ASA HOF Tourney in June - Oklahoma

default · May 30, 2011

@CincyASA:

I see from my searches of past posts that you are the Cincy Metro ASA representative and that you therefore are probably the person who instructed the TD for the September Hall of Fame qualifier to have the tournament award the Hall of Fame berth to the third place team in that tournament.

I am trying to remain civil on this issue. But I have to say this is one of the worst decisions I have seen regarding an ASA tournament. Qualifiers for Eastern Nationals are literally a dime a dozen. And now it appears that a team doesn't even really need to qualify to enter the Eastern Nationals.

A berth to the Hall of Fame Tournament should be considered something really special. I know that our team had intended to enter the tourney in question, precisely because we wanted to go to the site at OKC; it's fastpitch softball's version of Mecca. How could you decide that a third place team gets to take the berth away from a first place team? What would you tell our players if you were coaching them at this tournament and the goal was to go to the Hall of Fame? "Don't play your best?" "Take the loss because that will put us in the bracket where we can at least attempt to earn the berth?" And what if the opposing coach is telling his/her team to do the same? A competition for who can turn in the worst performance? A team "cracks under the pressure" by winning the game?

This just is not right. Please reconsider your decision.

default · May 30, 2011

cgs said:
That has to be a typo, right? Third place goes to OKC? How does one strategize to place third in a tournament?

LOL..Who made this decision. Been to both and not even close which is more prestigious.

default · May 31, 2011

Lionsfastpitch said:
LOL..Who made this decision. Been to both and not even close which is more prestigious.

Not our decision-we were told by Cincy Metro ASA Commissioner which berth would go to which place.

default · May 31, 2011

SixshootersMom said:
Not our decision-we were told by Cincy Metro ASA Commissioner which berth would go to which place.

Please tell me that this is a joke. There is no way that a tournament would give a HOF berth to a team finishing third after awarding a regional berth to higher finishers. Personally I would question the JO/Commissioners knowledge of fastpitch if he has in fact mandated it. The HOF berth is third in the ASA pecking order right after the 18u Gold Berth and ASA Nationals berth.

Just like has been said in the past - I would like to see the coaches and parents trying to figure out how to finish in third. Depending on the tournament structure I would like to see the conflict as the TD tries to figure out how determine which semi-finalist is awarded third place.

default · May 31, 2011

Thanks for the support Mark. I can't imagine that the ASA Executive Offices would be pleased to see that a HoF berth is going to a third place team, with the first and second place finishers unable to lay claim to the HoF berth because they are being awarded berths to ASA Eastern Nationals.

As I said earlier, I just assumed it was a typo because it is so absurd.

default · May 31, 2011

I'd upload some Photos from our 2010 trip, but not smart enough to make it happen, have a great shot of dd's name on the big screen. 2008 the Slammers won the tournament and had some great photos as well.

default · May 31, 2011

Slammers were there and won the tourney in 09 in the 14u division. I just found the thread that we used to relay info to the OFCers who stayed in Ohio. If you search Slammers on the road to Oklahoma and the Hall of Fame tournament go to page 8 for a picture I took on the big field after the championship game.. Boy I can still remember it like it was yesterday. Good Luck to the Hawks on their journey out to the wild wild west and keep us updated on your progress. I was your umpire during the winter at all stars and this team has a real shot of bringing home the gold again.

btw.. 6 of these former slammers girls will be playing together this summer

default · May 31, 2011

flarays said:
Just like has been said in the past - I would like to see the coaches and parents trying to figure out how to finish in third. Depending on the tournament structure I would like to see the conflict as the TD tries to figure out how determine which semi-finalist is awarded third place.

HOW TO WIN THIRD PLACE

YOU WIN MANY GAMES IN THE SINGLE OR DOUBLE ELIMS .. THEN LOSE ONE ON PURPOSE AND WHEN YOU GET TO THE SEMI - FINALS OF THE LOSERS BRACKET.... YOU FEED THE KIDS HOT DOGS AND CREME SODAS AND MILK SHAKES PRIOR TO THE GAME AND TAKE THE FIELD AND HAVE GIRLS UPCHUCK THE HOT DOGS.. AND AS A COACH YOU SAY YOUR PLAYERS CAN'T PLAY AS THEY ARE SICK AND FORFEIT. ;&

THUS, WINNING THIRD PLACE AND THE TRIP TO HALL OF FAME TOURNAMENT. :yahoo:

default · Jun 1, 2011

ump5761 said:
Slammers were there and won the tourney in 09 in the 14u division. I just found the thread that we used to relay info to the OFCers who stayed in Ohio. If you search Slammers on the road to Oklahoma and the Hall of Fame tournament go to page 8 for a picture I took on the big field after the championship game.. Boy I can still remember it like it was yesterday. Good Luck to the Hawks on their journey out to the wild wild west and keep us updated on your progress. I was your umpire during the winter at all stars and this team has a real shot of bringing home the gold again.

btw.. 6 of these former slammers girls will be playing together this summer

Ump are they going to be in Colorado at the end of June?

default · Jun 1, 2011

ohioquakerman said:
HOW TO WIN THIRD PLACE

YOU WIN MANY GAMES IN THE SINGLE OR DOUBLE ELIMS .. THEN LOSE ONE ON PURPOSE AND WHEN YOU GET TO THE SEMI - FINALS OF THE LOSERS BRACKET.... YOU FEED THE KIDS HOT DOGS AND CREME SODAS AND MILK SHAKES PRIOR TO THE GAME AND TAKE THE FIELD AND HAVE GIRLS UPCHUCK THE HOT DOGS.. AND AS A COACH YOU SAY YOUR PLAYERS CAN'T PLAY AS THEY ARE SICK AND FORFEIT. ;&

THUS, WINNING THIRD PLACE AND THE TRIP TO HALL OF FAME TOURNAMENT. :yahoo:

I better put that in my bag of tricks in case we venture up for the qualifier......but what do you do if it is 3 pool into single elimination? Do the two semi-final losers have to flip for the berth?

default · Jun 1, 2011

I know.. that single eliminations puts a bind on things...LOL

Haven't devised a way to win that.

My favorite way to win a coin flip in saying like " Heads on the ground"....

So, when it lands with heads up.. start screaming loudly and jump up and down to distract the other people and the other coach sees heads showing on the ground and figures you won the flip.

If it lands with tails staring up at you... STILL jump up and down and claim that you won and called it " Heads on the ground" which by all rights .. IF tails is staring up at you from the ground... then HEADS IS ON THE GROUND....

Try that one !!!!! Won many a flip that way in my time

default · Jun 1, 2011

ohioquakerman said:
I know.. that single eliminations puts a bind on things...LOL

Haven't devised a way to win that.

My favorite way to win a coin flip in saying like " Heads on the ground"....

So, when it lands with heads up.. start screaming loudly and jump up and down to distract the other people and the other coach sees heads showing on the ground and figures you won the flip.

If it lands with tails staring up at you... STILL jump up and down and claim that you won and called it " Heads on the ground" which by all rights .. IF tails is staring up at you from the ground... then HEADS IS ON THE GROUND....

Try that one !!!!! Won many a flip that way in my time

If you ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin

default · Jun 1, 2011

flarays said:
If you ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin

:lmao: But, techinically not cheating though.

Just a play on words is how I look at it

Have to be creative if you are trying to get third place in a tournament. Been awhile since I have tried to WIN THIRD PLACE !!!!

Have you never in YOUR softball days... went from first to third on a base hit and NOT even come within three feet of the second base bag when rounding it becuase you KNOW there is only one umpire and he probally isn't looking and paying attention to something else anyway.

Or is that an umpire thing we do to fellow umpires knowing they can't watch EVERYTHING ;&

default · Jun 1, 2011

Really? Is this the kind of stuff we want to be teaching the kids? It's okay, as long as nobody is looking, or if you don't get caught? Really?

default · Jun 1, 2011

Trouble is Merlion ..... there is usually two umpires in fastpitch. Doesn't work unless it's Men softball.

default · Jun 1, 2011

That's not my point. It shouldn't be about how much can be gotten away with.

default · Jun 1, 2011

Updated Team List - 12u

Stripes & Strikes
Worth Cobras
98 Georgia Impact
Atlanta Vipers - Miller
Atlanta Vipers - Vallery
Georgia Impact 99 - Jefferys
Georgia Fire - Knight
Katy Force 98
Texas Fusion
TPS 98
98 Texas Rip
Texas Peppers 98
98 Texas Glory Adkins
Ohio Hawks
Lady Laser Red
BNGSA Angels
Indiana Magic
Blue Springs Fireballs
St Louis Chaos
CO Stars-Craig
CA Grapettes SN
Stray Cats
Thunderbolts 98
Team Rawlings

default · Jun 2, 2011

CincyStorm said:
Like so OFTEN happens on this site, you have the uninformed, speaking the untrue, and representing it as factual, when in reality the truth is that, and this is directly from Michelle, she told the Ultimates they could award the 3 berths in whatever manner the teams that finished in the event desired, let me make this SIMPLE for all of you...

1st place has a choice of Eastern National OR Hall of Fame
2nd place has a choice of Eastern National OR Hall of Fame (If not taken by 1st place team)
3rd place has a choice of Eastern National or Hall of Fame (If not taken by 1st or 2nd place team)

Anything else is a decision made by the Ultimates as to how they think they will award berths, it is both unfair and untrue for anyone representing anything else as being an edict issued by The Cincinnati ASA JO Commissioner. What utter BS

I would expect that Charles will very shortly correct any misstatements by anyone from the Ultimates once and for all.

The JO Commissioner had no idea she was being misrepresented, while IMHO opinion this site serves some purpose, unfortunately IMHO also, many of those that represent themselves as authorities on this site, are...well...clueless!!!

Sorry if this ruffles feathers, but my frustration with the misinformation and agenda driven postings is total and complete, it is why I seldom bother to post any longer.

Get the facts from the source then post ...otherwise don't post!!

Lighten up there Cincy!

Why enter a HOF tournament qualifier, and then take an Eastern Qualifier berth. I think all replies in this thread were appropriate. If your not "in it to win it" (the berth), enter another tourney. I have looked, and nothing is mentioned about this being an eastern qualifier. It was listed as a qualifier for the Hall of Fame tourney.

I have participated in both the somewhat regional ASA (supposed "eastern, western, northern, or whatever national") also ran tourneys, and also the Hall of Fame tourney. They pale in comparison to each other. If your teams goal is to play in a regional "ASA national" tourney (ie: summer vacation), then go to one of the qualifiers for that tourney.

The Hall of Fame tourney is a once in a young players lifetime type tourney. This history, the feel, and the destination of Oklahoma City's ASA national championship fields and museum are a once in a lifetime experience. They play on historic fields, that have brought us numerous olympic gold medals, and historic players and role models for young girls. As well as a great place to instill the dream that quite a few of these girls aspire to...

Do not take this as a beat down. No matter what, it is about the experience for the young ones. But if ever you have the opportunity to take your daughter to this facility, and experience the feel of being on the "field of dreams" for young women. Take the opportunity, you will never be disappointed.

Signed,

"Agenda driven and Clueless in Columbus"

Photo of winning team 2009
Bring it back to Ohio (again) Ohio Hawks and Lasers Red -were rooting for ya!

default · Jun 2, 2011

@CincyStorm:

I did send an email to Michelle yesterday repeating verbatim my post to her on this thread. She responded that the order of berth awards was at the tournament's discretion. Appears to be a big misunderstanding as to what was communicated between the TD and the JO ASA rep. One party thinks she communicated a particular result and the other heard something entirely different. Those misunderstandings happen frequently in life and the important thing is that this matter be corrected so the first place finisher at this tournament can go to the Hall of Fame Tournament.

As to your frustration with people who represent themselves as expert on ASA matters, I assume some of that is aimed at me as I have been trying recently from a lawyer's perspective to figure out the implications of the ASA Code. I hope that I have made it clear in my recent posts that I believe I am unable to be an expert on ASA rules because the Code is drafted in what I believe to be very poor technique, creating many ambiguities and "exceptions" at various, somewhat random places. I also believe that no one who is not an Ohio ASA insider can be an expert because there is apparently a set or sets of "local association rules" that is not made publicly available in writing to the general fastpitch community. So as I said on another thread, I'm crying "Uncle" and simply advising our team to take extremely conservative steps, designed to avoid any individual or team eligibility issues, when deciding issues such as what age group tournaments to attend and what guest players to have when our regular roster doesn't produce enough players for any particular tournament.

default · Jun 2, 2011

CincyStorm said:
Like so OFTEN happens on this site, you have the uninformed, speaking the untrue, and representing it as factual, when in reality the truth is that, and this is directly from Michelle, she told the Ultimates they could award the 3 berths in whatever manner the teams that finished in the event desired, let me make this SIMPLE for all of you...

Get the facts from the source then post ...otherwise don't post!!

CincyStorm - don't get all hot and bothered at the people questioning the sanity of the berth award sequencing listed. We all were responding to the post from the SOURCE. SixshootersMom is the teams representitive that initially posted the event and the FACTS. SSM then confirmed that the JO was the person that made the decision. When noone from the organization or ASA replied it has to be taken for what it is - a description of the event. Don't get on your high horse and talk down to the posters in this thread because they were questioning the sanity of the decision. If I were you I would be talking down to the TD and the ASA staff for not being on top of the situation. OFC is, and has been, the method of communication for Ohio Fastpitch for many, many years. If those entities involved in this situation choose not to monitor and use it then so be it.

BTW - why would a JO allow a TD to determine how to award ASA's second biggest berth prize available to 10u-16u teams? That should be a mandated thing.

On another note - and IMHO - a HOF Qualifier should be the best of the best playing a tournament to win a berth to a HUGE event. It should not be lumped in with berths to a second level event. It is a GREAT idea to move the Ohio Qualifier to the fall. It allows for proper travel planning. When it was held in the spring it didn't get much play because the HOF tourney was usually just a couple weeks after the qualifier. Moving it should allow the event to draw even more top teams. Again - Great decision.

ASA HOF Tourney in June - Oklahoma

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