drop dead, like or dislike?

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I HATE IT!!!! I do think that a time limit may be required to expedite a tourney.... but if an inning is started an inning should be finished.....the only thing the time limit should be used for... is to determine if there is time to start a new inning...if so then I feel it should be finished.....but hey who am I???? Just saying...lol
 
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Terrible!!!!! and to use the profound words of GUMP >>>
Thats all i got say about that!!!!
 
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The question should be;
At a travel ball tournament; would you prefer to play all seven innings of the game, just like God intended the game to be played but have fewer games and no ability to stay on schedule OR have a time limit, be able to stay on schedule and have a 4/5 game guarantee?

You will need to schedule at least 2 hours for each game, from start to start. That will drop the usage of a field from 8 games per day to 6 games. If one game goes into extra innings or is a run-fest the entire tournament must wait for the delayed teams which delays more teams. The tournament is then controlled by the slowest game on each slot.

Also now the umpires will want to get paid similarly per day wether they do 6 or 8 games. The field rentals will be per day for not as many games. This will lead the TD's to either find more fields (read more cost) or allow fewer teams. This fewer teams will mean less income for shirts and food. All this means the prices will rise for these tournaments.

You vote for tournament formats with your attendance. Would you really pay 25% more for a tournament with less teams and no enforceable schedule? I don't think so. You will complain about it on this forum but no one would allow the TD's to make the adjustments necessary to implement a complete 7 inning game format for all games.

So at least one of us likes the time limit. Perhaps if you really thought about it you would to. Play some friendlies with no time limits, make it to the Championship game or go to your high school game. Trying to stuff 250 games into a weekend does lend itself to a timeless format.

Why would you as a team haft to pay 25% percent more for a tournament with less teams?
Why don't TD's schedule 2 hr time slots? It's indeed about money. Personally, I like playing ball. Probally the only TD not worried about his pocketbook by Sunday's end.

I think where the mistakes by TD's are happening is the ITB rule in pool play which can go forever in a game. Great possibility of everything being behind come Saturday night before the start of the double or single elim ( whatever the format may be). In pool play it should be finish the inning and TIES CAN HAPPEN.. instead of trying to do the ITB thing in pool play. This WILL keep pool play on time.

There is absolutely no reason the game cannot be played.. without drop dead and revert back rules. Dumbest thing I ever heard of personally... but then again it is about money and organizations raising money so they can do the tournament circuit.

Do the 1:20 and no new inning- ties can happen in pool play. and schedule games at 1:30

OR

Do the 1:30 and no new inning - ties can happen in pool play.. and schedule games at 1:45

OR play the game the way it is suppose to be play and make time slots of 2:00 hrs and have fun.

I seem to notice the teams have more fun at 2:00 hr time slots versus anything else.

But, having TIES in pool play happen versus ITB rules in pool play is a MUST to keeping things on time early on Saturday... so by Saturday night there isn't a delay of hrs.. because two teams just happen to play ITB's and the games last 9 or 10 innings... along with the bad luck of it happening on the same field AGAIN by two OTHER teams... which then throws everything out of whack on all fields.. if the TD can't adjust or move games to another field to go ahead and get started.

I suggested that to a Park in Cincinnati that had the ITB in pool play and was getting a reputation ( which was unfair I thought) of things not being on time. I suggested the use of TIES ..... and walla... things stay on time.

I think teams, parents and coaches DEAL with TIES in pool play versus DROP DEAD or being behind on Saturday because of ITB's in pool play.... so much better and hard feelings by coaches and parents is reverted because of it.
 
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I think it is insanity to say playing with-in the rules can be unsportsmanlike like. If you play drop dead then time management is part of the game, like it or not. A coach SHOULD use every tool available to win the game with-in the rules.

I hate drop dead. The game should be by innings. If drop dead is played then I think some additional rules should go with it like no substitution the last 15 minutes, no time outs no warm ups etc. Take away anything that could be used to delay the game. Otherwise everything is free game.
 
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There was 1 ump in particular that was at a Wilmington Tourney last summer that thought he was PERFORMING and no kidding waisted at least 1-2 minutes every 1/2 inning BSing with the crowd, players, and coaches while the pitcher had already taken her alotted # of warmups.

Yuck. I hate when that happens. I've seen it myself and been saddled with a partner like that a time or two.

About all I can say is that this kind of behavior is not taught, supported or endorsed by any sanctioning body. They tell us to keep the game moving along and enforce unnecessary delays. The rules allow one minute between half-innings for warm-ups, 20 seconds for a pitcher to pitch after receiving the ball and 10 seconds for batter's to get set in the box between pitches.

I did a time study for a local league and saw the same thing. People kept asking me how most of my games were completed, while many others were cut short by the time limits. I found that failure to enforce the above noted rules resulted in about 3 minutes being wasted per half-inning. That's nearly a 1/2 hour of people "standing around doing nothing" during the course of five innings being played. That definitely can make a difference between playing a full seven innings or getting cut short by the clock.
 
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Well we did the 80 min drop dead for the last 2 years at our tournament. After our tournament I e-mailed all coaches and ask them what were their thoughts on our tournament, likes and dislikes, what would they like to see changed. Guess what was number UNO. 80 min Drop dead, so we changed it to no new inning after 75 minutes. This would still give us an 90 minutes game schedule. Teams like to go to tournaments with many teams, to see new teams, friends, and to be able to say they placed ____ at a tournament with many teams... Just like Nationals, would you go to them if there was only 8 teams there, no it would not mean as much. Teams go for the whole experience, not just game times..

By the way second biggest thing teams wanted to see at our tournament (as well as most tournaments i am sure) Home run fences. Which we will now have this year too.
 
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I agree Parma, coaches do not like the drop dead. We have seen the samething with our tournaments and have modified the format.
 
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Drop dead rules are rules that should never been placed in any tournament.. in my opinion.
 
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Well we did the 80 min drop dead for the last 2 years at our tournament. After our tournament I e-mailed all coaches and ask them what were their thoughts on our tournament, likes and dislikes, what would they like to see changed. Guess what was number UNO. 80 min Drop dead, so we changed it to no new inning after 75 minutes. This would still give us an 90 minutes game schedule. Teams like to go to tournaments with many teams, to see new teams, friends, and to be able to say they placed ____ at a tournament with many teams... Just like Nationals, would you go to them if there was only 8 teams there, no it would not mean as much. Teams go for the whole experience, not just game times..

By the way second biggest thing teams wanted to see at our tournament (as well as most tournaments i am sure) Home run fences. Which we will now have this year too.


I understand the mentality of teams with "big" tournaments, etc.... but the true fact that can never be changed is this: In a four gg with 3 pool and single elims... 1/2 the teams go home after the first round of the single elims... and half the teams of this big tournament plays only four other teams.
 
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Rule is OK and makes sure at big Tournys your not playing into dusk without lights..Yet I think where possible it should only be Drop Dead finish the inning. I think revert back increase the chance of something less than spirt of the game unfolding
 
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HATE IT!! And avoid those tourneys completely anymore. One reason I won't play indoors much anymore.
 
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Drop dead rules are rules that should never been placed in any tournament.. in my opinion.
Hoping not to stir this pot again, but didnt your fall tournament have drop dead? As a matter of fact the tournament was played as drop dead because of poor field conditions. Then suddenly at one game when one team was winning the drop dead rule was dropped because the umpire (you?) had plenty of time to get to a different field to umpire the next game. Therefore the team that would have won with the drop dead then lost. Either have it for all or none if a director is going to do it. Just trying to figure out if you changed your mind since then. Hope so as it is a dreadful rule. Again, NOT trying to stir the pot, just discussing. I agree with Lady Knights. Find out which tournaments are using this or could be and go find a different tournament. If I had a choice of playing four complete games in a weekend or five chopped up games, give me the four complete. Could you imagine the drop dead rule in men's softball?
 
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its all solved pretty simply. Take less teams, charge more for entry fees. But who wants simplicity, right? We'd absolutely be willing to pay more to play without time limit/drop dead rules/runners to 3rd/etc. What are you really getting by playing 4 inning games? Barely half of what you should be getting. So, I'd pay $500 to enter a 16 team tournament with nothing but the run rules in effect where most games would go 7 innings, rather than pay $400 for a 20 team tournament with the time limits/drop dead rules in place where you only get 5 innings at best most times. Thats $10, or less, extra a player for the entire weekend. Though we've been lucky and haven't had it come into play negatively for us over the years. Though once, our girls did win a game because of the drop dead/revert back. Felt so bad for the other team because it was a team who just couldn't seem to ever beat our girls over 3 or 4 years. Close many times, but just didn't happen. Then the one time they do take the lead, they lose on the drop dead rule. Made us feel hollow in a way. Not a good feeling for anybody. To lose like that stinks, and to win like that doesn't feel great. Its just wrong. And when you see tournaments offering 5 game guarantees at 1:10 per game versus 4 games guarantees at 1:30 a game, which is better? All tournaments should be played without drop dead rules and/or inadequate time limits and all should be double elimination. Do not take any more teams than you can to support those requirements. If there is a particular amount of money to be raised then make the fees match what your goal is. If you still can't match what your goal is because you'd have to make the fees unreasonable, then your goal is too high. And then the only time drop dead and short time limits should be in place is when the weather causes issues.

It really is time to stop cheating the girls out of being able to play the game how it was meant to be played. Its the only major sport(baseball/softball) thats not supposed to have a clock. It just keeps getting worse. Some teams barely get through their lineup once and the game is over. Whats next, 3 innings then some type of shootout if the teams are tied? 3 batters each with whomever gets the most baserunners out of those 3 batters wins? I'm only half kidding and am afraid I just gave some tournament director an idea he/she thinks is good.
 
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Hoping not to stir this pot again, but didnt your fall tournament have drop dead? As a matter of fact the tournament was played as drop dead because of poor field conditions. Then suddenly at one game when one team was winning the drop dead rule was dropped because the umpire (you?) had plenty of time to get to a different field to umpire the next game. Therefore the team that would have won with the drop dead then lost. Either have it for all or none if a director is going to do it. Just trying to figure out if you changed your mind since then. Hope so as it is a dreadful rule. Again, NOT trying to stir the pot, just discussing. I agree with Lady Knights. Find out which tournaments are using this or could be and go find a different tournament. If I had a choice of playing four complete games in a weekend or five chopped up games, give me the four complete. Could you imagine the drop dead rule in men's softball?

It wasn't my tournament HCDAD9. It was the Laser tournament and that was the way THEY wanted to run it. As for me umpiring the last game for both of those teams on Sunday with nobody scheduled on that field behind us and with no trophies on the line for any team that played in the event... as none was given... yes, I had time to umpire a full six innings and until it was 10 minutes before I had to be on another field. I did it as a favor to the two teams. No big deal.

But, get you facts straight before you come on here blasting me about drop dead events. I have NEVER used a drop dead anything in any of my events ever.
 
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its all solved pretty simply. Take less teams, charge more for entry fees. But who wants simplicity, right? We'd absolutely be willing to pay more to play without time limit/drop dead rules/runners to 3rd/etc. What are you really getting by playing 4 inning games? Barely half of what you should be getting. So, I'd pay $500 to enter a 16 team tournament with nothing but the run rules in effect where most games would go 7 innings, rather than pay $400 for a 20 team tournament with the time limits/drop dead rules in place where you only get 5 innings at best most times. Thats $10, or less, extra a player for the entire weekend. Though we've been lucky and haven't had it come into play negatively for us over the years. Though once, our girls did win a game because of the drop dead/revert back. Felt so bad for the other team because it was a team who just couldn't seem to ever beat our girls over 3 or 4 years. Close many times, but just didn't happen. Then the one time they do take the lead, they lose on the drop dead rule. Made us feel hollow in a way. Not a good feeling for anybody. To lose like that stinks, and to win like that doesn't feel great. Its just wrong. And when you see tournaments offering 5 game guarantees at 1:10 per game versus 4 games guarantees at 1:30 a game, which is better? All tournaments should be played without drop dead rules and/or inadequate time limits and all should be double elimination. Do not take any more teams than you can to support those requirements. If there is a particular amount of money to be raised then make the fees match what your goal is. If you still can't match what your goal is because you'd have to make the fees unreasonable, then your goal is too high. And then the only time drop dead and short time limits should be in place is when the weather causes issues.

It really is time to stop cheating the girls out of being able to play the game how it was meant to be played. Its the only major sport(baseball/softball) thats not supposed to have a clock. It just keeps getting worse. Some teams barely get through their lineup once and the game is over. Whats next, 3 innings then some type of shootout if the teams are tied? 3 batters each with whomever gets the most baserunners out of those 3 batters wins? I'm only half kidding and am afraid I just gave some tournament director an idea he/she thinks is good.

TD's don't haft to ask for more money for events like you are talking about. It's really odd when teams tell me that they haven't played that many innings all year as most events are timed so the whole game doesn't get in. Everybody does their own thing as a TD. Personally, I like less teams ( 8 perferabally ) play 2 hr slots to get in the whole game, and give out some hoodies. It's my kind of event that I like to throw. I figure I give them back the game and give them some better prizes than they are use to.

Sooner or later these teams will get tired of playing 1:10 minute games or 1:20 minute games. I mean.. how much longer are they gonna keep paying $400.00 entry fee to play 1:15 games ? With 1/2 of the field playing 4 games?

I have an event in Xenia in May, great clay infields and artificial turf outfields ( Athletes In Action Sportscenter - Spring Shootout under Other Tournaments in the OFC) .. play 2 hrs time slots. Cost me a boatload to rent it out.. but hey what the heck. Girls will have fun as they don't get that chance to play on this type of field very often. If you know anybody wanting to play ball on some nice fields and full games... have them give me a call....LOL
 
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Guess you will stir the pot. The Lasers wanted you to play by different rules on one game because you had extra time? I happened to be sitting at that game and watched as the side that thought they won were told they needed to play extra. I over heard the coaches and playing extra was not what they were looking for. Perhaps the earlier games that were affected by drop dead they would have liked to play longer. Who won, who lost, who cares. Trophies? Big deal. CONSISTENCY please. I didnt realize it was a "friendly". The 18s werent playing like it was a friendly. Do have videotape from a parent who shot the game of his dd. Want a copy? Dont think you want the old postings broken out. You were more involved in that than you let on. One private message to me stated that you are a good guy who loves the sport and girls but tends to over promise and under deliver. I guess yoour heart is in the right place. With that I will move on. Take it as corrective criticism since you throw yourself out there.
 
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HCDAD9.. I have no idea where you ever in the world come up with that thought that those two teams didn't want to play any longer than the "norm". Both coaches are friends of mine... and with no games behind me on that fields as it was done for the day on Sunday... they LIKED the idea of playing the inning out and not using the drop dead. Heck, we even played an extra inning. They was still dragging and relining the field I was going to. They both happily agreed before the game started to play as long as we could and the only reason we played early.. as they was scheduled for the last game of the day.. was to help them and not have them sitting around for hours until their scheduled time.

As for me running the tournament.. tournaments like that pretty much run themselves with scheduled game times and start times. I did it for FREE to help Marie Shaver and the Laser Gold. I even scheduled her umpires for free and never charged a dime .. where it costs most TD's $4 to $5 dollars per game. I umpired on Sunday ( three games) as one umpire had to back out and I could get no other at that short notice. I didn't do a game on Saturday.

As for games being not on time.. I beg to differ. Even after the rain we had on Thursday night into Friday around Noon.. the fields were playable at the schedule game time and three fields didn't get started until 10 minutes AFTER the scheduled time not because of wet conditions.. but because we was still putting down bases.

Here.. I'll break out the tournament thread for you myself. I'll be back and post the link right here so people can see how YOU was a jack@ss back then even BEFORE the tournament.. just like today.

Be right back with the link.
 

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