Hitting and Hitters Discussion Bunting Rules Change?

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After sitting in on the rules interpretation meeting at the coaches meeting today, and listening to the interpreter explain the difference between a slap and a drag bunt on a third strike, which is an out and which is a foul ball. Confusing or not?

I believe a rules change should be considered, where you can bunt a third strike with no penalty of being called out for fouling the pitch off, it would just be considered a foul ball. This would definately clear up any confusion over the attempt being a bunt or a slap. I also believe it could add more offense to a game that alot of people believe is to pitcher oriented.

What are your thoughts and feelings?

 

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I myself like the rules as they are. It IS a pitchers game in my eyes. This reminds me of the new rules they adopted in the NFL to baby the quarteback and to protect him from getting sacked(In the grasp rule). Just like the 43 ft. rule for gold, which was intended for the batter, I say play it like it is. Of course I am nobody ;D. Just throwing in my opinion.

 

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There could be a lot more offense added to the game by taking the pitcher out and putting in a tee to hit off of.

 

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Thats a great idea, but I think it would be alot harder to bunt off of a tee.
I am not trying to start anything, just starting an unusual topic for open discussion.
Where did the idea really come from to make a bunted third strike an out?
What were they trying to accomplish when they implemented this rule?
Any Thoughts?

 

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I don't know the reason behind the old rule, but changing it is saying that an offense cannot come up with a way to get on base. I bet whoever even considered changing the rules has been burnt by good pitching so much that they started a petition to change the rules. If your facing a great pitcher, it is the coach and players responsibility to find a way to get on base, not to change the rules. :

 

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I would assume that the rule about bunting the third strike foul comes from baseball. Do you really think not calling this an out would improve the game, and provide more offense?? I personally think it would make a mockery of the game, and make it much less interesting for the girls to play and fans to watch, not to mention the likelihood that more 3B and 1B defenders would be getting hurt playing in to defend the bunt and then having one drilled at them.

 

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It is my opinion that the rule was put in to speed up the game.
I can see a player fouling off alot of pitches and makiking an at bat last until they get that one that hugs the line or to make a pitcher throw alot of pitches.
As far as drag bunting to me its the same thing as bunting and they should be out if fouled off. slapping they are still swinging the bat so to me its not the same as a bunt.

 

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I have to concur with strike_three. A drag is a style of bunting and should be considered an out on a fouled strike 3, and slapping is a style of hitting and should not be an out on a foul strike 3.

 

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As another poster correctly guessed, this rule has its origins in baseball.

According the "The Baseball Almanac", the rule that all bunted fouls be considered strikes was first adopted by the National League in 1894. However, the upstart American League did not adopt this rule until 1903.

When the ASA first codified the rules for softball in the 1930's, they must have kept this rule on the books, along with other equally arcane rules like the uncaught third strike rule and the infield fly rule.

Out of curiosity, what guidelines did the interpreter give you for determining if the offer at the pitch was a bunt or a swing?

 

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He said that if the bat was not moving forward, being held still, that this should be considered a bunt attempt, batter is out. ?He stated that a slap was when the bat was being brought forward, in an attempt to slap the ball.
Personally, I don't think he really clarified anything. ?If you are an umpire and you don't know the difference between a drag bunt and a slap this clarification won't change a thing.
I coach and umpire, I understand the difference, but some don't, and they won't understand it any better after their rules meetings.

Once again, I'm not pushing to change the rule, just trying to stimulate some talk on an interesting topic.
I personally think they put the rule in baseball because they felt players were making a mockery of the game as coachjb stated in his post. ?But small ball is an important part of fastpitch and I don't feel that would be the case in softball. ?As far as getting first and third baseman hurt is crazy, my kids play the same no matter what the count is.
Back up against my team with 2 strikes and I'll bunt.

Strike three stated it was put in to speed the games up, in HS ball maybe, but whens the last time you've been to a travel ball game that wasn't already under a time limit, wouldn't make a bit of difference. LOL JS!!

 

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Lady Knights,

The definition your rule interpreter gave seems to be the one I've always used in umpiring games. And, it is the accepted interpretation I've always heard in clinics and rules meetings.

This comes into play much more in softball than in baseball, where there is an added emphasis on slap bunting and the short game. Too bad you seem to have some umpires that don't know the difference.

Here's hoping that we all see better educated umpires in 2006!

 

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Bretman:

If the 2006 umpires are half as good as you, we should consider ourselves lucky. I'm hoping that you will continue your contributions here, as I've learned much from you.

 

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I am with cgs, your Case Book knowledge is a great help here bretman, Thank You!!

 

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Your kind words are appreciated!

I think that you will find what separates the "good" from the "bad" umpires is that the good ones make an extra effort to learn the basics and then to continually improve.

Since becoming an umpire I've attended clinics and rules meetings, read and re-read the rule books, hunted down textbooks on the subject and actively participated in about a half-dozen internet discussion boards about baseball and softball rules.

Eventually, even with my thick skull, something has to stick! ;D

Sadly, it seems that there are many umpires out there that don't have the drive to learn or improve their game. They are set in their ways and take any effort to improve their knowledge as an affront to their umpiring skills.

Even sadder, the sanctioning bodies don't seem dedicated to education and improvement. I know that when I first decided to become ASA registered, all I had to do was attend a couple of meetings and pay my annual dues. And that was it. To tests, no clinics, no field training, no evaluations.

Just pay the cash and you too can be a brand-spanking new, officially registered ASA umpire. You might not know the difference between a bunt and a slap, or interference and obstruction, or even a ball and a strike, but will be an ASA umpire, eligible for tournament assignments.

Kind of scary when you think about it.