Coaches-what would YOU do????

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I would be careful assuming the players are illegal. I have legally picked up and dropped a few players this year using the rostering processes and working with our local commissioners. In three cases they were qualifiers and for various reasons (school ball, injury, illness) we were short handed .

 

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They knowingly play under another name??? There's fraud right there. No ifs ands or buts

 

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Yea I don't know how u can get away with that. There are no secrets with kids, or even parents for that matter.

 

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One would think parents would run far away from teams/coaches where they ask your DD to play as a different name!

 

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I think if you know the girl is too old, say something right away. She shouldnt be able to play you or anyone else. Beyond that I dont see an issue with using a sub if you're down a player. Girls get hurt and sick, families take vacations, players quit. It happens. I'm not going to forfeit or play a mid july tourney in 90+ degrees a player down because bringing in a sub might rock the boat.

 

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Once you confront the other coach with it, it is going to cause a scene ... that's why you take it to the TD as soon as you become aware of it, and say that you have reason to believe that so and so has illegal players and why. At that point, it's up to the TD to look into it and resolve any breaking of the rules. If we play the team later and the players are still present, then I'm not going to do anything about it ... there either was some explanation or it's a no-win situation for me and my team to bring it up again.

I see your points, but any action at all is almost certainly going to cause a scene. The poster said they were 100% sure they were illegal. So, if you go to the TD and then accept any of his/her actions which is potentially no action, you would accept that?

 

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It even goes on at the older age groups. We played in an ASA qualifier in Ashland. The other team had a guest player from what is considered an elite team that had aready qualified for Nationals. She played in Nationals out west later that year. Her dad is a coach and should know the rules.

 

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Even in the different World Series events that could go a week, I hated when mine subbed and another sat, but in that instance they needed subs to ease the week long load of fatigue, but I still cringed knowing she was taking a spot that week, but the whole team welcomed the two subs due to the duration and fatigue....

 

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If its the same one as I am thinking they are doing it again. Played 2 weeks ago for one team, will be with dad's team this weekend.

 

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Just to be clear again, I see several legitimate reasons to sub and/or re-roster players ... end of season nationals when others aren't going, non qualifying tourneys and showcases, last minute injury, etc. But if it's a qualifier and another team is picking up a player that is either too old, or a stud player illegally, then I have an issue with it and would turn it into the TD. But yes, shummel, if the TD either OK's it or doesn't do anything about it, then I am not going to do anything else at that point to create a scene. I would probably try to talk to the TD prior to the game to find out the resolution and if I thought the TD just outright failed to do anything about it when they should have, then I for sure won't be coming back again the next year. I've had situations occur when an opposing coach approached me before a game and told me they were short a player and picked up a younger sister or a friend who plays rec ball, and I've had no issue with that ... but that's different than going and picking up a couple of Lasers players who were off that week for a qualifier that is a goal of my team's.

 

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This is amazing that this post was seen 2300 times in 24 hours. Wow, catchy titles get your attention eh?
There has been some amazing discussion going on here, and I think this is good and healthy for all of us. I remind the original intent of the post was to inquire as to what coaches would do if faced in this situation. Would you bring this to the TD's attention? At what point? We got off on some tangents regarding the acceptable usage of pickup players and the fact that sometimes players are actually not illegal. We all get that, boys. Some teams might be finished playing NSA tourneys, which makes their players eligible for pickup for teams still playing NSA tourneys later in the season. We all get that too. My original point was this....undisputable illegal players brought into a tourney to play on the Delaware Dirt Diamond Divas AS Sally & Megan (who both went to Sally's Uncle Ted's house in Gatlinburg, Tennesee for a family reunion). These pickup players are really "Kristin", (stud top 10 team 12U starting SS) & "Kaitlen" (even studlier lefty slapper starting CF from another top 10 12U team). Kristin normally plays for the "All-Ohio D1 Blue Chips" & Kaitlen plays for "Midwest 12U Unbeatables". Both teams are off this weekend, but have several more ASA tournaments planned for later this summer & you know this for a fact. (Good intel about your competition is valuable in business as well as softball!)
Disclaimer-please Be it known that the names & positions of these players are totally fictitious but were provided to give you the exact impression of what goes on, and any likeness to actual teams, players and abilities similar to said players either alive or dead is purely coincidental. NO, I am not a lawyer, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night!
So, Kristin & Kaitlen are playing as & answering to "Sally & Megan" for the Delaware Dirt Diamond Divas in an ASA Eastern Nationals Qualifier in Walla Walla Ohio this weekend. Your team is playing in that same tournament & you had high hopes to earn your berth to the ASA Nationals in this tourney.
Kristin & Kaitlen proceed to be such studs for the Delaware Dirt Diamond Divas that they are now in the Sunday Semi-finals against your team. Kristin has been a beast at SS all weekend long & has gone 9-11 at the plate with 3 triples & one grand slam HR. Kaitlin has been equally a beast in Centerfield, catching everything hit near her & going 9-13 with 2 doubles, and steals bases like a thief.
Now what do you do?

(gosh, I should write some fiction story about this....this is fun!):lmao:

 

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Let's think of a "code of ethics" much like your work or life. If you know something and do nothing about it-you are just as guilty.

It's a no brainer. We are the adults and these girls need to be taught proper ethics. Maybe if they get caught enough, the players and the parents would get that it is wrong. I will never allow a girl take the field illegally for me and sure will not stand by and allow a little girl (who is probably forming their rights and wrongs) to be subject to this act. 9 chances out of 10 the parents and the girl may not even know they are doing something wrong. Not a lot of people know sanction rules.

This is just my opinion-and like it or not. I am sleeping well at night.

 

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Personally, I don't care how they stack a team. I'm going to play our team against whatever they walk out on the field. These games are win win for us because if we beat them they boost our confidence like nothing else. If we lose, we have every excuse in the book on why we should never win that game. I have always wanted my teams to play against the best out there. The girls need to see how they stack up against them and learn what the difference is between them and that hot team we're playing. In many cases they learn it's simply confidence and a game or 2 with these teams can improve my team's everyday effort more than a summer's worth of practices.

 

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Let's think of a "code of ethics" much like your work or life. If you know something and do nothing about it-you are just as guilty.

It's a no brainer. We are the adults and these girls need to be taught proper ethics. Maybe if they get caught enough, the players and the parents would get that it is wrong. I will never allow a girl take the field illegally for me and sure will not stand by and allow a little girl (who is probably forming their rights and wrongs) to be subject to this act. 9 chances out of 10 the parents and the girl may not even know they are doing something wrong. Not a lot of people know sanction rules.

This is just my opinion-and like it or not. I am sleeping well at night.

I agree with Coach Steph here. Ethics. We are all caretakers of this game and have a responsibility to be role models for our players and kids. We do not have to be perfect, but man have a little class and character coaches. If I see something unethical and 100% positive, I have an obligation to the game to call it out. We have to approach this game, as in life, with respect and character. Noone is a perfect saint, but make an effort to do the right thing and set a positive example. If you do not understand that we are teaching these kids life lessons in with the runs and outs, then your are in it for the wrong reasons.

 

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Daboss ... I agree with you 99% of the time, but just want to clarify something ... so let's say you are about to play against a team has a player who is very good but is too old to play in this age group ... say she was 13 at the beginning of the year but is playing down with a 12-U team and they have 10 or more dressed players. Do you not say anything and use it as an excuse if you lose? What if she's 14 or 15 ... where do you draw the line, or isn't there one, or are you only talking about a team picking up someone from another team who is age eligible?

I agree with the others (as I'm sure you do as well) who say teaching your players ethics is as important as anything else, and I'm thinking that losing to another team they hear has not followed ethical behavior isn't a very good lesson for them ... like "it pays to cheat" ...

 

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I agree with Coach Steph here. Ethics. We are all caretakers of this game and have a responsibility to be role models for our players and kids. We do not have to be perfect, but man have a little class and character coaches. If I see something unethical and 100% positive, I have an obligation to the game to call it out. We have to approach this game, as in life, with respect and character. Noone is a perfect saint, but make an effort to do the right thing and set a positive example. If you do not understand that we are teaching these kids life lessons in with the runs and outs, then your are in it for the wrong reasons.

Here here!!!!! All of us have a memory of that "one" coach from our youth, whether it was softball, baseball, track, of whatever. That memory of that "one" coach can be either because of the positive indelible impression they left on you, or the negative indelible impression. Either way, it is an indelible impression.
What mark do you want to leave? I know that I, for one, look forward to the day when I'm fat & retired and I bump into some 35 year old mother at the mall & she turns to her kids & says "Kids, I want you to met Coach Chris....this is the coach I told you about from when I played softball." That day will come, coaches!!

 

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Report to the TD as soon as you know.

In my opinion this is all driven by the egos of the adults involved not the players. Sad what adults will do to win or have their dd's considered "stars". Must have had a very unfilling athletic youth.

 

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Go ahead and report it to the TD. Either the TD will deal with it or they won't. Either the sanctioning body will deal with it or they won't. You ability to do anything else is nil. Then just shut up about it and play the game. Some days you will play the Black-soxs and some days you play on a field of dreams.

Some days the Black-sox lose a game, but in the end they always lose.

 

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Thank you coachjwb for allowing me to not only agree but explain myself. My posts have been shorter lately as I feel I can get too winded and to detailed in my responses and others are reluctant to read it all. I guess I need more education on how to express my feelings with less words and I apologize to everyone. The other factor is I locked myself out from establishing paragraphs because of a setting button on the reply screen and have it working for me now. Sorry!

I DO NOT condone the breaking of any rules nor have I ever knowingly used an illegal player for a team I was coaching. While I have been told by an acquaintance we were about to play a team with an illegal player or been instructed by parents or other coaches that illegal players were participating with other teams, only once have I ever in my 19 years ever been 100% sure the information was correct. To be honest, the only protests that I witnessed to call out a girl for being illegal has always ruled in the favor of the player and NOT the protestor. Perhaps I have lived a sheltered life but the only girls I would ever question would be the ones that I have actually seen their birth certificates and know myself of their actual age. This has never happened. Causing a scene in an effort to set the record straight and finding out I would be wrong is nothing but fuel for the competition and we don't need that before a game. I'd much rather let others with the information handle those duties simply because me finding out second hand from questionable sources is sure to come back and bite me where they plan to stick a boot the following 7 innings.

While I understand there are people with with the ability to guess players' ages correctly, I have humbled myself from guessing. The kids in today's world have a magical way of looking much older than they truly are. I learned years ago I don't want to be a carnival act guessing the age or weight of a female. I'm much happier knowing what I see on the birth certificates of the girls playing for me and using second-hand information to fuel my team to give me an extra effort in an upcoming game against a questionable roster.

As far as picking up players to pad a roster, whether they are legal or illegal, I have always stepped up on my soapbox to voice my opinion against it. Most of the time it ruins the chemistry of the core of the team and sets the team up for failure throughout the course of the weekend-----------and the season. Coaches, if you want to teach a life lesson to the kids that will pay you in spades later, show them you are committed to your roster and play what you selected for the season. Families will be reluctant to return for another season if there's no insurance their money and time will be spent the right way. Stick by your team!!!

FYI, the only time I was 100% sure another team had an illegal player was because the coach told me before the game with an explanation of why he needed to have her in the line up. Yes, she was too old but was a non-factor and we won the game easily. Much easier than if they thought it was all girls the right age. They really stepped it up for 7 innings and played sharp!

 

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As far as picking up players to pad a roster, whether they are legal or illegal, I have always stepped up on my soapbox to voice my opinion against it. Most of the time it ruins the chemistry of the core of the team and sets the team up for failure throughout the course of the weekend-----------and the season. Coaches, if you want to teach a life lesson to the kids that will pay you in spades later, show them you are committed to your roster and play what you selected for the season. Families will be reluctant to return for another season if there's no insurance their money and time will be spent the right way. Stick by your team!!!

Well Said! I have been in TB for 4 years now. And I can tell you that I have experience the kid with a broken heart sitting on the bench more than once. Picking up a ringer and sitting a player on your roster is just rotten. Especially in pool play and your up 10-0. How can you expect your players to be committed to you if you are obviously not committed to them. This is your team. You picked them. Trust them. Stick with them.