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not an excuse just reality --population, our best atheletes get split between other sports and lastly --how would the cal teams be if they only practiced indoors during Nov,Dec,Jan,Feb and March ? (I still owe you one ringer ) MD
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If Jennie Finch grew up in Ohio instead of Arizonia would she be playing Basketball?
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GO to a top div 1 roster and look at the bios .how did these girls manage to play 2 -3 sports in high school and still get scholarships. ??? sour grapes and excuses....there are very few top coaches in ohio who are willing to learn and teach the girls the right way... most of them are frustrated ex -jv players who take there frustration out on the kids ... question > what does indoor and outdoor have to do with anything if you are practicing perfect form ( throwing , hitting and fielding ) do you have to be out on dirt to do this ???
bottom line is it takes time and hard work to get to that level.. if your kid cant find time to work on there hitting ( perfect form dry swings tee etc. ) then be satisfied with her 230 avg
you guys are just looking for excuses ...push your kid , let them fail , see what they are made of .. or most importantly .. get involved !!!!
what doesnt kill you will make you stronger...trust me i know !!
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Chinny Chin Chin -- indoor VS outdoor --To SOME extent Yes -- Yes you need lots of reps against top flight pitching to perfect the timing/angles/planes etc , you can be perfect indoors all winter on a tee , that doesn't equate hitting live pitching IMO. Or at least hitting it well. So to answer your question --No , you don't have to be outdoors to work out, BUT you want to be the best nationally --it sure helps to be able to work outdoors 12 months a year not 7.
as far as looking for excuses , or sour grapes -- I'll just say I don't like where you are headed with that but it's true for some kids/orgs NOT true with others. Our team is working with regularity. currently. MD
as far as looking for excuses , or sour grapes -- I'll just say I don't like where you are headed with that but it's true for some kids/orgs NOT true with others. Our team is working with regularity. currently. MD
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why can't hittin live pitchin indoors be effectiev too
michigan won ncaa a few yrs ago working indoors all winter
michigan won ncaa a few yrs ago working indoors all winter
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see ya
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Not to mention that U of M routinely has a competitive team made of very few CA girls.
2010 roster includes just 3 from CA and has 11 from MI/IL with the rest being from various east coast states.
2005, the year they were national champions they only had 4 girls from CA, and 10 from MI/OH/IL.
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Dan you and Chin Music are not that far off in my opinion....
"At 50 team showcase in Indy with 25 college coaches in attendance...Crystl ask the kids who practiced off the tee 6 times last week, 5,4,3,2 one girl raised her hand and then CB asked was it at practice or own your own? 1 was at practice 1 was on my own and 7 girls raised their hand at 1 and all was from a practice. She made the statement to the parents and players, "You knew you were coming to a showcase that would have college coaches and you did nothing to prepare! and "Why did you waste two days for gas, food and hotels and spend 300 to $400 dollars for a bat?"
CB is from California and the one thing she noticed that "we" do not practice enough on our own and that going to practice one day a week will not make the difference in our girls.
Look at the techniques being taught at the college levels in our area (MIDWEST) and you can defend, imply or justify what they do and the techniques they teach however are they getting the results? Carol Hutch rethought her process of hitting in 2004 and won it all in 2005 using RVP. Remember RVP is not a hitting technique it is a way to compare what your hitters do against the best in the world. Ohio State bought RVP in 2005 and finally made it to the play offs in 2009! What was or is the difference? Each coach can choose from who ever they want to recruit and teach and can coach any technique they choose, so it is own their shoulders if they win or loose as they are picking the players and the techniques.
Help me out here and tell me what coaches have upgraded and moved on to a better conference from around here lately as I don 't stay up to date with everyone however Larabee from WSU is the only one I can think of right now and went to the SEC. He changed his offensive mindset and techniques.
We still have high school and travel ball coaches that teach squisch the bug, swing down on the ball or swing level to the ball or in some cases just play small ball! The mind set is what blows you away...keep doing what you always have done and you can expect the same results!
When our kids do not practice at home or own their own time we are making excuses for them....one parent said we do not have a place to hit. I said do you have a tee? Yes! Then have her hit socks (put a layer of duct tape on the socks) at targets on the garage door and I gave them measurements so it would be meaningful so she would have an idea what she is doing good or bad. Then the dad said what if she took cuts in front of a mirror would that help her? Yes! Be creative and help your kids improve and do your home work as to techniques.
My opinion...Howard
"At 50 team showcase in Indy with 25 college coaches in attendance...Crystl ask the kids who practiced off the tee 6 times last week, 5,4,3,2 one girl raised her hand and then CB asked was it at practice or own your own? 1 was at practice 1 was on my own and 7 girls raised their hand at 1 and all was from a practice. She made the statement to the parents and players, "You knew you were coming to a showcase that would have college coaches and you did nothing to prepare! and "Why did you waste two days for gas, food and hotels and spend 300 to $400 dollars for a bat?"
CB is from California and the one thing she noticed that "we" do not practice enough on our own and that going to practice one day a week will not make the difference in our girls.
Look at the techniques being taught at the college levels in our area (MIDWEST) and you can defend, imply or justify what they do and the techniques they teach however are they getting the results? Carol Hutch rethought her process of hitting in 2004 and won it all in 2005 using RVP. Remember RVP is not a hitting technique it is a way to compare what your hitters do against the best in the world. Ohio State bought RVP in 2005 and finally made it to the play offs in 2009! What was or is the difference? Each coach can choose from who ever they want to recruit and teach and can coach any technique they choose, so it is own their shoulders if they win or loose as they are picking the players and the techniques.
Help me out here and tell me what coaches have upgraded and moved on to a better conference from around here lately as I don 't stay up to date with everyone however Larabee from WSU is the only one I can think of right now and went to the SEC. He changed his offensive mindset and techniques.
We still have high school and travel ball coaches that teach squisch the bug, swing down on the ball or swing level to the ball or in some cases just play small ball! The mind set is what blows you away...keep doing what you always have done and you can expect the same results!
When our kids do not practice at home or own their own time we are making excuses for them....one parent said we do not have a place to hit. I said do you have a tee? Yes! Then have her hit socks (put a layer of duct tape on the socks) at targets on the garage door and I gave them measurements so it would be meaningful so she would have an idea what she is doing good or bad. Then the dad said what if she took cuts in front of a mirror would that help her? Yes! Be creative and help your kids improve and do your home work as to techniques.
My opinion...Howard
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Howard -- I know Chinny and I agree on alot. I was going to answer his quip about being sensitive but really did'nt know if it was directed towards me or not. I know I don't need to defend my own kids workout schedule . thats why I edited my post .
just for laughs--- I called one of your "protege's" about hitting in their garage this week and ask "what night are you hitting" the response was " well we are hitting 3-4 days a week , just pick one of those" and that was for during the week , not weekends LOL ! I'd guess you know the kid I'm talking about. MD
just for laughs--- I called one of your "protege's" about hitting in their garage this week and ask "what night are you hitting" the response was " well we are hitting 3-4 days a week , just pick one of those" and that was for during the week , not weekends LOL ! I'd guess you know the kid I'm talking about. MD
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Some kids work harder than others and it shows and you know exactly where we are coming from and I have an idea who it is and it shows!
Have a great Thanks Giving and let me know when you are coming to town.
Howard
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Let's stir this baby!
Cali, Alaska, Ohio or wherever, it all starts with ATHLETICISM - as in the genetic "gifts" a kid is born with. Just like singing, you have to have something to start with.
So you gotta be in the athletic pool FIRST. Being athletic will not guarantee success, but lack of athleticism WILL guarantee a lack of success. If you could develop athleticism, every girl would be sub 2.7 to first, and pitchers could "practice" their fastball up to 70 mph! But those athletic kids who don't work on their game skills will be just average athletes up to a certain age, then get passed up by their peers.
Look at the OSU kicker - a sokker player. And star running backs are usually track stars trained to carry a football. Athleticism, then specialized training.
It's not really a complicated formula. In California, the girls are NOT more athletic, there is just MORE OF THEM! Just like D-I vs D-IV high schools in Ohio, D-I has a much bigger pool to draw the athletic kids from.
More bluntly, it's like race horses. All the champions have certain physical abilities and attributes that they were born with, and superior, specialized training made the best of those attributes.
So, if your DD isn't athletic, but loves softball, is she supposed to quit and take up piano? If you ask that, you missed the point entirely! Talent and ability have no connection with "love of the game". I dearly love baseball, softball and basketball - but 10 minutes on a basketball court with my 16 yr. old would kill me!!
Bottom line - if your DD truly loves playing the game of softball, SHE will be the one pushing YOU to help her get better. If it's the other way around, there's a big hint being ignored...
Cali, Alaska, Ohio or wherever, it all starts with ATHLETICISM - as in the genetic "gifts" a kid is born with. Just like singing, you have to have something to start with.
So you gotta be in the athletic pool FIRST. Being athletic will not guarantee success, but lack of athleticism WILL guarantee a lack of success. If you could develop athleticism, every girl would be sub 2.7 to first, and pitchers could "practice" their fastball up to 70 mph! But those athletic kids who don't work on their game skills will be just average athletes up to a certain age, then get passed up by their peers.
Look at the OSU kicker - a sokker player. And star running backs are usually track stars trained to carry a football. Athleticism, then specialized training.
It's not really a complicated formula. In California, the girls are NOT more athletic, there is just MORE OF THEM! Just like D-I vs D-IV high schools in Ohio, D-I has a much bigger pool to draw the athletic kids from.
More bluntly, it's like race horses. All the champions have certain physical abilities and attributes that they were born with, and superior, specialized training made the best of those attributes.
So, if your DD isn't athletic, but loves softball, is she supposed to quit and take up piano? If you ask that, you missed the point entirely! Talent and ability have no connection with "love of the game". I dearly love baseball, softball and basketball - but 10 minutes on a basketball court with my 16 yr. old would kill me!!
Bottom line - if your DD truly loves playing the game of softball, SHE will be the one pushing YOU to help her get better. If it's the other way around, there's a big hint being ignored...
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You must not only practice but bad practice makes bad habits! As Howard likes to say, not the nun type. We have open gym for local high school softball players to come and hit-pitch. So I get to see many coaches and kids. Yes they still teach what Howard posted, including taking your hands to the ball. Posture -stance is terrible. I spend time with each kid working on basics. They all want to hit in the cage and I tell each of them , don't waste you time. Practice on a T . Many tell me my high school coach taught me to swing this way! Kids want to learn, but many have never seen any type of hitting instruction.
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Well said Sammy.
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Got a question for Howard and sbfamily. Say you have two kids. One kid looks great on the T but can't hit a lick off the hand but her swing looks great while missing the ball. Another kids has a horrible looking swing but hits the ball and very rarely strikes out. She just has very good hand eye coordination and puts the bat on the ball. I'm not talking dribblers either. What kid would you devote more time on. Remeber time is not unlimited.
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I agree with alot of the statements above, be able to play outside in January is huge,more players avaiable(more people) more teams and the Elite teams dont mind playing each other every weekend, because their final objective is Nationals, how many Ohio teams get on here and brag about being 50-3 but wont play in the bigger tournaments or the better teams?
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Ringer I think these are your questions if I read it correctly:
Question: Say you have two kids. One kid looks great on the T but can't hit a lick off the hand but her swing looks great while missing the ball.
I would suspect timing and rhythm and tracking if they can hit off a tee verses live hitting. If it were one of our kids they would learn to track while hitting off a tee...this is not an uncommon problem if you do not know when to load and when to step or dancing with the pitcher.
Question: Another kids has a horrible looking swing but hits the ball and very rarely strikes out. She just has very good hand eye coordination and puts the bat on the ball. I'm not talking dribblers either. What kid would you devote more time on.
Rarely strikes out? Swinging or looking at a called third strike? Puts the bat on the ball....where is her primary field to put the ball? Does she pull everything?
The first kid you alluded to has been trained incorrectly based on your assumptions and my opinion and it would not take that long to correct it.
The second kid, knowing if they are just pulling the ball helps me understand if she is rotating as needed and or the front side is opening on every swing, or perhaps she is crowding the plate. If she is that good we could make it even better in a short period of time.
Define how much time I have with each and I will come up with a plan.
I worked with a kid last weekend at the Hawks clinic that I have never worked with before and her mother was there in the cage with me. I soft tossed her three balls inside, middle and away and she pulled all three balls with no weight shift. I told her mother she probably does not throw well either and she said you could not possibly know that she has not thrown yet. I whispered to her mother, her back leg would not release, she would not be able to thrown to the back of the cage and her arm hurt at the elbow and shoulder and there were probably 20 people standing there. What I said would happen did and when I ask her if after a double header her arm hurt she responded, did mom tell you and mom said she complains all the time that her arm hurts. We taught her how to throw first and hit second and within 1.5 hours she hit to all fields with power and could hit the ball where we asked her to. She also threw harder and hit the target we asked her to throw at in the back of the cage.
Now the funny part after, three hours we had her hitting blind folded off the tee. She started her swing when I tapped my foot and she hit the first one and then while the blind fold was on without her knowing it I removed the tee and she missed three balls that I soft tossed and then I reminded her she still had to turn her head as she would if she could see using the same mechanics and she hit three off soft toss.
Derek Jacobs was there and saw it and could identify the girl as she plays on the Hawks. The reporter from Softball The Magazine was there and took pictures and I also worked with her.
How much time is too much and what is your definition of time is not unlimited? Three hours too much or too little?
Happy Thanksgiving Howard
Question: Say you have two kids. One kid looks great on the T but can't hit a lick off the hand but her swing looks great while missing the ball.
I would suspect timing and rhythm and tracking if they can hit off a tee verses live hitting. If it were one of our kids they would learn to track while hitting off a tee...this is not an uncommon problem if you do not know when to load and when to step or dancing with the pitcher.
Question: Another kids has a horrible looking swing but hits the ball and very rarely strikes out. She just has very good hand eye coordination and puts the bat on the ball. I'm not talking dribblers either. What kid would you devote more time on.
Rarely strikes out? Swinging or looking at a called third strike? Puts the bat on the ball....where is her primary field to put the ball? Does she pull everything?
The first kid you alluded to has been trained incorrectly based on your assumptions and my opinion and it would not take that long to correct it.
The second kid, knowing if they are just pulling the ball helps me understand if she is rotating as needed and or the front side is opening on every swing, or perhaps she is crowding the plate. If she is that good we could make it even better in a short period of time.
Define how much time I have with each and I will come up with a plan.
I worked with a kid last weekend at the Hawks clinic that I have never worked with before and her mother was there in the cage with me. I soft tossed her three balls inside, middle and away and she pulled all three balls with no weight shift. I told her mother she probably does not throw well either and she said you could not possibly know that she has not thrown yet. I whispered to her mother, her back leg would not release, she would not be able to thrown to the back of the cage and her arm hurt at the elbow and shoulder and there were probably 20 people standing there. What I said would happen did and when I ask her if after a double header her arm hurt she responded, did mom tell you and mom said she complains all the time that her arm hurts. We taught her how to throw first and hit second and within 1.5 hours she hit to all fields with power and could hit the ball where we asked her to. She also threw harder and hit the target we asked her to throw at in the back of the cage.
Now the funny part after, three hours we had her hitting blind folded off the tee. She started her swing when I tapped my foot and she hit the first one and then while the blind fold was on without her knowing it I removed the tee and she missed three balls that I soft tossed and then I reminded her she still had to turn her head as she would if she could see using the same mechanics and she hit three off soft toss.
Derek Jacobs was there and saw it and could identify the girl as she plays on the Hawks. The reporter from Softball The Magazine was there and took pictures and I also worked with her.
How much time is too much and what is your definition of time is not unlimited? Three hours too much or too little?
Happy Thanksgiving Howard
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Mainly it's because they can play and practice all year round in 70, 80, 90 degree weather. So they never lose the feeling.
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West Coast softball does allow kids to play year round, the biggest advantage is practice 3 days a week and tournaments every other weekend. Kids still play other sports and travel ball ends as soon as H.S. season begins (for H.S. players). The biggest differences I see is 3 pitchers to a team and all will be used to win a game. I haven't seen any team at this point that rides one arm for a tournament. The 3 pitcher goal here is to throw strikes and let the kids hit it and play defense. Defense is focused on more out here than hitting as in Ohio we worked a ton on hitting and pitching and then defense. Ohio is where I've seen the best pitchers and some kids that can really hit the ball. Here it's consistency with pitching and being able to put the ball in play. The true difference to me is the quantity of practices. 8-2hr practices a month, 2-3hr saturday practices and 2 tournaments a month year round. Total the number of practices your team has in Ohio for the year and as a coach you should see the difference and it should make sense why west coast appears to be better, beause as the kids get older most of the games come down to very low scores and defense is what wins games when you play teams out west. JMO
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Thanks, it obviously was not the money, but the principle.
s##*er has some great athletes, to be sure, as for better training, I doubt that. DD played both softball and S**#r growing up. The trainer for S###er was from somewhere in Africa, and he was the meanest man(towards females) I have ever encounted. I could have not asked for a better pitching instructor than she had. Proofs in the pudding.
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Someone made the comment about athleticism. That is a huge factor to be sure. The west coast just has way more athletic kids who play softball. Combine that with better training, more often training (due to their systems and the weather) and the whole softball culture being a primary sport out west, and you have superior players.
Yes Jennie Finch may very well have been a basketball player or a volleyball player if she had grown up in Ohio`s high school culture.
Someone mentioned Ohio gets the west coast 2nd tier players. That may be true to a point, but there are also west coast girls who would play a lot out west, but get a full ride here. So they come here. OSU has at least 4 tier one players from the west coast right now.
I think Michigan will be in the final four this coming season. They have maybe the best one/two punch in the nation in the circle, play sound defense and can hit the ball. If Ohio got all the best talent this state has, they would still be competitive, but pitching in Ohio is not up to snff with the west coast, yet.
Our Ohio hitters ARE getting better, and a lot of that has to do with our pitchers getting better. it goes hand in hand.
Yes Jennie Finch may very well have been a basketball player or a volleyball player if she had grown up in Ohio`s high school culture.
Someone mentioned Ohio gets the west coast 2nd tier players. That may be true to a point, but there are also west coast girls who would play a lot out west, but get a full ride here. So they come here. OSU has at least 4 tier one players from the west coast right now.
I think Michigan will be in the final four this coming season. They have maybe the best one/two punch in the nation in the circle, play sound defense and can hit the ball. If Ohio got all the best talent this state has, they would still be competitive, but pitching in Ohio is not up to snff with the west coast, yet.
Our Ohio hitters ARE getting better, and a lot of that has to do with our pitchers getting better. it goes hand in hand.
