Calling Bretman, Rule interpretation

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Foul tip on 3rd strike, catcher has ball bounce off chest pad juggles around alittle then catches in glove.
Ball never touches ground.

Some were saying that it had to be fielded clean or its a foul ball only.
Others plus blue said it was an out same as if it went straight to the glove.

What's the rule.
Thanks
 
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I would think its an out, no different than if a 1st or 3rd baseman would have bobbled a pop up.
 
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I would have to go with an out - on the juggle - did not hit the ground.
 
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saw a similar incident in the USA v. Canada softball game the other night....foul-tipped third strike landed right in the catchers lap...never touched ground or glove and it was considered an out
 
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Saw this happen during the USA/Canada game on Saturday. It was ruled a strike out.
 
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What is the call if the foul tip hits the umpire and goes straight up and the catcher catches it??? Is it still an out???
 
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What is the call if the foul tip hits the umpire and goes straight up and the catcher catches it??? Is it still an out???

Don't think so.. Foul off umpire is the same as foul off backstop.
 
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SECTION 27 FOUL TIP
A foul tip is a batted ball that goes directly from the bat, not higher than the batters head, to the catcher’s hands or glove/mitt, and is legally caught by the catcher. A foul tip is a strike. The batter is out if it is the third strike. A foul tip remains alive. A runner may advance with liability to be put out from one base to another on a foul tip without tagging. The foul tip is treated as if it were a swing and miss. A batted ball that travels directly from the bat not higher than the batter’s head to any part of the catcher’s body or equipment other than the hand(s) or glove/mitt is a foul ball is dead and is not a foul tip. A batted ball that goes higher than the batter’s head is a foul ball and it is not a foul tip. If legally caught, the batter is out.
NOTE: Any foul tip is a strike, and the ball is in play.

My opinion - If it doesn't go directly to or into the glove then it's just a foul ball. Could see where this would cause a heated argument during a close game!
 
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The ruling can be different depending on the path that the ball takes from the bat to the catcher.

One of the biggest sources of confusion when discussing foul tips is that people generically refer to any ball that barely nicks the bat and goes backwards as a "foul tip". But a foul tip has a very specific definition and very strict requirements. Most of the batted balls that people call "foul tips" aren't really foul tips at all!

Such a batted ball might come off the bat in two possible ways- either sharply, directly, in a straight line, with no perceptible arc or with an arcing path.

Assuming that the ball does go "sharply and directly" (ie: with no perceptible arc to it's path) straight back to the catcher...

1) If the batted ball FIRST touches the catcher's hands or mitt, then is subsequently caught, this is a foul tip. A foul tip is treated the same as a swing and miss by the batter. It is a strike and the ball remains live. The batter is out only if it is strike three.

The subsequent catch has to meet the same definition of any other valid catch of a batted ball. That is, it can't touch the batter, the umpire or the ground. If it does, then it immediately becomes just a foul ball and is treated like any other foul ball.

As long as the ball FIRST touches the hands/mitt, then it may rebound, or be juggled, or be trapped against the catcher's body before eventually being secured.

2) If the ball goes straight back, sharply and directly, with no perceptible arc, but then first touches anything other than the catcher's hands or mitt, then it is just a plain old foul ball.

I was watching the USA/Canada game yesterday but didn't see the play mentioned. If what was described above is truly exactly what happened, then I would have to say the umpires blew that one. If the ball went straight, sharply and directly, to the catcher's lap, then it should have been a foul ball.

Are you sure the ball didn't come off the bat with an arcing path? Because, if it did, then a different rule comes into play...

3) If the ball comes off the bat with an arcing path (ie: NOT sharply, directly, in a straight line) then it CANNOT be a foul tip. It is now treated exactly the same as a batted fly ball anywhere else on the playing field. If legally caught (and there is no requirement for it to first touch the hands/mitt here), then the batter is out- same as on any other caught fly ball.

The only other note...I'm not sure where the above definition of a foul tip came from, but most rule sets have removed the whole thing about the ball being "higher than the batter's head". For most, there is no height restriction or requirement attached to these rules.
 
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looked for youtube video cannot find it but I watched the USA/Canada game on TV too and I don't recall the ball hitting the glove at all- (just bat) and then straight to catchers lap....anyone else recall?
 
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I know that sometimes the plate umpire has a really hard time seeing if the ball is cleanly caught. When it gets nicked straight back, a lot of the time all you really have a good view of is the back of the catcher! Then, the next thing you'll see is the catcher with the ball in her glove. It's easy to get fooled into thinking there was a catch, when there wasn't.

Pending any further details or video...it sounds like this umpire got fooled...
 
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Jenn, you are correct. The ball went straight down off the bat and into the catchers lap.
 
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2) If the ball goes straight back, sharply and directly, with no perceptible arc, but then first touches anything other than the catcher's hands or mitt, then it is just a plain old foul ball...

I was watching the USA/Canada game yesterday but didn't see the play mentioned. If what was described above is truly exactly what happened, then I would have to say the umpires blew that one. If the ball went straight, sharply and directly, to the catcher's lap, then it should have been a foul ball.
Plain old foul ball caught, would be an out...correct or no?
 
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Plain old foul ball caught, would be an out...correct or no?

If the ball went sharply straight back, then it's just foul. There can be no catch for an out, as there is on a batted fly ball, unless the ball comes off the bat with perceptible arc.
 
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...As long as the ball FIRST touches the hands/mitt, then it may rebound, or be juggled, or be trapped against the catcher's body before eventually being secured...

I had not been aware of this before. The rule states that the ball must go directly from the bat to the catcher's hand or glove. Given this, how can it be bobbled or juggled then eventually caught and still be considered a foul tip? I've been wrong before, but I just don't see how the "directly from the bat to the hand or glove" language allows for a bobbled or juggled ball to still be a potential foul tip.
 
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This one in particular was a sharp straight line, into the chest pad of the catcher and then juggled it with her hands before it went into the mitt.

Just have never seen it before.

Also Blues partner was not going to override him.

Thanks
 
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I had not been aware of this before. The rule states that the ball must go directly from the bat to the catcher's hand or glove. Given this, how can it be bobbled or juggled then eventually caught and still be considered a foul tip? I've been wrong before, but I just don't see how the "directly from the bat to the hand or glove" language allows for a bobbled or juggled ball to still be a potential foul tip.

If the ball goes straight from the bat to the hands or mitt, then it has met the requirement of the rule. Note that the rule doesn't say that the ball can't go anywhere else after touching the hands or mitt.

You're trying to place a condition/restriction/qualifier on the rule that simply doen't exist.

This ruling is reinforced by interpretation and case play. I don't have those handy right now...but I can get them.
 

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