Do Rewards and Punishments Work ?

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I am curious to learn what coaches, parents, and players think of a team being punished by running laps or various other punishments when the team loses a game. ?Also rewarding a team for a win. ? ?What are your thoughts on rewarding or punishing an individual player for an error, either mental or physical mistake. ?I have seen this approach used at all levels of play and curious as to the thoughts from the parents, coaches and players. ?Does it work? ?Does it help motivate the team to play better? ?Does it help make the game more fun since it is only a game and should be fun, or does it show the players, that perfection and winning is what is most important? ? Should it be the players desire, commitment and dedication to the game, team and self to be the best they can be or should we use these extra ways to motivate them?

I am looking forward to reading your thoughts and debates on this issue.

Thank you. ?

 

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I am curious to learn what coaches, parents, and players think of a team being punished by running laps or various other punishments when the team loses a game. Also rewarding a team for a win. What are your thoughts on rewarding or punishing an individual player for an error, either mental or physical mistake. I have seen this approach used at all levels of play and curious as to the thoughts from the parents, coaches and players. Does it work? Does it help motivate the team to play better? Does it help make the game more fun since it is only a game and should be fun, or does it show the players, that perfection and winning is what is most important? Should it be the players desire, commitment and dedication to the game, team and self to be the best they can be or should we use these extra ways to motivate them?

I am looking forward to reading your thoughts and debates on this issue.

Thank you.

I'd much rather spend the time working to correct the mistakes than spending time thinking of ways to punish. As a general rule conditioning should not be used as a form of punishment, but as a part of well thought out strategy to improve the physical part of the game.

 

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I agree with Bear, conditioning should never be used as a form of punishment for losing a game or making an error. My daughter had a coach a few years back who would make the girls run for anything and everything, both at games and during practice. While they ran anywhere from 15-20 laps, he would yell out, "I'm looking for quitters, who's going to be a quitter?" Needless to say, this is the only team that we've ever had to pull our daughter from. I believe that this man is coming back to coaching this year. I feel sorry for the girls on his team!!

Now if your team isn't paying attention during practice and you've warned them, then I don't have a problem with them doing a couple laps to regain their attention, but a couple, not 15-20!

 

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a1sdad-----interesting topic.

I've always been a carrot, instead of the stick kinda gal----but I don't know that either really has any place in girl's softball. ?

I think winning or playing your best is it's own reward, and conversely, losing or screwin' up is it's own punishment. ? These are talented, bright young ladies, and (as I've said before) they are well aware of when they have not played well or made an error, and feel badly enough as it is. ?(No one LIKES to lose, or make an error, or look foolish in front of a crowd).

Any further piling on of punishment (verbal abuse/laps/sitting the bench) is only to satisfy the coach's anger---it does not help the girls.

 

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IMHO. This game of softball is already a game of failure(hitters fail 7 out of 10 times and there still one of the best) if a young lady makes a mistake either mental or pysical we as coaches need to teach her the right way, work with her, talk to her, get her in the right frame of mind, This is such a unique game, if we as coaches just make them run , do push-ups or YELL when they make a mistake, we are putting them in fear of screwing up next time. This game is so mental that if a girl goes out on the field afraid of making mistakes they will probably not play the way they should. I tell my girls when they make a mistake " Short memory Long game" forget about and make the next play. These young ladies are out there busting the booties to do whats right, we as coaches need to TEACH them not PUNISH them. As for praise HECK yea they ALL need to know when they have done somthing right. (but thats what the MOMS and DADS on the side are for)LOL

 

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I agree with everything said here, but let me ask one question: Why do the boys who grew up playing sandlot ball 30-40 years ago understand the game far better than the girls who have been receiving adult coaching the last 15 years? Certainly none of the other boys was the least bit worried about each other's feelings when one of them made a mistake.

I see no point in making a team run for anything other than to get in shape, but I do think the girls need to be corrected when they make mistakes. If we can't correct during the game because it's too hard on their feelings, that leaves after the game. But of course we can't correct after the game because no one wants to hear the coach be "negative" after the game and we can't do it in front of the other girls. So that leaves at the next practice. But again, we can't do it in front of the team, so we must devote individual time at the next practice to each girl who made a mistake in the last game? That could take up half of the practice. Oh, what about during the high school season when you play four straight days? Are we going to build up four games worth of things that need to be fixed on an individual basis and wait until the next practice to address them?

If you are going to coach, there is no way to avoid violating some of the theories that abound. If you don't, you're probably a babysitter and not doing much teaching of the game.

 

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I don't think ?boys in a sandlot 30 yrs ago and girls today is a fair comparison (for several reasons, but that's a thread for a different day) ?

I know it's not PC, but it's apples and oranges/venus and mars. ?You can holler all day at most boys and it seems to slide right off of them, like water off a duck's back. ?(I don't know if I could possibly fit in any more cliches, if I tried) ;D, but I have found that if you get loud and angry with a girl, she'll shut down and drop out. ?I think they're just wired differently.

No one ever said anything about not being able to correct the girls (I'm all about the instruction)~just not punishing them.

 

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Anyone who's had the experience of raising both a boy and a girl recognizes the differences in their emotional character. I can badger and tease my son, call him a slacker, etc. - BUT he knows it' all in fun. I try the same with my DD, and I'll get a completely different response. She takes it as being made fun of, but he takes it as a harmless joke. Believe me, they both have VERY thick skin - otherwise they wouldn't survive in our family. But, as boys and girls, they have a completely different viewpoints. Parents of both know this all too well. Is one any less of an athlete in their own right? You be the judge.

Punish for mistakes after a game, and you'll get a bunch of timid players, afraid to make mistakes for fear of punishment. Show me a coach who punishes his/her team after a game, and I'll show you a coach who has failed in preparing his/her team. Maybe the coach should run, or do pushups to remind himself to better prepare his team. Practice is for preparation, games are for fun. Encourage kids to go ALL OUT in practice without fear of making mistakes. That's how they learn their limits. If a kid is so much of a slacker that they have to be repeatedly punished, maybe the coach needs to re-evaluate why they chose this particular player in the first place. If a kid is goofing off and wasting the coaches, and the teams, time - verbally warn them. If that fails, give them the boot. Running laps will never change a kid's attitude about hustle and focus. You'll just get a tired, lazy kid that STILL lacks hustle and focus.

 

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That's one of the reasons we left the organization we played on last year. My daughter, who was only 11 at the time,
was so afraid to make a mistake that she told me she would rather sit on the bench than cause an error that made everybody run. How is the coach making the girls any better????

 

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If these girls make mistakes, just like when boys make mistakes, they are harder on themselves than you could ever be. (that's assuming they care, some kids don't). There is no reason to beat them over the head with it. 9 times out of 10 they already know what they did. Brush over ALL the mistakes made in your after game talk, but you should also talk about all the things they did right! They need to hear them both. "we'll work on this, but this was great today". Not so hard! :

 

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Focus on POSITIVES and Negitives may go away

 

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Our 16u team had a habit one year of losing in pool play and then making the finals the next day. They imposed a "punishment" on themselves which was to run two laps for every pool play game they lost.

Running the laps as a team was not that big of a deal for them, but it did help to remind them that the more they win in pool play the easier they make it for themselves on Sunday.

I do agree with the posts that boys and girls need to be coached differently. If I coached the girls like I coach my HS wrestling team, I would not have a softball team!

 

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Boys play hard to feel good, girls have to feel good to play hard.... :

 

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You can mention nine things the team did right and mix in one thing that needs to be corrected and some people will think you're being negative. For those who think coaching and keeping girls' psyches in a good condition is not so hard, then I need to come and take copious notes from you. I've coached thousands of games, and believe me, keeping a team in a good frame of mind at all times is not easy. I've seen a lot of coaches who think their teams are harmonious and their players are happy when in fact they are one step from breaking up. If anyone who has coached for any length of time thinks he hasn't been in that situation, then he is fooling himself.

Again, I agree with everything said here, but it's often not that simple. If parents are expecting coaches to do everything as perfectly as it's laid out here, they will be disappointed.

If you haven't been a head coach, try to imagine the following scenario: You have tryouts, choose the team, make some tough cuts, organize the team, plan and conduct several practices, do administrative work for the team, occasionally hear talk from the parents about how great the team or individual players will do (if only the coach doesn't mess it up), and then the first tournament arrives. Inevitably, the team is going to make mistakes and may or may not have a winning record. As time goes on, one or more players is disgruntled about playing time, position, or whatever else, and one or more parents complain in the stands. The coach hears all of this either directly or indirectly. And then the team suffers through a tough weekend and near the end of a 90-degree 1-4 weekend, a player cops an attitude. This is after one of the parents lodged a complaint earlier in the day about playing time or position and two other girls showed up late for warmups. And you think to yourself as the one girl is showing her attitude over sitting out this game and the parents are complaining about the team losing, "And I'm a volunteer here?" At that point, the next thing that happens that you don't like might be enough to set you off.

If one can somehow get through an entire coaching career without anything like that scenario ever occuring, good for them, but they'll be in the distinct minority. But since most coaches will endure scenarios like this, I would suggest that parents need to cut head coaches as much slack as possible. It's hard to describe the pressure a head coach feels, even a volunteer-parent coach. You've got your own set of high expectations and feel an ownership of the team, and on top of that the parents pretty much all think the team is quite a bit better than it actually is and expect the team to pretty much win all the time. When things don't go well, John Wooden might behave perfectly, but most coaches won't. It takes a lot of time and experience to learn to stay calm and weather those storms. For those coaches who don't have a ton of experience, I urge everyone to cut them some slack if at all possible. I realize some things must be addressed immediately, but if a coach blows his top once or twice at the team or parents, let it go. If a coach makes the team run one time after a game because he's fed up, let it go, it isn't going to permenantly harm anyone. If the coach is still doing all of these things on a regular basis after a few years, then it's time to find another travel team or lobby the AD to get rid of the coach.

 

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Losing is bad enough without punishment added on. My daughter plays on the JV volleyball team right now and when the varsity looses a game they have to run suicides in-between matches. How humiliating! They just lost, lets make them run. It doesn't pick them up, all it does is tire them out. At GAAPS this summer, I watched a group of girls run lap after lap around the exterior of a field. Most of them were crying it was so hot and they had just gotten beat pretty bad. I don't think this was good for them at all.
Do I think they need to be corrected if they make a mistake? Absolutely! Do I think they need to be punished? No! I am not against my daughter being taken out of a game if she is constantly missing easy catches, or if she is on the mound and walking everyone. Everyone has a bad day occasionally. I really don't mind a coach yelling at my kid, Our coach last year said "When I stop yelling at you it means I stopped caring". But I do take offense at humilitating a child, be it a girl or a boy especially after they lost.

 

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Some of us dads have discussed Joe's point about the sandlot boys many times. In general girl's do not play pick up games and I believe it hurts their free thinking and natural aggresiveness towards the game.

The best example I can think of is when my son and his buddy go outside to talk or goof around they usually take some kind of ball and throw it back and forth during this time...They get bored and before I know it are competeting against each other just throwing it over the fence or some other made up game ...my dd and her freinds sit indian style and giggle. ;D ;D By the way I love to watch both.

 

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I guess my real point about pick up games is nobody is going let you know how stupid of a play you just made then your best buddy pray to God he didn't benefit from it or win the game because of it. ;D He may even remind you about it every day for the next week until you redeem youself on the sandlot.

 

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I've never wittnessed a girl become a better fielder or batter, by running sprints, laps, suicides or miles. I have also never wittnessed a track coach make their athletes bring ball gloves with them to a meet or to practice, so they could field grounders as punishment for their poor performance. Conditioning has it's place in our game, but it doesn't make a player understand why the error was made or how to correct it.
I started coaching baseball, over twenty years ago and I coached boys (17 & 18 year olds), the same way that my pee-wee coaches, little league coaches, High School coaches and College coaches, coached me. The world was beautiful, coaching was easy. I understood them and they understood me ( parents were still a pain in the *^!! ). I could be direct and blunt , when they made errors and they usually responded to me by working hard not to make the same mistake again. These young men usually had the MLB goal in mind and they wanted to be the best. I could push them hard and they wouldn't give up. I stopped coaching boys when my oldest daughter was born.
THEN CAME SOFTBALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! O.M.G. Well, I tried to coach the same way with girls, as I did with guys. For about a minute!!I had girls crying almost every time we played or practiced . They spent as much time running laps and doing green berets, as they did practicing softball. I was a train wreck!! Fortunately a female friend of mine jumped in to save me and the team. We did away with punishments and started to focus on how and why mistakes were being made and how to correct them. Teaching proper technique became our new motto and the girls responded quickly. Quickly, it became obvious to me that the punishments for errors was not the best approach. Realizing that girls respond to teaching and explaining things, more than punishments makes life as a coach much easier. That wonderful group of girls that I started with ( 14-U), is still with me and now they're (18-U) and once again, O.M.G. for completely different reasons!!!!!!

 

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JoeA---I guess I hadn't given it as much thought as I should have (the unbelievable pressure on a head coach, especially one with a winning track history--- that's a lot to live up to). ? I realize we're all only human, and no one should judge a coach based on an occasional wig out. ?With that in mind, I'll do my best to keep it together as a mom in the stands, and cut everyone some slack.


It's only the ones who make a habit of bullying their girls that need to get a clue.


And bh2424gh---your post reminded me of a saying I heard somewhere (can't take credit for it, myself): ?
A friend will help you up when you fall. ?A BEST FRIEND will help you up, trip you again, then laugh like hell!!! ?;D

 

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I guess we need to think" why are we here? When I hear the word "punishment" I think of a penalty that is imposed on somebody for wrongdoing an act ON PURPOSE! I'm sure they don't miss a grounder or throw the ball over the 1st baseman?s head on purpose! We as coaches are here to teach! Practice is there to minimized mistakes. I never understood how running to the fence and back showed a girl how to properly field a grounder or the correct a bad throw! Now if a girl bad mouths a coach or a player, then some sort of punishment is called for. Teaching boys vs. girls, as most on the post have said, are as different as night and day. It only takes the first practice to realize this. As far a rewards go, learning the game of softball and being the best player you can be should be reward enough!