Coaches; Where Do You Draw The Line?

daboss

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While following the nature of a couple of other threads, it got me thinking about coaching ethics. Where would you draw the line? Would you draw the line? Do you always follow the rules or do you feel comfortable crossing into the grey zone just because? Do you break the rules? Is it okay as long as you don't get caught? Do you consider how your actions can influence the girls or even the parents? What is your purpose? What is your intent?

I realize there are many questions being asked but the reason is to try and draw out the true nature of your involvement and your expectations, both in the moment and after the game.
 

CoachTEA

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While following the nature of a couple of other threads, it got me thinking about coaching ethics. Where would you draw the line? Would you draw the line? Do you always follow the rules or do you feel comfortable crossing into the grey zone just because? Do you break the rules? Is it okay as long as you don't get caught? Do you consider how your actions can influence the girls or even the parents? What is your purpose? What is your intent?

I realize there are many questions being asked but the reason is to try and draw out the true nature of your involvement and your expectations, both in the moment and after the game.
Daboss - thank you for engaging responses and challenging questions. Drawing the line? For me (as you stated in a different post) it is checking my motivations and focusing on what is really important in the grand scheme of things (storing our treasures in Heaven). We play sports to prepare us for life and I hope that I am first and foremost setting a good example as an adult in the nurturing and development of these young ladies. Where I "go to war" is when I see coaches (school or travel) make less than "adult decisions". I am several years past having a daughter on my team (she is 24) and I coach for the love of the players and the love of the game. I don't get paid or financially compensated in any way to do what I do; in fact this is an "expensive hobby" for me. Yes I am competitive and I like winning, but there is a much deeper satisfaction that comes from helping a player realize her dream of becoming a student athlete in college. I have been very blessed to coach very talent and smart kids as we have sent kids to over 60 different colleges - some times I/we were highly involved; other times hardly involved. I am old enough and have done this long enough that I have my former players graduated, start careers, families, etc. and the joy I receive comes from seeing wonderful outcomes and possibly being a positive example/influence in their lives. I am self-aware enough to know that everyone is going to like me or my methods and I am fine with that - and I have made mistakes (and a few enemies) along the way and hopefully I am still learning from my mistakes.
 

Passion4theGame

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Daboss - thank you for engaging responses and challenging questions. Drawing the line? For me (as you stated in a different post) it is checking my motivations and focusing on what is really important in the grand scheme of things (storing our treasures in Heaven). We play sports to prepare us for life and I hope that I am first and foremost setting a good example as an adult in the nurturing and development of these young ladies. Where I "go to war" is when I see coaches (school or travel) make less than "adult decisions". I am several years past having a daughter on my team (she is 24) and I coach for the love of the players and the love of the game. I don't get paid or financially compensated in any way to do what I do; in fact this is an "expensive hobby" for me. Yes I am competitive and I like winning, but there is a much deeper satisfaction that comes from helping a player realize her dream of becoming a student athlete in college. I have been very blessed to coach very talent and smart kids as we have sent kids to over 60 different colleges - some times I/we were highly involved; other times hardly involved. I am old enough and have done this long enough that I have my former players graduated, start careers, families, etc. and the joy I receive comes from seeing wonderful outcomes and possibly being a positive example/influence in their lives. I am self-aware enough to know that everyone is going to like me or my methods and I am fine with that - and I have made mistakes (and a few enemies) along the way and hopefully I am still learning from my mistakes.
You Nailed it Tim! This post right here is part of the reason I respect you & Lance so much!
Good Stuff!
 

Stedman00

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I will not coach to lose on purpose, exploiting some tourney rules. I will.not inject myself into games as a coach to influence the game. Ie 5 time outs to milk the clock.. I will not ride the umps like a diaper as to every play and call. Neither will.my parents.

I will not coach my players on "grey area" plays to make.

I will roster bat whenever possible and make all.changes to maximize exposure to all players to any coaches that ask.

Long list of how to coach the 'right way'.
Have I lost games because I refuse to be "that coach", yep. But have I had parents acknowledge and back.my efforts to coach their DD's the right way? Absolutely.
 
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HunterDiaz

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You are right in this.
It’s all about good character...


If you as a coach have good character/ethics, you will instill that into your teams and it will connect all parties.

Some examples I have seen over the years of poor sportsmanship / coaches/parents cheating are:

#1 SUBs,
This is mostlikely the biggest area where teams and coaches find themselves in a posistion to cheat or bend the rules.
Most never get caught but there are some teams caught that try to slide older players onto their teams or, have players playing not on their roster or, properly insured. I seen this happen a lot in the Fall Ball play leagues and Fall tournaments we played in. Most coaches and TD's overlooked it as it was more about playing than winning in the fall. A lot of fall events are going OPEN, HS or 13 and under to avoid the age issues.
Most of the coaches that do this in the summer is because they never built a summer roster and are short players with small rosters or they do not have any depth to the roster. Anyone remember the time when players had to be released to play in sanction play with another team?
Now from what I have seen these summer subs in most cases do not help with W’s as these teams generally also struggle on the field as well.

I have not seen this in a while but, some showcse events would allow players to play for more than one team in pool play, roster bat, open subsitutions. (most tournaments had a diffrent set of rules for bracket play and a roster was susposed to be turned in prior to the first bracket play game).
There are organizations however where they plan to swap players throughout a tournament. Now sometimes when communicated properly there may be a good reason with injuries if using like age or younger and its a switch for the whole tournament bracket play, but there are organizations / teams that will show up to events and have ladies play on two teams in bracket play as they are looking to get an advantage.

#2 Coaches that are in the umpires ear from the opening pitch or before the game even starts.
We have all seen "That Coach" that thinks he or she knows the rules (especially pitching) better than the umpires. In HS ball it drags out the games in travel ball it shortens the games both are seemingly getting worse every season. Most do this to try to rattle pitchers or hitters knowing there are no issues but stopping play to kill momentum or to play head games. This is mostlikely one of the worst things that could be done to the game and the players.

#3 Bats are another hot issue.
I remember a thread a few years back where a coach was offering bat rolling services and the links that were posted for professionally altered or clone bats. This still goes on today when you see that 120lb girl blasting 250' bombs.
Easton Ghost are the bat of choice now for alterations. Back a few years ago it was Demarini, Miken, Easton Stealth.
Now this is not a altered bat situation but, while at a QDS event in Rock Hill South Carolina in 2011 there was a player swinging a Miken Ultra II (the Hottest Bat ever produced). A couple parents questioned the umpire, and he said this is an OPEN non sanctioned event players can swing any softball bat they want. Man was there some balls crushed that weekend with doctored bats. Kurt the TD director has his SUV parked out beyond RF fence about 275 and lost a windshield.

The question of ethical involvement in youth sports goes beyond just a coach or a team and their play. Parents and TDs also can get caught up in bending the rules.
Like some organizations there is also TDs that "over commit and under deliver". With the ever-increasing cost to play game, game guarantees, the length of the games, field prep, umpires, even game balls are getting squeezed. Teams pay for advertised "top notch events" but are getting second rate events in a lot of cases. We have played in blind draw events that did not have a public draw. Naturally home teams or connected teams seemed to catch some of the sweet start times, fields etc. Now in pool play at some showcase events this was common that coaches try to get in a pool with the top teams for more player exposure and some organizations have enough connections to get their teams in the top pools.

As we talk about "ethics in sports" it "expands off the field" as some teams / organizations have very loose team accounting with no system of accountability or where the fees go. There are a lot of organizations with 501c3 that are used improperly or for personal use.
Some teams/organizations try to work around STP, parking, cooler policies etc. I remember an event in Chicago where a team was caught issuing wrist bands to their families for the 4-day event to try to get out of the gate fee.

Recruiting videos, me and our coaches would look at some of our opposing teams by watching the recruiting videos they posted or game film they posted.
Most were good quality and done correctly but if you know what to look in a recruiting video you can tell the ones where the bases are altered/shortened, Pitching speed or distance altered or, while hitting they are using HOT Dots or Dudley Thunder ZN12 Exhibition 550comp-52core balls or any similar ball that will launch off any bat.

While its not cheating, Teams and Parents purchase equipment to give their players a "competitive advantage". (The haves and have not's)... You see this a lot in school ball where some teams are using used play it again sports equipment, Wal-Mart undersized gloves or, $40 bats playing against teams swinging $400 bats, with proper fitting catchers gear and a catchers mitt, first baseman has a proper glove mitt, most of these players arealso wearing impact protection etc. Having been around the game over 30 years the right equipment can make an average player good and a good player - very good.

Its only a matter of time before HS has to start drug testing for PED's like NCAA and Pro sports. Not only are players swapping schools for sports you are seeing that 90lb freshman is now a 135lb ripped senior. This happens especially in the boys sports. When I played HS football if you were close to 200lbs you were on the O or D line. Now the bigger HS programs have O lines that average 300lb and can run like a deer.

Sanctioning bodies....
Man has so much changed over the past 40 years. The days of getting rosters notorized, teams having to have player cards or match up insurance to rosters are long gone. Now there are so many sanctioning bodies with diffrent rules / requirements and unsanctioned events, that a lot of the systems to help ensure fair play has gone. Some of this I think is the steep drop off in teams (at least in our area). Recreational leagues struggling or stopping play all together. Spring, summer and fall playing options shrinking. I remember back in early 2000s you could post for a 3 or 4 game round robbin friendly on a Saturday or Sunday or a double headder scrimmage through the week and get 6 or more teams wanting to play. Now I do not even see post for these type of events.

As long as there is a score or trophy people will try whatever and bend or break the rules at all levels of play, recreational, competitive, school/college and it even in Pro Sports.
Thanks for explaining it in brief. I appreciate you.
 
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yocoach

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Ditto for me of @Stedman00 's post . I retired from coaching two years ago although I actually coached an 8U rec team last year. I am coming out of retirement because someone needed my help. Someone I respect. However, I have a parent player contract that has something like 24 points on it. It isn't there for me, it's there for the teams wellbeing. I don't coach grey areas and I don't have grey areas when it comes to my team, their participation, their parents behavior, nothing. I coach to teach my players to be responsible players beholden to themselves and their teammates. Those are some of the life lessons that are taught with this game.
 

CARDS

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It’s all about good character...


If you as a coach have good character/ethics, you will instill that into your teams and it will connect all parties.

Some examples I have seen over the years of poor sportsmanship / coaches/parents cheating are:

#1 SUBs,
This is mostlikely the biggest area where teams and coaches find themselves in a posistion to cheat or bend the rules.
Most never get caught but there are some teams caught that try to slide older players onto their teams or, have players playing not on their roster or, properly insured. I seen this happen a lot in the Fall Ball play leagues and Fall tournaments we played in. Most coaches and TD's overlooked it as it was more about playing than winning in the fall. A lot of fall events are going OPEN, HS or 13 and under to avoid the age issues.
Most of the coaches that do this in the summer is because they never built a summer roster and are short players with small rosters or they do not have any depth to the roster. Anyone remember the time when players had to be released to play in sanction play with another team?
Now from what I have seen these summer subs in most cases do not help with W’s as these teams generally also struggle on the field as well.

I have not seen this in a while but, some showcse events would allow players to play for more than one team in pool play, roster bat, open subsitutions. (most tournaments had a diffrent set of rules for bracket play and a roster was susposed to be turned in prior to the first bracket play game).
There are organizations however where they plan to swap players throughout a tournament. Now sometimes when communicated properly there may be a good reason with injuries if using like age or younger and its a switch for the whole tournament bracket play, but there are organizations / teams that will show up to events and have ladies play on two teams in bracket play as they are looking to get an advantage.

#2 Coaches that are in the umpires ear from the opening pitch or before the game even starts.
We have all seen "That Coach" that thinks he or she knows the rules (especially pitching) better than the umpires. In HS ball it drags out the games in travel ball it shortens the games both are seemingly getting worse every season. Most do this to try to rattle pitchers or hitters knowing there are no issues but stopping play to kill momentum or to play head games. This is mostlikely one of the worst things that could be done to the game and the players.

#3 Bats are another hot issue.
I remember a thread a few years back where a coach was offering bat rolling services and the links that were posted for professionally altered or clone bats. This still goes on today when you see that 120lb girl blasting 250' bombs.
Easton Ghost are the bat of choice now for alterations. Back a few years ago it was Demarini, Miken, Easton Stealth.
Now this is not a altered bat situation but, while at a QDS event in Rock Hill South Carolina in 2011 there was a player swinging a Miken Ultra II (the Hottest Bat ever produced). A couple parents questioned the umpire, and he said this is an OPEN non sanctioned event players can swing any softball bat they want. Man was there some balls crushed that weekend with doctored bats. Kurt the TD director has his SUV parked out beyond RF fence about 275 and lost a windshield.

The question of ethical involvement in youth sports goes beyond just a coach or a team and their play. Parents and TDs also can get caught up in bending the rules.
Like some organizations there is also TDs that "over commit and under deliver". With the ever-increasing cost to play game, game guarantees, the length of the games, field prep, umpires, even game balls are getting squeezed. Teams pay for advertised "top notch events" but are getting second rate events in a lot of cases. We have played in blind draw events that did not have a public draw. Naturally home teams or connected teams seemed to catch some of the sweet start times, fields etc. Now in pool play at some showcase events this was common that coaches try to get in a pool with the top teams for more player exposure and some organizations have enough connections to get their teams in the top pools.

As we talk about "ethics in sports" it "expands off the field" as some teams / organizations have very loose team accounting with no system of accountability or where the fees go. There are a lot of organizations with 501c3 that are used improperly or for personal use.
Some teams/organizations try to work around STP, parking, cooler policies etc. I remember an event in Chicago where a team was caught issuing wrist bands to their families for the 4-day event to try to get out of the gate fee.

Recruiting videos, me and our coaches would look at some of our opposing teams by watching the recruiting videos they posted or game film they posted.
Most were good quality and done correctly but if you know what to look in a recruiting video you can tell the ones where the bases are altered/shortened, Pitching speed or distance altered or, while hitting they are using HOT Dots or Dudley Thunder ZN12 Exhibition 550comp-52core balls or any similar ball that will launch off any bat.

While its not cheating, Teams and Parents purchase equipment to give their players a "competitive advantage". (The haves and have not's)... You see this a lot in school ball where some teams are using used play it again sports equipment, Wal-Mart undersized gloves or, $40 bats playing against teams swinging $400 bats, with proper fitting catchers gear and a catchers mitt, first baseman has a proper glove mitt, most of these players arealso wearing impact protection etc. Having been around the game over 30 years the right equipment can make an average player good and a good player - very good.

Its only a matter of time before HS has to start drug testing for PED's like NCAA and Pro sports. Not only are players swapping schools for sports you are seeing that 90lb freshman is now a 135lb ripped senior. This happens especially in the boys sports. When I played HS football if you were close to 200lbs you were on the O or D line. Now the bigger HS programs have O lines that average 300lb and can run like a deer.

Sanctioning bodies....
Man has so much changed over the past 40 years. The days of getting rosters notorized, teams having to have player cards or match up insurance to rosters are long gone. Now there are so many sanctioning bodies with diffrent rules / requirements and unsanctioned events, that a lot of the systems to help ensure fair play has gone. Some of this I think is the steep drop off in teams (at least in our area). Recreational leagues struggling or stopping play all together. Spring, summer and fall playing options shrinking. I remember back in early 2000s you could post for a 3 or 4 game round robbin friendly on a Saturday or Sunday or a double headder scrimmage through the week and get 6 or more teams wanting to play. Now I do not even see post for these type of events.

As long as there is a score or trophy people will try whatever and bend or break the rules at all levels of play, recreational, competitive, school/college and it even in Pro Sports.
 
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