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what are the differences? what are the advantages of playing in one or the other... pros and cons of each?
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Just my two cents.
You should attend events based on the TD and Organization running it. Not the sanctioning body unless it is a qualifier. The differences in the governing bodies have been played out on this site over and over. Way too much to rehash. The fact is that when ASA forgot to listen to their customers PGF was formed. NSA, ASA, PGF regionals are pretty much the same. But the Nationals are where the big differences lie. PGF has established themselves as the top level of competition in the sport.
You should attend events based on the TD and Organization running it. Not the sanctioning body unless it is a qualifier. The differences in the governing bodies have been played out on this site over and over. Way too much to rehash. The fact is that when ASA forgot to listen to their customers PGF was formed. NSA, ASA, PGF regionals are pretty much the same. But the Nationals are where the big differences lie. PGF has established themselves as the top level of competition in the sport.
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At least for the time being...
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Competition among the Associations is a good thing. Maybe one of them will figure out what the different level customers want and actually work to provide a consistent product.
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what is it specifically that the customers aren't getting from ASA that they get from PGF? so far I have been to a couple PGF tourneys and the umps were lets say..... not at the level as the usual ASA umps and I heard ASA umps aren't able to "cross over" and ump PGF.... which leaves who are umping? also.... PGF Nationals is like a $1700 entry fee. wondering why $1700 and where does all that money go? are you guys referring to mostly 16u and older as the top level competition or does that include 10u - 14u?
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If you were unhappy with with umps you should probably take that up with the tournament director. To say "ASA" umps are better than "PGF" umps or vice versa is a pointless argument. We played both ASA and PGF in IL and IN last year and never noticed a difference. Both were honestly very good. As far as the fees, this is the second thread you have brought this up. Warren responded clearly on the first one. Since there is no gate fee for PGF nationals my guess is the PGF nationals fees go to the same place the ASA nationals fees + ASA nationals gate fees go to.
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really tj? it might be pointless in your OPINION but I am giving my OPINION from our experiences in OHIO and looking for other experiences. I don't buy the no gate fees thing because now the team has to come up with the $1700 - ($170 from each player on a roster of 10) I think it is fair for spectators to pay small increments vs. team paying for all of it. JMHO. As far as the previous thread about PGF fees... I wonder why it was removed? lol - things that make you say hmmmmm... this is an open discussion about different sanctions experiences etc. The funny thing is that
this thread was removed lastnight by someone so I had to bump it to make it visible again... hmmmm.... but thank you for chiming in!
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The reality is that the best competition is in ASA and PGF. The reality is that PGF is totally dedicated to girl's fastpitch and the other associations mentioned are not. From a personal standpoint, the most potential recruiting occurred at PGF tournaments. The best competition we faced (other than Atlanta Legacy) were in the PGF tournaments we attended. From an umpiring standpoint, no discernible difference between PGF and ASA, but the "not so best" umpiring I have witnessed in the last 10 years or so were from NSA and USSSA. Lasers 2013 was umped by NSA last year due to the lack of ASA umpires that weekend and it showed. I saw some crazy goings on in our games alone. No sour grapes here because we did finish 3rd out of 50+ teams but our umps were having some issues. It could have been because they were understaffed and did way too many games for the weekend.
Concerning fees, if a team feels that a tournament is too expensive then don't go. Nobody is forcing you. Stay with the cheaper tourneys and have fun. If your player's parents want to go to the more expensive tournaments I'm sure they'll find another team.
Len
Concerning fees, if a team feels that a tournament is too expensive then don't go. Nobody is forcing you. Stay with the cheaper tourneys and have fun. If your player's parents want to go to the more expensive tournaments I'm sure they'll find another team.
Len
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These are opinions only -- always good to point that out. I appreciate your clarification on that 2on2. It is my opinion that umps, field conditions, schedules, etc... seem to be things more directly related to the individual tournament or locality. Therefore, when your experience is not good in regards to the umps, I just don't think your beef is with the sanctioning body. To me it would be like playing 2 ASA tournaments with bad field conditions and asking if all ASA tournaments had worse field conditions than PGF. It is my opinion that this is an example of a pointless argument. I'm sure others will put there 2 cents in as well.
In regards to the money, I just don't agree with your reasoning. The team's money in most cases comes directly from what the individual parents paid in team fees. The "team" does not have to come up with $1700, the parents do. Either the parents need to pay the team an extra $70-80 to cover the higher upfront PGF nationals fee, or in the case of ASA, the parents will pay the extra money at the gate. In my case (a family of 6), ASA will cost my family more money because the gate fees are not cheap. I just don't see your point. Why is it ok for families to pay this money in, as you say, "small increments" at the gate vs. just paying up front?
Also, it is a fact that many teams have had both positive ASA and PGF experiences. It is one thing to ask differences between the 2 sanctioning bodies, but quite another to attempt to create some kind of artificial controversy between the 2. I'll let your posts (last one included) speak for themselves in terms of your motives.
In regards to the money, I just don't agree with your reasoning. The team's money in most cases comes directly from what the individual parents paid in team fees. The "team" does not have to come up with $1700, the parents do. Either the parents need to pay the team an extra $70-80 to cover the higher upfront PGF nationals fee, or in the case of ASA, the parents will pay the extra money at the gate. In my case (a family of 6), ASA will cost my family more money because the gate fees are not cheap. I just don't see your point. Why is it ok for families to pay this money in, as you say, "small increments" at the gate vs. just paying up front?
Also, it is a fact that many teams have had both positive ASA and PGF experiences. It is one thing to ask differences between the 2 sanctioning bodies, but quite another to attempt to create some kind of artificial controversy between the 2. I'll let your posts (last one included) speak for themselves in terms of your motives.
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again... please clarify the age groups your talking about for your experiences. thanks!
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I am assuming you are talking about 16u or older since your talking about recruiting right? thanks!
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recruiting starts at 14u with the proper venue and communication from the coaches/org/TD and player's families contacting the collegiate contacts of choice via emails/phone calles. Granted, not all will fit this recruiting statement/model but it does start here. It is very common at 16u to start this process and is more than ok and fits the majority of players, teams, and families for many reasons.
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Just my opinion and Oh yea everyone I've ever talked to , you can twist it any way you want and you will NEVER justify a tournament fee of $1700 !!!
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60 teams at $1700 = $102,000 I guess I am in the wrong business!!!
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2on2outs
Two things - (BTW-what team are you associated with?)
* Best competition in 14, 16 and 18u is in PGF Nationals.
* If you truly do not know where the associations have failed their customers then I suggest that you look up some of the old, old threads that detailed it at nausea.
If you really have that much of a problem with PGF then simply don't play in their events. Don't make yourself crazy over it. Unless of course you have other motives to keep trying to press those buttons.
Two things - (BTW-what team are you associated with?)
* Best competition in 14, 16 and 18u is in PGF Nationals.
* If you truly do not know where the associations have failed their customers then I suggest that you look up some of the old, old threads that detailed it at nausea.
If you really have that much of a problem with PGF then simply don't play in their events. Don't make yourself crazy over it. Unless of course you have other motives to keep trying to press those buttons.
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11 posts and theyre ALL in one way or the other a bait or is derogatory towards PGF. Who are you really? If you dont like the way theyre set up, play some where else its that simple. Unless of course, youre part of another assoc and youre objective is to just muddy up the water....
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thanks fla- no problems with any sanctions.... just wondering why PGF seems to be pushed and pushed so hard this year especially on ofc and what are the advantages or disadvantages per age group from top to bottom from 10u to 18u
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And if you look at the rest of his/her whopping post total they are all trolling PGF....
"things that make you say hmmmmmmmm.............................................................."
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WOW, 11 posts and every post has been a direct attack on PGF. Obviously, you have some pent up frustrations. IF you don't want to play PGF or feel its not a good deal, NOT one person on this board cares. PGF can charge $2500 a team and if they have the college coaches there, teams will pay it; after all it is a business. PGF isn't going to continue offering tournaments if they are losing money. If they make a million dollars on it, who cares. I wish the tournaments got cheaper but they aren't. Give me, 1) good competition, 2) good umpires, 3) good facilities and 4) good communication. I'm a happy camper. Eventually, things iron themselves out. Some sanctions refused to listen to it's customer base and are now paying for it (NSA).
