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Must have been typing the same time. lol
Must have been typing the same time. lol
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It's understandable for people to experience stickershock the first time they see entry fees that are much higher than they're accustomed to paying. However, my condolences to anyone that is unable to look beyond the entry fee and evaluate the total cost of playing in a tournament.
Total cost = entry fee + gate fees + food + parking
ASA Gold = $1,200 + 0 + snack bar (no outside food) + 0
ASA/USA Class A = $425 + (12 players x 2.5/player x $40 = $1,200) + snack bar (no outside food) + 0 = $1,625 + snack bar
PGF Nats = $1,700 + 0 + 0 (coolers allowed) + 0
Those are the numbers for the top nationals. I don't have any experience with any of of the other nationals (NSA, USSSA, etc).
Honestly, travel costs far exceed the entry fee for any tournament that isn't local. Lodging costs alone are several times the entry fee. The cost multiplies if airfare and rental cars are required/used.
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I see numerous PGF events being advertised on OFC, but I wouldn't say they're being "pushed so hard this year." I chalk it up to Ohio's state director being in place and from the start of the year.
PGF nationals are first-class events - high quality umpires from around the country, entertaining opening ceremonies, paid online score keepers and televised championship games. The regional and local events vary by the people running them. I believe Ohio is fortunate to possibly have the most active director and one that knows how to run quality events.
PGF by age group:
- 10U: No nationals, only regional and local events (your mileage may vary).
- 12U: Strong nationals, but not as dominant as the older age groups. PGF isn't well known by 12U teams and it's very difficult for PGF to identify the strongest 12U teams to recruit them like they can at the older age groups.
- 14U: Strong nationals and best for recruiting exposure, especially since PGF juggled the age groups last year and put 16U with them in the first week (at the request/urging of college coaches). There isn't much to base a comparison of the level of competition at PGF and ASA/USA Nats last year. They were comparable according to a longtime coach whose team finished 13th at both. It will be easy to compare this year as both are in SoCal.
- 16U: Strongest nationals and best for recruiting. It was easy to compare the level of competition last year because we know the NorCal teams that finished high at ASA/USA wouldn't have fared nearly as well down here. Some of them tried qualifying for PGF too and didn't make it.
- 18U: Strongest nationals competition-wise. I don't know of any 18U national that is good recruiting-wise. There are tons of college coaches watching the games, but most of them are just watching players they've already recruited.
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Isn't it the people in charge of PGF's job to push these events??? Looks to me like PGF is just doing their job......
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Concerning PGF, like most others around here my dd has only 2 years experience....so 16U. She's played ASA, USSSA, and NSA in some form or another since 10U. She's played in different associations in Kentucky and Indiana (ISA or ISF or both....I honestly cannot remember). She's played non-sanctioned exposure events. I don't believe she's ever played a PONY event. Anyway, PGF has only been around about 4 years and the first few years was mainly on the west coast. Last year they started a regional format, and soon they will infiltrate the rec level. They're growing because they have been successful. They know how to run a tournament and they know how to market their product. You might want to get use to it......they're here to stay. Here's some light reading for your enjoyment.
Len
Premier Girls Fastpitch continuing to grow in short time of existence | Hews Media Group-Community News
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Ok I understand the concept of an organization drawing tons of quality coaches to its 16u PGF National Event in Socal, and how this org was formed to cater strictly to girls fastpitch, but please explain to me--on a regional level, at tournaments in Ohio, regional qualifiers, regional showcases, etc, etc., how PGF is any different from ASA. You mention that they "know how to run a tournament" and "how to market their product"...respectfully asking, Len, what do you mean by that?
The vast majority of readers and their DD's will NEVER make it to 16u Nats in Huntington, and from what I've learned from all the PGF banter, that's where the difference is, so...
I will remain skeptical until I see some real difference at the regional level, because that's where the majority of readers and their dd's live.
PS. My DD's team is playing a mix of ASA, PGF and TCS events this summer, so I have no "dog" in this one.
The vast majority of readers and their DD's will NEVER make it to 16u Nats in Huntington, and from what I've learned from all the PGF banter, that's where the difference is, so...
I will remain skeptical until I see some real difference at the regional level, because that's where the majority of readers and their dd's live.
PS. My DD's team is playing a mix of ASA, PGF and TCS events this summer, so I have no "dog" in this one.
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Very legit question - the difference as you stated is the Nationals and in time will be the regional format. You should be skeptical of every sanctioning body - as everyone should be. Teams should choose their schedules based on the event - not the sanctioning body.
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ASA caters to all forms of softball. PGF caters ONLY to girl's fastpitch. USSSA caters to multiple sports. PONY caters to baseball and softball.
If PGF did not know how to run a tournament or market their product then how did they make so much noise in a very short amount of time? Why has Stringrays switched over to PGF?
The vast majority of readers do not make it to ASA/USA 16u nationals either. Just about anyone can go to an ASA regional. They are handed out like candy.
Go to the PGF website. Look at the sponsors they have garnered in a very short amount of time. Ask Warren how many states are being represented at his regional showcase. Ask the college coaches where they are going to be. They will be where the best teams are, and the best teams are migrating to PGF. Don't get me wrong, ASA still has a strong presence but it's shine has been dulled by PGF. There is no denying that.
ASA has been around since the 1930's. PGF has been around only 4 years or so. In a very short amount of time PGF has become a major player, and the very best teams in the nation would rather play a PGF national over an ASA national if they were played at the same time. History proved that a few years ago. The best teams are migrating to PGF....believe it. Even your own team is now mixing in PGF. Why do you think that is? It's because that's where the best teams will be.
You can remain skeptical. Differences are happening already at the regional level. Tournaments that were once ASA are switching over to PGF. A change in the guard appears to be looming.
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This is the truth, no doubt about it.
I know a coach who had a 1st year 10u team last summer. His goal was to get his team qualified for easterns so he pretty much loaded his schedule with ENQs and they won a few of them. Mission accomplished.
He was pretty mad when I told him that all he had to do is tell the guy who ran that tournament that he wanted to play in it and he would have got an invite. I actually heard the guy invite no less than 10 teams that didn't actually qualify.
Neither here nor there, but I think it's hilarious when a team gets in like that and then uses it to promote their team when they are trying to get kids to come to their tryout.
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At the end of the day the team is the consumer, consumers purchase where good product is given. If any service brand shoots themselves in the foot on a Regional basis, let's say NSA a few years back in Tealtown, it's taken a long time to regroup there Regionally from the black eye whoever ran that gave NSA..... It will all come down to the product and services offered and people will always flock to the hottest thing until it burns them as well. Not saying that will happen with PGF and would hope it doesn't as it is getting girls ball up to a greater level. But it too is just another entity until the next entity with the hot product comes along.
The buyer has the last say with any organization as with anything.......
The buyer has the last say with any organization as with anything.......
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finally some real insight from you guys... even if some of you want to attack the OP with sarcasm but that seems to be the norm from some of the people here on OFC ( and usually the same ones) burst your ego balloon! lol
thanks for all the reply's. Always remember.... don't As-s u-me things you don't know, -ASK and if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all. Now I have a way better understanding of this and thank you all for your input. Happy Holidays!
thanks for all the reply's. Always remember.... don't As-s u-me things you don't know, -ASK and if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all. Now I have a way better understanding of this and thank you all for your input. Happy Holidays!
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I agree that ASA and PGF are the strongest. In the younger ages, it is about the experience and competition. As you get older, it is all about the exposure. My DD has been to PGF nationals and to ASA. Both are good. PGF does seem to be the up and comer but both are good. I have noticed PGF competition may be a bit stronger. Locally, the to tournaments are still the ones you want to attend, regardless of sanctioning body. Stingrays, Lasers, GAPSS, Best of the Best etc.. ASA Gold is really good competition. Tough thing there is no pool games, blind draw - get a tough one and you could be out after 1 or 2 games.
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finally some real insight from you guys... even if some of you want to attack the OP with sarcasm but that seems to be the norm from some of the people here on OFC ( and usually the same ones) burst your ego balloon! lol
thanks for all the reply's. Always remember.... don't As-s u-me things you don't know, -ASK and if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all. Now I have a way better understanding of this and thank you all for your input. Happy Holidays!
2on2outs - You never answered...which team are you with? Look us up some time this summer and say hi.
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thanks fla - will do! not with any team yet. my dd will be looking to join a team soon and this information will be a great help when talking to prospective coaches /orgs about their tourney schedules and help us make a better decision. thanks to all that replied.
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lol . thats all
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And a restaurant is just people eating food?
Different strokes for different folks. Teams should play wherever is right for them.
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And a restaurant is just people eating food?
No. A restaurant is a business, it can't be mistaken for much else. What does P.G.F. stand for? Premier Girls Fastpitch or sommat like that? It sounds nice. It sounds like good intentions. Seriously.
Honestly I'm ok with someone starting something like the P.G.F. and running it like a business, how about a little honesty though? How about a name like P.A.Y.D.A.Y.? I'm not sure how to make that sound like an organization that is supposed to be about advancing youth sports, but at least no one can confuse it for anything other than what it is, right? What about M.E.A.L.T.I.C.K.E.T.? Unfortunately you'll have to use your imagination and fill in the blanks with this one too, but I hope one of you entrepreneurs reading this takes one or both of them and runs with it.
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Shortgame, after SoCal clearly broke down the costs and everything else, how is it that PGF is a money grab as compared to ASA? There is clearly one organization charging their fee up front (PGF) and another (ASA) getting it over time with gate fees, concessions, parking, length of tournament, etc... I support both organizations completely as I think they do a tremendous service for the players and families, but neither do it for free. Does anyone really believe ASA is not a business or making money? How can the numbers and benefits be put in plain sight on this post and still have anyone saying PGF is nothing but a meal ticket? It just seems on the surface to be a dishonest argument. Are you saying that it is wrong for both ASA and PGF to make any money or just PGF???
