Keeping up with Scorekeeping

Let's break the monotony scorekeepers. Let's try to keep our minds just as sharp as out pencils.

Scenario 1: It is the start of the 6th inning. Batters 6, 7, and 8 in the order are due up. Batters 6 and 7 are out by way of ground-outs. The next batter comes to the plate. You, as the scorekeeper, notice that it is not the #8 batter, but the #9 batter. You do your duty by tell the coach that the improper batter is at bat. The coach decides not to say anything, just yet. The #9 batter grounds out 4-3 for the 3rd out. The coach does not say anything about the out-of-order batter.

As a scorekeeper, which batter gets credit for the at-bat?

As coach, why don't you want to say anything, just yet?

I'll answer as a scorekeeper, even though I'm not one now. I love to keep book, though.

The 9 hitter is credited with the at-bat. The 8 hitter will just have one less at-bat. The 9 hitter in effect became the proper hitter once the defensive coach let it go.

Of course I know the answer to the coach question, but I will leave it for someone else. I'm just happy you notified me quietly of the improper batter instead of screaming it to the umpire or something.

Coach did not say anything......due to A) the batter grounded out so they have their 3rd out. B) Next inning when the #1 or #10 batter comes up, after they bat out of order it will be an out for the player batting out of order.

The answer to the coach question ... if the coach says anything prior to the at bat being completed, the other team would just put the 8th batter up to bat with no change in the count, and no penalty on the team at bat. If however, the 9th batter were to reach base, and the coach would call it to the attention of the umpire before the next pitch is thrown, the batter who reached base would be out and the inning would be over.

With that being said, I can think of one reason why the coach might want to say something before the at bat is completed. Can anyone else?

Another good question would be who leads off the 7th inning. Of course I know the answer to that, but will leave it for someone else!

Softball mom ... once the wrong at bat is completed and not protested, there is no penalty that carries over to the next inning. The batter after the 9th batter is up at that point.

JoeA, you are correct.

coachjb, you too are correct.

softballmom, your first part is correct.

So what's the reason the coach might want to say something per my question back?

coachjwb said:

With that being said, I can think of one reason why the coach might want to say something before the at bat is completed. Can anyone else?

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You don't want the #1 hitter leading off in the 7th inning (assuming only 9 are hitting).

Right ... if we are confident we can get the #8 hitter out to end the 6ht, it would be better to start off the 7th inning with the #9 hitter, and then possibly never get to #3 and #4. Could be a tough call.

coachjwb:

Unless, as in our case, your number 9 batter is also in the lead-off batter mold.

coachjwb said:

The answer to the coach question ... if the coach says anything prior to the at bat being completed, the other team would just put the 8th batter up to bat with no change in the count, and no penalty on the team at bat. If however, the 9th batter were to reach base, and the coach would call it to the attention of the umpire before the next pitch is thrown, the batter who reached base would be out and the inning would be over.

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Not exactly correct...

"Yes" to the first part- if the BOO is appealed before the incorrect completes her at-bat, she is replaced by the proper batter, assuming her count without further penalty.

"No" to the second part! When the BOO is appealed after the at-bat is completed, it is ALWAYS the batter WHO SHOULD HAVE BATTED that is called out- in this case, the #8 batter.

Now it gets a little bit trickier...

Enforcement and penalization of a BOO infraction can vary depending on which rule set you're playing under. This can come into play when the improper batter is put out on the play.

ASA has a unique interpretation that says if the improper batter is put out (#9 in our scenario), then the BOO is appealed, the batter who should have batted (#8) is called out and the improper batter's turn at-bat is skipped. The next proper batter would be whoever follows #9 in the line-up.

High school (NFHS) rules are different. In this same secenario, upon appeal the improper batter's (#9) at-bat is negated- it's as if it never happened. The batter who should have batted is called out (#8). The next proper batter is whoever follows the batter called out in the line-up. That would be #9 and she would bat again (leading off the next inning in this case), not be skipped over like in ASA.

Generally, ASA is the "odd man out" with their unique interpretation of this rule. Most rules sets call this the same as high school does, negating the improper at-bat and having the improper batter bat again. Since there are a dozen different santioning bodies, I can't go so far as to say that "all" others are like this- because I'm not familiar with all of them! Suffice to say that the outcome of a BOO appeal can be different, depending on the santioning body.

Thanks for that clarification bretman. I hadn't really thought about what batter would be called out. OK, so in high school rules, lets assume the #9 batter bats out of order and makes an out, and it is brought to the attention of the umpire immediately after the at bat ... does #1 lead off next inning?

I learned something new. Excellent.

coachjwb said:

Thanks for that clarification bretman. I hadn't really thought about what batter would be called out. OK, so in high school rules, lets assume the #9 batter bats out of order and makes an out, and it is brought to the attention of the umpire immediately after the at bat ... does #1 lead off next inning?

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For high school, #9 bats again. Her improper at-bat is negated- totally ignored as if she had never come to the plate.

For ASA, the out made by the improper batter stands, as well as the out for the batter who should have batted. The next legal batter is whoever's name follows #9 in the line-up.

The difference hinges on the fact that ASA rules say that ALL outs made while the improper batter is at-bat stand- even the one made by the improper batter- whereas most rule sets say that the improper batter's at-bat is negated (or, "replaced") by the out called on the BOO appeal.

Batting Out of Order violations can get pretty confusing! Different rule sets having different interpretations is confusing enough, but when you get into all of the different ways this can spin off- the improper batter either reaching base or making an out, the exact timing of the appeal, the advance of other runners during the improper batter's time at bat, who the next batter should be, etc.- it can get downright mindboggling!

There are so many "what-if" scenarios that can be generated by a BOO situation that the rule takes up almost a full page in the rule book. Couple that with the fact that this comes up so infrequently- it's not something that an umpire has to deal with on a regular basis- and it's easy to see how even the umpire can get confused.

In all the hundreds of games I've worked, I can recall having to call an out for BOO only one time. There have been a small handful of times where someone batted out of order, but it wasn't properly appealed, so no out was enforced. I've had a slightly larger handful of times where a coach appealed it before the improper batter completed the at-bat, so we just put the right batter in the box without penalty- and then the coach was mad because somebody wasn't called out!

I'm glad that these situations don't come up very often, because they almost always lead to an extended argument and a delay in the game. I've gone so far as to tell newer umpires I've been training that if it does come up, and they can't remember the rule, to just call somebody- anybody- out and get somebody- anybody- in the batter's box and get another pitch thrown as quickly as possible! The rule can be so confusing that nobody will know the difference anyway!

So for ASA & NHFS if the 6,7,9 hitters bat, all of them make an out AND the batting out of order IS NOT appealed then the next batter up in the 7th inning is the #1 hitter in the order?

IceBlack29 said:

So for ASA & NHFS if the 6,7,9 hitters bat, all of them make an out AND the batting out of order IS NOT appealed then the next batter up in the 7th inning is the #1 hitter in the order?

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Yep. If there is no appeal made by the defensive team, the last batter's at-bat becomes official- even if she was the wrong batter. The next batter due up is whoever follows her in the batting order.

From the scorekeeping standpoint, #8 just never came to bat. She isn't charged with an official at-bat or anything else, so her stats are unaffected.

awesome, i love the smell of stats in the morning! hey wvan, was this scenario fall ball/winter or summer tourney? anyways, happy treading for all the "staties" out there

Bretman, in ASA the number nine batter would not bat again if she were put out as a result of her time at bat. If she was not put out during her time at bat she would still bat again. Batter 8 would be called out. So if 9 reached first base. 8 batter out #9 stills bats again and would lead off next inning if 8 being called out BOO would be 3rd out. Is this senerio correct?

Statman Ray said:

awesome, i love the smell of stats in the morning! hey wvan, was this scenario fall ball/winter or summer tourney? anyways, happy treading for all the "staties" out there

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This is just a scenario. I haven't scorekept since July. DD isn't playing travel ball so I'll be doing only HS ball for now.

I just thought it would be nice to stimulate those brain cells.

wvanalmsick said:

This is just a scenario. I haven't scorekept since July. DD isn't playing travel ball so I'll be doing only HS ball for now.

I just thought it would be nice to stimulate those brain cells.

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She ready to come out of retirement yet? Kayla really misses her!!!