb in 70's and running up the score was a no no but i do think bunting with a big lead is more than fine best time for practice for both teams besides that pitching and defense got you the lead and that is still all out!

default · Nov 1, 2009

As the coach I am generally in control of when we steal, bunt, hit-run, take the extra base, etc... - ie how much pressure we put on the other team. My rule of thumb is I am always playing for the 8 run mercy rule. If we get up by more than 8 I will stop putting unneccessary pressure. If we fall below 8, I put pressure on again. The players do not know the difference - and they shouldn't.

I am not a believer in having players bat opposite handed or laying down bunts during a game for practice because IMHO it makes more of a mockery of the game/other team. If our opponent is unable to end an inning (without pressure) and the game risks becoming an embarrassment to the other players (or if I believe it is becoming borderline dangerous which can happen at the younger ages). I will discretely get the umpires attention and lead-off early to end the inning/game. In the team meeting, I will explain the importance of not embarrassing the other team.

Regarding the difference between bb and sb - you need to look no further than the difference in generations and the sexes. As a pitcher, I was unofficially taught (by watching baseball games on tv, listening and observing older players) that if someone disrespected you/your team by running up the score - a ball strategically thrown at a batter was expected.

Although my dd loves the game of sb and probably spends more time practicing than I did with bb, she doesn't even come close to spending the amount of time I did watching/studying/learning the game. I think the times have changed and then there is the difference between the make-up (as a general rule of thumb) between boys and girls.

default · Nov 1, 2009

Tangy
Great post I agree 100 0/0

default · Nov 1, 2009

Tangy-Mike said:
As the coach I am generally in control of when we steal, bunt, hit-run, take the extra base, etc... - ie how much pressure we put on the other team. My rule of thumb is I am always playing for the 8 run mercy rule. If we get up by more than 8 I will stop putting unneccessary pressure. If we fall below 8, I put pressure on again. The players do not know the difference - and they shouldn't.

I am not a believer in having players bat opposite handed or laying down bunts during a game for practice because IMHO it makes more of a mockery of the game/other team. If our opponent is unable to end an inning (without pressure) and the game risks becoming an embarrassment to the other players (or if I believe it is becoming borderline dangerous which can happen at the younger ages). I will discretely get the umpires attention and lead-off early to end the inning/game. In the team meeting, I will explain the importance of not embarrassing the other team.

Regarding the difference between bb and sb - you need to look no further than the difference in generations and the sexes. As a pitcher, I was unofficially taught (by watching baseball games on tv, listening and observing older players) that if someone disrespected you/your team by running up the score - a ball strategically thrown at a batter was expected.

Although my dd loves the game of sb and probably spends more time practicing than I did with bb, she doesn't even come close to spending the amount of time I did watching/studying/learning the game. I think the times have changed and then there is the difference between the make-up (as a general rule of thumb) between boys and girls.

Thanks for the sensible reply.

default · Nov 1, 2009

We always play for the mercy rule if you get up on a team fast prior to the third inning we put in girls that need more game time. We also work on small ball no hitting away. We won't leave early or round bases with the ball in the circle to get called out. I have had teams come back on me by doing this and not run ruled them but I have not lost doing it either.

Running up the score?

default

Member

default

Member

default

Member

default

Member

default

Member

default

Member

default

Member

default

Member

default

Member

default

Member

default

Member

default

Member

default

Member

default

Member

default

Member

default

Member

default

Member

default

Member

default

Member

default

Member

Similar threads