Hitting and Hitters Discussion Calling Bretman - Rules question

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Calling on Bretman or others who may know the answer to this question:

Situation - team has 9 players. One of the girls sustains an injury. When her team goes back on defense, they hold the girl back and only play 8 in the field. When they come to bat, the injured girl hits in her normal spot in the order. Is this permitted?

 

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Yes, and if she can't bat you can play with 8 and take the out. It's not fun, but I won a game wth 8 once.

 

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SBFamily, thanks for the reply. I knew you could play with 8 and take the out if the injured/missing player wasn't able to bat. I wasn't sure if there was some rule that said if the player didn't participate in the field leaving only 8 that they couldn't also bat. I didn't think this would be the case but I thought I would check witht the forum.

 

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Believe you'd have to re-enter her before she bats as by definition she has been removed from the game by not taking the field.

 

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I'm going to have to disagree with all of the answers given so far. Going by USSSA rules (Rule 6, Sec 2) you can continue to play with 8 players, however the injured player cannot bat for herself once removed. In fact, she cannot reenter during the same game in which she was removed from the field of play due to injury. The only exception to this is the blood rule (player removed to stop a bleeding cut/abrasion).

USSSA rules are usually not that different from other sanctioning bodies, but I'd like to hear if any of the others would allow her to reenter after leaving the game for an injury.

 

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I was wondering if a different sanctioning body might have a different rule. Substitutions are one area where you see a lot of rule differences between rule sets.

The ASA rule is that the player who left the game cannot return to the line-up. (This does not apply if the player left the game under the "blood rule&quot. You can continue to play shorthanded, then can put in a sub if one arrives. (See "Shorthanded Rule" 4-D)

 

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Interesting on all the different scenarios...wait till bucksalum tells you what actually happened and the result. Watched this game and was sure it would show up on here this week .

 

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I trust Bretman to be correct. ASA tourney in Marion, Oh. Girl gets hit by the ball and leaves the field to get ice. We now have only 8 players on defense. . Umpire tells us she must bat or take the out and play wth 8. Now from what Bretman is telling me the umpire was wrong and we got a break, because she came to bat. . I think we also did this in an NSA tourney, because we were only batting 9 . Interesting, I can't wait to look up the NSA rule.

 

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What constitutes leaving the game, to me it's being taken out of the batting lineup. I can't recall seeing it anywhere in a rulebook that states I have to play with all 9 fielders, on the field, it just says I have to bat 9 or take an out.
If I only bring 8 players out on the field, and leave one on the bench, hurt or not, I don't think an umpire or the other team, could force you to put all nine on the field. I would have to see the specific rule, that says you have to field all nine.

 

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Speaking ASA rules...

Rules Supplement #48 states that "Playing shorthanded is not a strategic option for a coach".

In other words, if you have a player available to fill one of the nine defensive positions described under Rule 4-1-C, that player must take the field. If she does not, then you are now playing shorthanded and all of the requirements of the shorthanded rule are in effect (ie: that player may not return to the game- she is, effectively, disqualified).

Once the player refused to take a defensive position in the field, I would rule her as being "out of the game". If no sub was available, the game would continue with eight fielders and an automatic out in the disqualified player's batting spot.

 

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bucksalum did not witness the game so I will attempt to recount the best I can what happened and others can help me if I mees it up. The girl did not play defense in the top of the inning as the other (away) batted and is ahead; the home team only fielded 8 because all subs have been utilized. It is going to be the last inning and everyone knows it. I believe the injured player was due to come up 5th or 6th when the home team came upto bat.. The home team comes up for their last at bats and gets a rally going and is closing the gap. Injured player comes up to bat and hits a line drive down 3rd and scores 2 runs. Opposing coach questions that she did not reenter or report and should be an illeagal player and thus out and the runners return to their bases. A discussion continues and at the end of it hit stands and runners score. Eventually injured player scores and home team wins to advance to the championship game. The only thing I can't remember is the number of outs when the injured player came up to bat. Neither team was dd's.... we were going to face the winner if we advanced through our semi.

 

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Speaking ASA rules...

Rules Supplement #48 states that "Playing shorthanded is not a strategic option for a coach".

In other words, if you have a player available to fill one of the nine defensive positions described under Rule 4-1-C, that player must take the field. If she does not, then you are now playing shorthanded and all of the requirements of the shorthanded rule are in effect (ie: that player may not return to the game- she is, effectively, disqualified).

Once the player refused to take a defensive position in the field, I would rule her as being "out of the game". If no sub was available, the game would continue with eight fielders and an automatic out in the disqualified player's batting spot.

I think that clears that up.

Now to muddy the waters again. Say the player was injured while playing defense and you substituted for her but the sub did not cause you to play shorthanded; can the injured player reenter using normal substitution rules?

 

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bucksalum did not witness the game so I will attempt to recount the best I can what happened and others can help me if I mees it up. The girl did not play defense in the top of the inning as the other (away) batted and is ahead; the home team only fielded 8 because all subs have been utilized. It is going to be the last inning and everyone knows it. I believe the injured player was due to come up 5th or 6th when the home team came upto bat.. The home team comes up for their last at bats and gets a rally going and is closing the gap. Injured player comes up to bat and hits a line drive down 3rd and scores 2 runs. Opposing coach questions that she did not reenter or report and should be an illeagal player and thus out and the runners return to their bases. A discussion continues and at the end of it hit stands and runners score. Eventually injured player scores and home team wins to advance to the championship game. The only thing I can't remember is the number of outs when the injured player came up to bat. Neither team was dd's.... we were going to face the winner if we advanced through our semi.

Hmm. NSA rule seems like this may have been allowable. See rule 4-4-C:

When a team is left with a vacant spot in the lineup because of a player as described in Sec. 4 (b), the opposing team may not, with two outs, intentionally or unintentionally walk the previous batter in order to get the "AUTOMATIC OUT" created by the vacant spot in the batting order. This would also include catcher obstruction to the previous batter or the previous batter being hit by a legal or illegally pitched ball. If the previous batter is walked or hit by a legal or illegally pitched ball, the vacant spot is skipped, the "AUTOMATIC OUT" is waived, and the next batter is the player whose name follows the vacant spot in the batting order. This only applies when there are two (2) outs.

NOTE: If a team has a vacant spot and a substitute arrives [highlight]or the original player can play again, he/she must be inserted immediately into the vacant spot.[/highlight]

 

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1. ? ?It looks like the NHHS rules are different it all goes by batting order, but you must start the game with 9. ?3-11 ?3-d 4-3. If I'm reading it right Lady Knight is correct.

2. I'm reading the ASA rule 4-5 and it clearly states anyone can ?re enter once. So doesn't this contradict 4-1 C.. ? I have a hard time with the available part of this sentence. ?So she is hurt, ?but shouldn't be on the field. I tell her to set in left field with her ice pack on , since the rule books says she can't set on the bench because she is available. ?

Thanks CShilt: I thought NSA was different.

 

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How about starting the game, we had a player get hurt last year during a pre game warmup (hit with a foul ball), had to go to the hospital. The umps told us we had to start the game with 9 or we forfeit. Girl had to rush back to the field, stand in the outfield, we took the out when she was supposed to bat.

 

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Was an ASA tourney.

 

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How about starting the game, we had a player get hurt last year during a pre game warmup (hit with a foul ball), had to go to the hospital. The umps told us we had to start the game with 9 or we forfeit. Girl had to rush back to the field, stand in the outfield, we took the out when she was supposed to bat.

Rules seem to indicate that you do have to start with 9, but can finish with 8.

(I like questions like this; I usually end up learning a lot)

 

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Sorry this one I knew you could start with 8. ?4. 1 D ASA, ?Only in high school does it say you must start with 9. ?I'm not sure of the rest, but I know I have had only 8 show up on more than one game and had to start with only 8. ?Makes you feel even better to win with only 8!


Here is the USAAA Rule 5 sect 3 page 20. You must have 9 to start, but can play with 8, after the start of the game..
I don't have my NSA rule book with me, but I think it is like ASA. NCAA, is also 9.