Appeals-How do we make an Appeal?

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This popped up out of our Scorekeeping thread.

How does a coach/player make an appeal to the umpire? Let's not confuse this with being upset with a "wrong" call (we all know how to protest that).

Bretman, please jump in and give us info. As always, the intent is to educate coaches and players. I have seen numerous times when an appeal is screwed up and coaches get upset. Or I have seen where appeals could have been made but nothing was done.

If coaches and players know what to appeal, when to appeal, and how to appeal it, then things will go much smoother in a game and people won't get upset (except for the team that gets a player called out on the appeal).

This is what I have learned. Hopefully it is not wrong, but I have been know to forget things from time to time. If I am, please correct.

Let's take the Batting out of order (BOO). If it is discovered and if the coach waits until the wrong batter reaches base, then the coach must bring it to the attention of the umpire before the next pitch (Legal or illegal).

How about Tag-ups or leaving early on the caught fly balls? From what I understand, there are several ways to get the out before play is dead. A player can tag the base in which the runner left early from. Or a player can tag the offending runner, if she hasn't retreated to the original base yet. But remember, the ball is still live and any other runners will be active to try for another base if possible.

If you wait until play is dead, then before the next pitch (legal or illegal), a player or coach can ask the umpire for an appeal that a runner left before the catch (Must specify which runner). I prefer this because any other runners cannot advance since play is dead.

Here is one that I see from time to time. A runner advances from 3rd base to home. She crosses the plate but the umpire does not give the "safe" signal. She did not touch the base. The runner continues into the dugout and the defensive continues with the game. The defense did not notice that the runner did not touch Home or they did not notice that the umpire did not give the safe sign. Or a runner misses a base while running during a play. The appeal must be made prior to the next pitch (legal or illegal) by a coach or player to the umpire (I am starting to see a trend here).

Bretman, here are some questions.

1. Which umpire does a coach or player make the appeal to?
2. Does the umpire always have to give the "safe" signal when a player crosses/reaches a base, even without a play being made?

Help us.....we really do want to be better.

We can make this the OFC Winter Rules/Coaching On-Line Seminar

 

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The ASA rule book does a better job of explaining this than I probably could. But that won't stop me from throwing a few things out there!

The actual rules about appeal plays for missing a base or leaving early on a catch take up almost a full page in the book (see rules 8-7-F, G, H, I and the "EFFECT" following them). They also have a good thorough explanation of appeals in the Rules Supplement (see R/S #1). That one only takes up about three pages!

For starters, I'll try to answer your two specific questions.

1. Which umpire does a coach or player make the appeal to?

Sometimes it's obvious. For instance, a Batting Out Of Order appeal should always go to the plate umpire, since he is the one you give your "official" line-up to before the game and he handles all line-up issues. On a play at the bases, most of the time you're going to ask the base umpire and on a play at the plate it will be the plate umpire.

Sometimes it's not so obvious. Generally, standard umpire mechanics with a runner tagging up or touching third base will have the plate umpire be responsible for watching that. And the responsibility for "touches and tag ups" can change if there are multiple runners (plate umpire will have the lead runner) or if the base umpire goes into the outfield to make a call on a "catch/no catch" fly ball (then the plate umpire has ALL touches on the bases, same as if there was only one umpire).

But those are umpire mechanics and things that the umpires should either know or hash out with each other before the game. You can't expect a coach or player to know all of that!

I guess your best option is to make the appeal to whichever umpire you think should be responsible for the call. If it's the wrong one, he shouldn't have any problem either directing you to the other umpire or going to his partner himself to get a ruling on the appeal.

One thing that comes up very often on appeals, or on any question about a call, is that coaches will just automatically go to the plate umpire, as if he is the "default" umpire to check with or has the final say to overrule any call. That isn't the case. If it isn't the plate umpire's call to make, then he needs to get the other umpire involved.

2. Does the umpire always have to give the "safe" signal when a player crosses/reaches a base, even without a play being made?

No. One basic principle is that you need only make a call/signal when there is something to rule on. If there is no play being made on a runner, there is nothing to call or signal.

If we were required to give a safe signal every time a runner passed a base, it would get pretty comical! Imagine a ball hit deep to the outfield and the umpires giving safe signals as the batter-runner touches first, second and third base, while the ball is still in the outfield!

But suppose we did signal "safe" everytime a runner passed a base. Now, if a runner misses one, there would be no signal. That would tip off the defense that the base was missed and their following appeal would probably be automatic.

With no play being made, it is the responsibility of the umpires to watch the runners touch the bases and it is the responsibility of the defense to make the appeal if the runner misses one.

The playing rules support this reasoning. A runner is assumed to have touched a base anytime she passes it- whether it was actually touched or not (see rule 8-3-B). The umpires shouldn't signal anything unless the defense actually appeals the missed base.

 

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I never understood the way baseball and softball handles officiating. I don't know any other sport where an official sees something wrong and doesn't call it until someone asks about it(appeal). Why should I have to officiate the game if an umpire clearly sees a runner miss a base or leave early on a tag up or pull a foot at first base. There has to be a good reason behind this. I hope its not just a your call - my call thing between umpires.

 

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For missed bases and tagging up on a fly ball- the two most common appeal plays- I couldn't give any good reason as to why they are the way they are. All I could say is that those particular rules have evolved into what they are over the course of a hundred-plus years of these sports being played.

But it hasn't always been that way. Go back far enough and there was a time when these two plays didn't involve an appeal by the defense. If the umpire saw a missed base or runner leaving early, he just went ahead and called the out. For whatever reason, these rules evolved into the appeal plays we know today. Somewhere along the line somebody decided that this was a more fair or balanced way to call these plays and they changed the rules. Why? Who knows?

Like a lot of other rules, they just are what they are. Why do we only give a batter three chances to mess up (strikes) and the pitcher four (balls)? Why does a hit batter only get one base? Why do runners only get two bases when a batted ball bounces out of play?

Beats me.

On the "pulled foot" at first base, that really isn't an appeal play. There are only a tiny number of actual appeal plays listed in the rules, like missing a base, leaving too soon on a caught fly ball or batting out of order.

Having an umpire go to his partner on a pulled foot doesn't fit the rule book definition of "an appeal play". It is asking an umpire to check with his partner for additional information, which is something altogether different.

The definition of an "Appeal Play" is "A play on a rule violation on which an umpire may not make a decision until requested by a manager, coach or player".

A fielder pulling a foot off a bag isn't a "rule violation". If the umpire sees the foot come off before the base is tagged, he can go ahead and call the runner safe. If he thinks the fielder held the bag, he should call the out. And that is exactly what he is supposed to do! If his view was blocked out, or he didn't get a good look at the play, he is free to check with his partner for input whether asked to or not.

Asking one umpire to get help from his partner is often generically refered to as "appealing", but it's not an "appeal play" as defined by the rules.

 

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Ah, you are absolutely correct on the pulled foot thing. A call was made, right or wrong, base on what the ump saw, which is all we can ask for. However, the other appeal plays where an official sees a "rule violation" and doesn't act on it unless the other team questions it is just strange in world of sports.

 

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Ok, without looking in the ASA rule book. When might you have to have four outs in an inning and why?

 

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Ok, without looking in the ASA rule book. When might you have to have four outs in an inning and why?

Here is my stab at it.

Runners on 2nd and 3rd, 1 out. Batter hits a fly ball to Center Field. Runners go back to their bases to tag-up when the ball is caught. Centerfielder catches the ball (out #2), Runner on 3rd leaves early and scores, Runner on 2nd, tags-up and heads to 3rd base. Centerfielder throws to 3rd base and the advancing runner is out (out #3). Play is now dead. But the coach keeps his players on the field. The coach then appeals that the runner that started on 3rd base left early. The umpire calls the runner out (out #4) and erases the run.

So in this case, you would want the 4th out to take away, or prevent a run.

 

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Here is my stab at it.

Runners on 2nd and 3rd, 1 out. Batter hits a fly ball to Center Field. Runners go back to their bases to tag-up when the ball is caught. Centerfielder catches the ball (out #2), Runner on 3rd leaves early and scores, Runner on 2nd, tags-up and heads to 3rd base. Centerfielder throws to 3rd base and the advancing runner is out (out #3). Play is now dead. But the coach keeps his players on the field. The coach then appeals that the runner that started on 3rd base left early. The umpire calls the runner out (out #4) and erases the run.

So in this case, you would want the 4th out to take away, or prevent a run.

This appeal has been done many times over the years and thus the fourth out appeal.

Funny thing is when a coach asks for that out in the next inning... and is serious.

 

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Here is my stab at it....

That is a good example. The "Fourth Out Appeal" rule can be found in every baseball and softball rule book, but it doesn't come up very often. I've ever had to rule on one in a game.

It's also another rule where ASA has a slightly different take than other associations. In ASA, a Fourth Out appeal can ONLY be made against a runner who has scored. That's exactly what happened in the above sample play and the appeal canceled the run.

Most rule sets (here again, I can't say "all" rule sets because there are dozens of them out there, but ASA is the only one I'm aware of that limits this appeal to a runner who has scored) allow a Fourth Out Appeal against any runner. That opens up the possibility of canceling runs in other ways.

Example: Runners on first and third, two out. Batter hits a double. Runner on third scores and the runner from first is thrown out at the plate for the third out. Normally, the one run would count.

But suppose that the batter missed first base on the way to second. After the play, the defense could appeal the miss of first base. That means that the batter did not reach first base safely. No run can ever score when the third out is made by the batter before reaching first base and the Fourth Out Appeal effectively cancels the run.

You could also have this same effect anytime the Fourth Out Appeal is on a runner who was forced to the next base, like a runner who started out on first and was appealed for missing second. If the appeal is at a base the runner was forced to, it would have the same effect as an inning ending force out- no runs can score.

Despite the name, a Fourth Out Appeal doesn't really mean that there were four outs that inning. Technically, the "fourth out" replaces the third out and all scoring on the play is recorded exactly as if the appealed out was the third out made. In essense, the defense gets to choose whichever out works best to their advantage.

And that's one long-winded explanation of an obscure rule that most of us might never see in our entire softball careers!

 

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Bretman, I think that I read sometime, somewhere that the defensive team had to had at least one fielder left on the field to make the 4th out appeal. Is this so? I do not have access to the ASA rulebook anymore or I would try to look it up myself.

 

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For ASA, the defense can make an appeal:

- Before the next pitch (in cases where the inning is still going on).

- At the end of an inning, before the pitcher and all infielders have left fair territory (the common scenario for a fourth out appeal, since they can only happen after three outs).

- On the last play of the game, before the umpires leave the field of play.

Once any of those three things happen, the defense loses its right to appeal and the previous play stands.

 

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So the actual appeal for a missed base or leaving early on a tag play can be made by a coach before the next pitch, or it must be initiated by a player?

 

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Player.... Coach can tell the player who tells the umpire " Runner left 2nd too soon"

 

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So the actual appeal for a missed base or leaving early on a tag play can be made by a coach before the next pitch, or it must be initiated by a player?

There can be a slight difference depending on the rule set.

On a dead ball appeal for a missed base, or one left early on a catch, the ASA rule says the appeal must be made by an infielder, either with or without the ball. A coach can't make these appeals in ASA.

High school/NFHS rules say these dead ball appeals can be made by any defensive player or by a coach.

It's just another one of the many small rule differences that you have to deal with if you work multiple sanctions. I won't even venture a guess on how this is specified for USSSA, NSA and all the others. If I ever work one of their games, then I'll bother with trying to memorize all of their rules! But suffice to say that there isn't necessarily a "one size fits all" answer for every rule set and the appeal process can be slightly different for one or the other.

 

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bretman:

On a homerun, if a runner misses a base (say second), how long does a runner have to go back and retouch. And, when can the defensive player appeal?

Can the coach on third, after she rounds third tell her to go back to second and touch the base.

I had this happen at ASA Nationals, girl hit a homerun, my catcher stood next to home plate ump. When jumping into the arms of her teammates at home jumps over plate. My player immediately said to umpire - 'she missed home', ump ringers her up. Wasn't sure if it was that way at every base.

 

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There can be a slight difference depending on the rule set.

On a dead ball appeal for a missed base, or one left early on a catch, the ASA rule says the appeal must be made by an infielder, either with or without the ball. A coach can't make these appeals in ASA.

High school/NFHS rules say these dead ball appeals can be made by any defensive player or by a coach.

It's just another one of the many small rule differences that you have to deal with if you work multiple sanctions. I won't even venture a guess on how this is specified for USSSA, NSA and all the others. If I ever work one of their games, then I'll bother with trying to memorize all of their rules! But suffice to say that there isn't necessarily a "one size fits all" answer for every rule set and the appeal process can be slightly different for one or the other.

So the appeal does not have to be initiated with the pitcher on the rubber - stepping off and throwing to a base as in baseball? It can just be asking?

 

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bretman:

On a homerun, if a runner misses a base (say second), how long does a runner have to go back and retouch. And, when can the defensive player appeal?

A runner can go back and retouch a missed base up until the point where she enters the dugout or dead ball area.

The defense can make their appeal as soon as the base is missed and before the runner corrects her mistake.

Can the coach on third, after she rounds third tell her to go back to second and touch the base.

Yes. The runner needs to touch the bases in the reverse order while going back and touch them in the correct order when advancing again. This runner would need to touch third, touch second, then touch third again before going home.

On this one, if the coach saw his runner miss second, and she had already rounded third, his best bet might be to say nothing and hope that the defense didn't notice the missed base. By telling his runner to go back, he tips off the defense that the base was missed! They are likely to appeal before the runner can get all the way back to second base.

I had this happen at ASA Nationals, girl hit a homerun, my catcher stood next to home plate ump. When jumping into the arms of her teammates at home jumps over plate. My player immediately said to umpire - 'she missed home', ump ringers her up. Wasn't sure if it was that way at every base.

It sounds like your catcher was on the ball! Usually, when a runner is that close to the plate and knows she missed it, she will touch it before the defense can make an appeal.

 

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So the appeal does not have to be initiated with the pitcher on the rubber - stepping off and throwing to a base as in baseball? It can just be asking?

Softball is different than baseball in that baseball does not allow dead ball appeals. (Well, high school baseball does, but they are kind of the odd man out in that respect.)

For most baseball rule sets (MLB, NCAA, PONY, LL, etc.) all appeals must be made when the ball is live. If the ball was already dead on the play, the umpire cannot make the ball live until the pitcher has the ball and is in contact with the pitching plate.

That leads to the whole "pitcher taking the ball on the rubber, then throwing to the base" thing we see in baseball. First, the ball has to be made live. Secondly, live ball appeals cannot be verbal, like on a dead ball appeal in softball. The defense needs to make an actual tag of the base or runner being appealed.

You could make a live ball appeal in softball the same way, but since dead ball appeals are allowed there's really no reason to- and there are a few downsides. If you botch the live ball appeal- say the pitcher throws the ball out of play- any other runners on base will be awarded extra basses just like on any other throw that goes out of play. Since the live ball appeal meets the definition of a play, if the defense messes up they have lost their opportunity to make the appeal again correctly. Plus, once the pitcher releases the ball, the Look Back Rule is no longer in effect and other runners may advance at will.

On a dead ball appeal none of that can happen. It's really the safest and most surefire way for the defense to make an appeal without hurting themselves.