Commitment

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That picture is well after the point of contact, look at the whole swing...

http://www.rightviewpro.com/how-rvp-works/concept/mantle

It doesnt matter! Bottom line RAW talent baby the Mick dint get great instruction till he made the pro's. My underlining point is how much time and cash goofy parents spend on instructors for catching, batting and pitching and their kids are just summer league players at best. In the end and real talent evaluaters will agree its all about RAW talent. You cant teach a mule to run in the Kentucky Derby no matter how much hard work they put in. :lmao::lmao:

 

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sure would be nice to have an entire team full with Mantle talent... until then I guess many will be going to throw good money after bad... I'll bet the folks that instruct and attend clinics share these thoughts too. Especially those that aren't there making a dime to do so.

DaddyDice, your insight will allow me sit back and watch the boost you may have thrust into this thread.

Wonder what a team full of mules would be capable of ...? I've seen some pretty good coaches with some 'B' level talent work over some 'A' talented teams.

 

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I think that you have to gain commitment with expectations that should be communicated at the beginning of the development of the team. Once expectations are stated up front, you have to gain commitment & hold parents/players accountable. Without that you will lose control of your team. If commitments are not up held it will destroy team chemistry which is an important part of a successful team.There truly is no I in team. No one player should be above the team. I think that our expectations have to allow for multi sport players to accomodate those sports but that they be at all team related practices & functions when able. The parents need to be held accountable to team expectations and their players commitment to the team also.

" It's amazing what can be accomplished when it doesn't matter who gets the credit for it"

 

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I think that you have to gain commitment with expectations that should be communicated at the beginning of the development of the team. Once expectations are stated up front, you have to gain commitment & hold parents/players accountable. Without that you will lose control of your team. If commitments are not up held it will destroy team chemistry which is an important part of a successful team.There truly is no I in team. No one player should be above the team. I think that our expectations have to allow for multi sport players to accomodate those sports but that they be at all team related practices & functions when able. The parents need to be held accountable to team expectations and their players commitment to the team also.

" It's amazing what can be accomplished when it doesn't matter who gets the credit for it"

I couldn't agree more. And you have to hold EVERYONE accountable.....can't make those exceptions for "raw talent"

 

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I agree totally with DTRJ. There are many travel ball teams in Ohio with many different commitment levels and expectations. Find the one that's right for your daughter.
There is obviously no "right" answer to the question of commitment. My daughter works year 'round, but I do not expect every player on my team to follow suit. We have girls that play other sports in the winter but are committed to our summer. I feel they are just as committed to our team as those who are able to work out over the winter. In the end, the girls who perform best on the field will be the ones who play, regardless of the avenue they chose to get to that level. With this in mind, I look forward to a successful season with a great bunch of talented and hardworking players (even the ones who couldn't make the Winter schedule).

 

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How do you teach committment, can you? When you agree to something should you players follow through, when agreements are made in August how long do you let players and parents get away with not showing up to workouts and not showing up to practice. Is it the parents fault or is it dd's fault? How long do coaches have to put up with excuses on why your not there, or late arrivals of more than 1 hr to practice?

sighned/ ticked

There have been alot of good points throughout this Post, but you've have been overlooking the whole issue.

1. Allegedly, There has been a Practice Agreement made in August between
the Players, Parents, and the Teams Coaching Staff.

2. Allegedly, The Players, Parents have failed in meeting the requirements of
this Practice Agreement.

3. Allegedly, The Coaching Staff has put up with every excuse in the
Book ,to the point the excuses are beginning to repeat themselves, for
why they are not attending.

4. Allegedly, If the Players do attend, they are more then 1 hour late.

Forget about all the sports or activities these Players are in right now!
Forget about what season we are currently in!

Main QUESTIONS: He's asking #1. How do you Teach Commitment? #2. Who's fault is it the Parents or Players? #3. How long would YOU! as the Coach tolerate this conduct on your Team?

Not! Saying that there couldn't be concessions made for these players, who themselves knowingly are going to be absent. A little common courtesy to contact the Coaching Staff beforehand would also be nice!.


FASTPITCH! Anything else, and you're playing to SLOW!

 

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It doesnt matter! Bottom line RAW talent baby the Mick dint get great instruction till he made the pro's. My underlining point is how much time and cash goofy parents spend on instructors for catching, batting and pitching and their kids are just summer league players at best. In the end and real talent evaluaters will agree its all about RAW talent. You cant teach a mule to run in the Kentucky Derby no matter how much hard work they put in. :lmao::lmao:

Lets look at Mantle...one of about 800 players who make it to the Bigs in a system of about 20,000 want to be's each year....Are we talking apples to apples? Last time I checked this was a girls fast pitch site mainly and now we are comparing girls to men and there is a venue for the women called the NPF.

Does your daughter look like Sophia Loren, Elizabeth Taylor, Pamela Anderson or the Kissing Bandit who ran on the field and kissed Bench and Rose? Yes these were all someones daughters and they did what they did and acheived success by some peoples measures in life and then there is the Hollywood Madam....probably would not make a minor league team either...but I bet she was fun and knew some really interesting people!

Look closely at Mantles pre launch, toe touch, contact and swing on RVP verses finish. Not trying to start an argument however does your daughter start like Mantle or end like Mantle?

We currently have 61 kids in college from Div.1 through NAIA and one at the NPF level and 3 in the Frontier Leauge and 1 in the White Sox's Minor league system...not sure if I have reached guru status yet however I think our parents would agree we helped our kids get better along the way and I never charged them to do it...our mutal friend Bill knows my story and we have met in person.

I am sure Michael Jordans parents were devasted when he was cut from the high school team...was it 2 or 3 times? I am glad he never gave up on him self and that his coaches did not either or we would have missed some great NBA games with his tongue floppying about.

WE just try to help them reach for their goals and not poop on their dreams as that is not what parents, friends or coaches should do in my opinion...on a lighter side I have told a few of our kids you need to take up ****** as anyone can kick a ball or bounce it off their head...the true beauty to ****** is the passing of the ball at a full run!

Hitting is deemed the most difficult thing to do in all of sports...source USA TODAY March 3, 2003 I think.

The people I know that do know you think you are a good guy in heart however some do not know how to take you...I'll make you an offer you can not refuse call Bill for my number.

 

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It doesnt matter! Bottom line RAW talent baby the Mick dint get great instruction till he made the pro's. My underlining point is how much time and cash goofy parents spend on instructors for catching, batting and pitching and their kids are just summer league players at best. In the end and real talent evaluaters will agree its all about RAW talent. You cant teach a mule to run in the Kentucky Derby no matter how much hard work they put in. :lmao::lmao:

I'll try to decipher thru the bs. I had a conversation with Daddy today, and the point he is trying to make is this: There are three levels of kids playing travel ball. Top tier: raw talent out the wazoo, and will play college ball. Level 2: Kids just below this level that can play college ball with hard work and dedication. Level 3: kids who will never play college ball no matter how hard they work or how dedicated they are. His point, and I don't share his opinion on this, is level 3 kids shouldn't be wasting their time and parents money on expensive lessons if they will never be able to play at the next level. His love of getting a rise out of people forces him to say things differently than the rest of us would. There might be another level of player in there, but I would basically agree with the 3 levels. Remember, whatever level your kid is playing at, they should be out there because they love to play. Every team has kids at all three levels. They are all important to the game. Daddy just comes across as a jackass when he says it.

There have been alot of good points throughout this Post, but you've have been overlooking the whole issue.

1. Allegedly, There has been a Practice Agreement made in August between
the Players, Parents, and the Teams Coaching Staff.

2. Allegedly, The Players, Parents have failed in meeting the requirements of
this Practice Agreement.

3. Allegedly, The Coaching Staff has put up with every excuse in the
Book ,to the point the excuses are beginning to repeat themselves, for
why they are not attending.

4. Allegedly, If the Players do attend, they are more then 1 hour late.

Forget about all the sports or activities these Players are in right now!
Forget about what season we are currently in!

Main QUESTIONS: He's asking #1. How do you Teach Commitment? #2. Who's fault is it the Parents or Players? #3. How long would YOU! as the Coach tolerate this conduct on your Team?

Not! Saying that there couldn't be concessions made for these players, who themselves knowingly are going to be absent. A little common courtesy to contact the Coaching Staff beforehand would also be nice!.


FASTPITCH! Anything else, and you're playing to SLOW!

I agree whole heartedly that this thread went off on a tangent. I'm kinda glad that it did. It has given me something to look forward to reading each day. I stick with my original post on this thread. If you pick a player and they know what's expected of them over the winter, and they don't hold up their end of the bargain, then they need to be cut loose. This will devolve into a cancer. There is only one way to cure a cancer. You have to cut it out. You don't have to get upset about it. You just call them up and tell them that they are off of the team. I would rather cut the 3 best kids on a team and pick up three avg players who want to be there, than let those 3 tear apart my team. This thread is not about multi sport athletes. Big Daddy has made it clear that he's talking about kids who could be there, they choose not to. Also, a 2 hour practice once a week is not a lot to ask from your team. Our team practices on Sundays and Tuesdays and I couldn't be happier. We will be ready when it comes time to play outside. By the way: since my kid is a catcher, she also has 2 hours of catching every Monday. Yes, this is three days in a row, and she is exhausted by Tuesday night, but she loves it and she is a str8 A student, because in my house grades come first. You can ask my kid on that one.

Lets look at Mantle...one of about 800 players who make it to the Bigs in a system of about 20,000 want to be's each year....Are we talking apples to apples? Last time I checked this was a girls fast pitch site mainly and now we are comparing girls to men and there is a venue for the women called the NPF.

Does your daughter look like Sophia Loren, Elizabeth Taylor, Pamela Anderson or the Kissing Bandit who ran on the field and kissed Bench and Rose? Yes these were all someones daughters and they did what they did and acheived success by some peoples measures in life and then there is the Hollywood Madam....probably would not make a minor league team either...but I bet she was fun and knew some really interesting people!

Look closely at Mantles pre launch, toe touch, contact and swing on RVP verses finish. Not trying to start an argument however does your daughter start like Mantle or end like Mantle?

We currently have 61 kids in college from Div.1 through NAIA and one at the NPF level and 3 in the Frontier Leauge and 1 in the White Sox's Minor league system...not sure if I have reached guru status yet however I think our parents would agree we helped our kids get better along the way and I never charged them to do it...our mutal friend Bill knows my story and we have met in person.

I am sure Michael Jordans parents were devasted when he was cut from the high school team...was it 2 or 3 times? I am glad he never gave up on him self and that his coaches did not either or we would have missed some great NBA games with his tongue floppying about.

WE just try to help them reach for their goals and not poop on their dreams as that is not what parents, friends or coaches should do in my opinion...on a lighter side I have told a few of our kids you need to take up ****** as anyone can kick a ball or bounce it off their head...the true beauty to ****** is the passing of the ball at a full run!

Hitting is deemed the most difficult thing to do in all of sports...source USA TODAY March 3, 2003 I think.

The people I know that do know you think you are a good guy in heart however some do not know how to take you...I'll make you an offer you can not refuse call Bill for my number.

H,
I will give Daddy Dice your number. I'm sure you would enjoy your conversation with him. I'm dying to see what this offer is. Hopefully I helped explain up above what he was trying to say in his "Paulie Walnuts" type way that he does. He lives to stir the pot.

Daddy Dice and wgman21 at the local chili cook off last May. I'm wearing the baseball cap.

 

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How do you teach commitment, can you? When you agree to something should you players follow through, when agreements are made in August how long do you let players and parents get away with not showing up to workouts and not showing up to practice. Is it the parents fault or is it dd's fault? How long do coaches have to put up with excuses on why your not thier, or late arrivals of more than 1 hr to practice?

sighned/ ticked

BIG DADDY---it looks like you have been given lots of sound, well-reasoned advice ~ so you don't need any more from me, lol.

I'm gonna tell you what you already know and are not happy about.

1. You cannot teach commitment. It's another one of those personal qualities that a player has, or she doesn't. You can't teach discipline, honesty, empathy, desire, camaraderie or any of the "tions"---dedication/ambition/application/determination, etc.

2. How long do you put up with no-shows/late-shows? Well I guess that's entirely up to you. There's a lot that goes into the equation---Just how badly do you want to win? Just how good is the player? Just how average are the rest of the players?

3. Is it the parents' fault or the player's fault?---Does it really matter? Will it alter your decision? Again, completely up to you.


I know how bad this all sounds, but I believe these are some of the tuff issues every coach grapples with. I'm certainly not in a position to make any judgements.

Is it fair?---Hell no.

Is it reality?---I'm afraid so.

Just remember, free advice is worth what you pay for it.

 

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Excellent post, Hitter--- though we used to say hitting a baseball was the toughest thing to do in sports 40 years ago (and when Gibson and Kofax were pitching from the higher mounds it was absolutely true). I have said many times, however, that hitting a baseball pitched by a top professional is actually the 2nd toughest thing to do in sports. Without question in my experience, hitting a softball pitched by a top amateur man is number 1.

I do agree that a lot of money is wasted on lessons for kids who are never going to get past high school-- and that some instructors probably should tell certain parents the truth about those kids. But the same can certainly be said about violin lessons.

I also agree that the cream rises to the top. I have a daughter right now who is going to be a division 1 pitcher. She throws between 55 and 60 consistently as a just-turned 13-year old. She is going to be close to 6 ft tall. Right now, I don't even have her taking pitching lessons yet. She throws only a fastball and change and they're both excellent. Her weekend travel team coach doesn't even know she can pitch and that's the way I want it for now. Instead she'll pitch at a level higher (16U) for a local team during the week and play middle infield on weekends.

Basically, I think the pitching thing will take care of itself when she's 16 and I will have saved thousands on lessons!

 

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dolara, you are robbing your daughter but your the boss!!!

 

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My daughter is a multi sport athlete but softball comes first for her. Most winter practices are Sundays or later on Saturdays so conflicts are minimal. (And yes I have driven her 1/2 an hour to softball game then an hour to another sport's game and then back for 2 more softball games in a day but that's how you teach commitment I'm willing to do this as a parent and therefore so should you as a player on multiple teams)
Seems that the particular issues here are courtesy (letting the coach know of the conflict in advance) or not wanting to practice because they already had a practice or game in the other sport earlier that day.
I think there's a big difference with a player that shows up an hour late having let the coach know in advance that they would be late because of an all day swiming tournament that is an hour away from the practice site and someone who just wanders in late.

 

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Last year we had a pretty talented Team. With work & commitment, they could have been a very competative team. But due to gas prices & REc ball or other things three could not make practices.
Come Spring/Summer it showed. Both on the field AND as a team in the dug outs. On and Off the field, they did not click. It really hurt the team as a whole.
This year the rules were made clear before they joined the team. Right at try outs, between the Coaches, Parents and the girls. Are you willing to travel to practices & Games. Can you Commit 110%.
They all agreed and they ALL make 110% to be there at all practices and games. Yes some have missed a couple here and there over the Winter but kept in close contact with the Coach.
It shows, It shows both on and off the field. This team, each and every player wants it. They show up to play, as a Team & give 110% on the field.
If Commitment is set at signups, it needs to be carried out through out the entire season. A Season in Travel ball is not 3-4 Months per year. It is 365 days per year. If you can not commit. Dont take the spot on the team. Go play other sports & be happy. Do what makes your child happy. But in Travel fast pitch there is way to high of a level of talent to make it #2 in your choice of sports.
As Parents and as players.
IMOP! From just one Dedicated Parent, with a DD that lives, for Fast Pitch Softball. Everything else, is just boreing...(In my DD's own words)

 

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Good reading!

On Daddy Dice's 3 level system of talent...what about level 4? you know, the crazy girl who is the 11/12th player on the team who thinks they know it all and whose parents compound the issue because they think she knows it all as well, the type of girl who always has some issue, spreads cancer like ebola in an african jungle, and wouldnt even be a starter on a school varsity team...

Commitment first is taught and instilled by the parents (now mind you, some people have it instilled in them, so in essence, commitment is alot like work ethic). In anything a kid does, in school, playing for a team, etc, they put forth a certain amount of instrinsic effort plus parents motivation. In the end, a girl learns from what she sees. She has a parent committed to getting her to practice when shes a whiny 11 yr old? eventually it pays off to the 16u girl who makes every school ball practice during the offseason, helping catch her varsity pitcher at camps and even makes the weekend travel ball indoor practice.

Some girls do fall by the wayside. they fall in love with other sports, maybe even band (hey i read on espn, a 6'4' all-american who went to uconn suddenly gave it all up to play volleyball). Parents dont have to push when it comes to committment, its just that inderstanding that comes with making a team and that families expectations. sure, every once in a while you will have a girl who has more drive then her parents, but its hard for teen girls to do this alone. what happens to that girl? they drop out and fall into that gray area level 3, and coaches shake their heads when their names are mentioned as "she coulda been a contender".

Cancers spread, and they take other girls and families down with them. If it becomes a coach vs. poor old me, drop em and move on. its not worth it, and if shes a top level talent, most likely she or her dad is emailing the coach letting them know their situation, usually the case of multiple sports.

 

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Hitter Ive herd from a few that you are the real deal! Ill give you a call after the new year after DADDY recovers from a surgical procedure and is through eating all the percacet DADDYS doctor perscribed. There is one thing that has DADDY curious and being how DADDY is he has to ask after those many clinics you held with your girl BUSTOS did she ever share any of those BURRITO EATING SKILLS SHE POSESSES WITH YOU! Maybe we can work out a trade set DADDY up with some hitting tips and DADDY will turn you on to a couple of CRAZY HORSE GIRLS DADDY KNOWS.

 

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Her and I eat at Cancun a small Mexican place right down the street from me.

Since she is Mexican, American, Indian and I spent 2.5 years in Texas eating their food, I think I qualify as a Tex Mex connoisseur so we agree it is good food and the margaritas are out of this world!

I will take care of the hitting and you will pick up the check....an offer you can not refuse...ask Bill.

 

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Feel free to disagree, but keep it civil. Just a suggestion, but since I've had to delete a couple of posts in this thread already......

 

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burritos? did someone say burritos?

 

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especially from the bustos/daddy dice kitchen...i'm sure the health inspector will have them closed before I arrive

 

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Feel free to disagree, but keep it civil. Just a suggestion, but since I've had to delete a couple of posts in this thread already......

All this talk about Mexican food and we ARE not talking walking tacos will get us all in the Bears doghouse and the thread will be pulled...this must be a Northern Ohio Mexican dish as in 2.5 years in Texas and I never encountered it anywhere and in my opinion Busto's would not serve it or eat it!

Trust me she can cook Mexican...