Do young players adapt?

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With Nationals here and looking at some scores and then schedules of mostly the 10u. If you have a decent to good team at the 10-14u level and you play a tough schedule, with no concern to your record just player development, do the players in most cases adapt to the better hitting, Fielding and pitching? Therefore become better players themselves, playing better teams has a way of exposing a teams weaknesses making practice more productive? Or is there something to be said for trophy hunting and playing in tournaments against teams you know you should handle, giving kids confidence and having them feeling good about themselves?

I'm interested in hearing everybody's thoughts and the cons to one of the schools of thought. Personally I think athletes want to be the best, if we are going to spend this much time and money lets run with the big dogs. I'm not saying I'm right, and that's the reason for the thread LOL.

 

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I'd prefer the tougher schedule, but most parents don't understand. In their minds they are paying and want to win. It makes it very difficult for them to watch on a weekly basis if the team continues to lose even if they are "playing up".

Trying to find the team that can do both, play up and win, is key.

 

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I think that you need a mix of both. If you have a new young team start off building some confidence, then tackle some of the big dogs.

There is nothing worse than losing every game 20 something -0 all season. The kids get down and the parents are even worse!

 

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The thing is that there is no way to prove either either method because you can't take the exact same set of girls and do it both ways.

My experience though tells me that players will get better by playing the tough competition. I think seeing the better pitching and hitting itself helps players adapt. But I think even more important is that the better competition simply forces you to get better. It forces players to practice more, to figure out how they are going to get better to compete, and I think when players or teams move to a higher level they are much more likely to consider themselves "softball players" and work much harder at the game as a result.

But as CUTR77 said, most parents don't understand (especially at the 10-U and 12-U ages) and are happy only with winning. Almost any team can win, just dial down the schedule to the appropriate point. As teams get older, some of the parents aren't happy unless their daughter is one of the top players on one of the top two or three teams in the state. That works for maybe a dozen players in the state, but is a tall order for everyone else.

 

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This year we are a young 10 team. We played in the better league in our area for the experience with a few old 10 teams and a few young ten teams. We found that we as a team beat every young 10 team we played and competed very well with the old 10's (the ones that move up this year). We won maybe a handful of old ten games, we didn't have to many woopings though..until we headed to Ohio.

We played at reach for the Starzz and played the Ice, Hurricanes and the Diamond Chix. All three games were awesome. I saw my girls do things that I would of expected next year. I think playing the better teams makes the girls play better. Likewise, when we played some lower young 10's this year I have seen errors that I would never had guess come from my team.

I think the girls truly do play to the level of their competition. One of the games against one of the better, if not the best, 10 team in the area (hi Chris! ) our girls kept it pretty close for a few innings. We did loose, but it was a great game. Most of the parents see it, they know next year with most of our players returning (7) we should do pretty good for our age group. The monkey wrench is that we will not be playing the lower B tournaments next year like we did this year, all A's. We will see more travel teams and a few elite teams for the area that we didn't see this year. We are really looking forward to being the old 10 team this year.

 

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It's been my experience that a player will often play up. Meaning they see the competition or even what level of play is within their own team and will greatly improve making them a better player all together. With that said, there are some that will just give up, but they weren't meant for the sport anyways.

 

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I wish more tournament directors would go with more "A" and "B" in the 10u and 12 age groups personally. Trouble is: you lose another age group with the addition of a 12u B and a 10u B bracket.

It seems to me that somewhere in that age group is when you see progress as a coach of your players. Whether or not there is or there isn't.

Could be the reason you see so much movement in players at that age group from team to team.. based on ability and some girls jumping up to some of the bigger orgs. by 2nd year 12u and/or 14u.

I agree with Joe that better competition is always good for the betterment of their abilities.

But, then again.. for these 10u and early 12u coaches to play up and get "slammed" every weekend...... is not good for the morale of the girls I am sure. I would think that play up early in the spring season and let the girls get a taste of what it is going to be like... and take their whippings in an early tournament... and then build through "B" ball and hope by end of summer you took an "B" team and made improvements enough to be "A".

But, playing up ALL the time... when young I just don't think would be right to the girls.

This IS why, I wished that some TD's would start having "A" and "B" divisions at younger age groups. At least in the Spring. But, as a TD myself, I can understand as well if they don't as it cuts out another age group or two....

and what TD can take a "chance" at looking for more 10u teams entering his tournament...... based on 10u track record in Ohio the past two years with huge amounts being shut down for lack of teams because they are spread out all over the place at different events. Two here, two there, etc... Happened this year.

And I wish the people would understand the concept of the Circuit of Champions.... it is primarily set for the 10u-12u age group. If ANY Circuit of Champions TD could know in advance that the 10u are coming..being they are interested... then he could plan a "B" division in 10u and 12u over the winter.

Thus, we could provide the coaches AND the parents a guide of their teams/player progress by playing in the proper division and looking for the step up.

But, until they come join... I can't convince the TD's to go "A" and "B" at the 10u and 12u age groups. I understand fully.

I think the "Circuit" is beneficial to these age groups... now I just have to convince others... :lmao:

 

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I'm planning on a 2001 team for next year, I've seen the path the top 18u teams and coaches have taken and they all had 1 thing in common aggressive scheduling. One issue with a 2001 team is when you set your schedule many kids haven't even played in a travel game. So if our first year I schedule lower level tournaments , the next year if were to schedule heavy on ASA/USA qualifiers and normally tough tournaments, would I hurt the teams natural progression with the weak first years schedule? I'm just trying to organize my thoughts. I'm leaning towards Beanry's theory in our first year and then ramp up our level the next year. Thoughts?

 

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I would say... go with the level of play and step up once in awhile if you had a 2010 weak season... in 2011 .

Would I want to make the decision planning nothing but "Up" tournament in 2011 and give the girls a second year straight of losses at 10u..... Man, I'd hate to make that call personally.

I do not envy you, sir, to have to make that decision. I think you need to have the parents on the same page of "what might happen by playing up" pep talk.

Good luck.

 

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They will adapt. The key is can they adapt to competition that will come in spurts? Follow this scenario (which we all know)... you will face a good team, then a so-so team, then a great team, and then a flat out "why are we playing this team"... then bracket play and you have to face a great team (assuming you have a 4-game pool play... don't beat me up on that one :cap. That is the challenge if you have a good team. Great teams... well, the reason they are great is they can adapt to nearly any situation. All teams have a bad day or even weekend.

 

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As a true 11u team this season we played as hard a schedule as we could - Lasers Inv, Stringrays, Dayton Metro Nat Q, GAPPS, Doom ASA, Heat n it Up, and ASA 12u State - in addition to a Beavercreek USSSA, ChixCup NSA and Rip n it up.

Our record is 34-19. We told our kids and parents that going .500 would be great for this season. We set that expectation early on. Turns out we won the ChixCup, Beavercreek tourney and a horrible umpire illegal pitch call kept us out of the Rip n it Up final. We scheduled 4 tourny's (see the prev 3 plus the Doom one) that we thought we chould win if we played well. We won 2 and finished 2nd in Doom.

At all the other tourney's we ended up with a slightly higher than .500 record. We played the Lasers, ICE, Heat 97, Orange, Nitro, and other many times. The Nitro/Red are the only other '98 teams we saw week in and week out.

So, are we better? - YES. I have no doubt we are.

In the past 3 weeks the girls have finally become comfortable seeing 55 mph pitching, hard line shots, gappers and great players every game. We had a period in late June where we found our kids 'rushing' and trying too hard .. finally they began to relax, and 2 weekends ago, they rolled at the ChixCup - playing flawless ball to win it. Last weekend at GAPPS we went 3-2 before the rain, losing to the ICE by 3 and Red by 4 runs, each game well played and solid.

Looking back, my observations are this:

1. I would do it again in a minute.
2. You had better have 'mature' girls if you are on the odd year.
3. You need 2 strong pitchers, 1 will not get it done, game in, game out.
4. You need to lower your expectations - our team hit .303 for the season. We had 7 girls over .300 - I was very happy with that. Team era is what won for us: 2.74 - pitching is key.
5. You had better be able to play defense and field rockets off the bat.
6. Outfield is key - they have to run balls down and make plays.
7. PRESSURE / TENSION is large. There are no 'OFF' games, no teams you can beat without bringing your 'A' game - that is what gets the kids, coaches and parents .. every game is hard and intense. We have had to adjust there more than anywhere - it make everyone short tempered and tense .. thankfully we have great parents and when we had our 'moments' we all sit back and thought about the goal - build for next season. The constant parade of great teams that you face every week does wear on everyone. Like I said, just a couple of weeks ago the kids have come to see it as normal and they are playing great... parents and coaches are still trying to adjust and keep our blood pressure's down though.
8. Cost - wow, we have played 6 FRIDAY's now, had 2 hotel stays every weekend.. did not see that coming. We are all out of vacation.
9. Mental quickness / decision making - girls need to know what to do with the ball and do it without hesitation. We asked our kids to throw the ball around the infield, behind runners, etc, early on. (got that from watching the WV Mtn Thunder in Dayton) It cost us some bases early on, now we get outs. Reading situations and making the right throw, taking the extra base, etc. is a key part of what seperates the top 5 teams from the rest as I see it.

I was warned early on that many teams have busted in their effort to play a very hard schedule for the first time, I see why.. it is a huge committment from everyone.

I hope this helps .. we are way better for having made the effort - I can't wait until next season to see how much different it will be at the 12u age.

What I learned as a coach and what we work on now at practice is way ahead of what I had ever thought. My coaches are sponges, every time we saw a drill and set play or coaching move we liked we copied it. There is no comparison between the top 15 teams and all the rest IMHO - they train more, play more and have better players .. it is a whole new experience. Bear in mind that our team has mostly played together since 9u - 7 of the girls started out together at 9u, 9 players moved up from 10u last year to 11u this season. The kids, parents and coaches have over 2 years of being together. We are trying to promote consistancy of roster within our org, getting good players together for several years at a time - tough to do, but we have been lucky so far...

Lastly, I did want to say that it was great to meet so many new coaches and parents .. the Heat '97 gang, Lasers Orange coaches and parents, Stingray's, Nitro, Glory, ICE, Danger and on and on.. all great folks ..we made many, many new friends this season - probably the most rewarding part of the summer...

 

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Good post Doug, we've been in Laser Nation and last summer we were out of town every weekend from the 2nd week of June until after Nationals in S. Dakota, it was a grind to say the least.

 

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On their own, no, they will not adapt. The key is having coaches coaching. I suppose that's obvious around this board, but it's not obvious out there in non-internet land.

 

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coaching a really good 14u community travel team this year, my goal was to play teams tha were as good or slightly better then us. I don't think playing teams way better then you anything good will come out of it, from my experience. Confidence is a good thing, as long as you understand the weaker teams you beat were weaker and you should have beaten them.

That said, EVERY good 18u travel team i've seen, and seeing Magic White leads me to this conclusion: those teams are formed around 18's, they aren't together 10u through, it just isn't feasible due to people "organization hopping"

Lastly, having played tournaments here in NWO, and also playing out of town, i'm more and more convinced we'll stay local again next year, some of these local tournaments are quality run, good competition. I really liked playing Uncle Stan's etc. and we'll continue to do one out of town, but the competition wasn't better, and in most cases, tournaments weren't as well run. JMHO

 

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I believe tougher competition brings out that killer instinct within the team. It also is a good guide to where you need to go with the development of your players. If you play hard and win your teams confidence goes way up. If you play hard and lose your team knows they were playing a higher caliber team and you can get em next time.

 

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I think a coach has to decide what caliber his team is at 10u.... is he an organization that has players from many places... or is he the local team coming out with local girls.

I think that has to be a deciding factor.. what caliber do you have as a team.

 

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One of my DD's played on a young 10U team. Played in some tough tournaments against Ohio Ice, Diamond Chix, Thunder Elite, Lasers, etc and got spanked early in the season. Think both the girls and the coaches learned a lot from playing better teams and improved each week, placing in the last three tournaments.

 

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Schedule tough , then start gearing your team up for it. It all starts with coaching and practice planning. If you plan your off season practices, and coach the kids at a high level, they will be prepared. However, if you are sloppy, they will be sloppy. Everything you do in the summer, no matter how easy or hard your schedule, is predicated on how well you prepare your team in the off season. I try hard to build my season with quality tournies, the toughest toward the end.

 

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I think a coach has to decide what caliber his team is at 10u.... is he an organization that has players from many places... or is he the local team coming out with local girls.

I think that has to be a deciding factor.. what caliber do you have as a team.

agreed!

 

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ok this is a really tough one for me. As the primary scheduler (aka secretary) I asked the entire coaching staff whether the schedule was too hard. We are a 14U so obviously in different position from 10U but still really hard decision. I think we made the best choice, but that certainly didn't make it fun during the middle of the season. We went to ASA USA with a record barely over .500. But we had played the top Ohio teams and lost by 1 or 2. And we went to Moline with the confidence of knowing that our loss to Pittsburgh Predators was by one, and to so many other great teams by a really low margin. Probably our biggest shot in the arm was by LOSING to Intensity 3-1. Playing such a hard schedule makes you believe you are somewhere in the mix. Doesn't mean that there wouldn't be bad losses, just means that you can remember the tier in which you are competitive.

But yeah, I worried we might not even have a team in the middle of this killer season. Tribute to our team that they could see how thin the margin of the losses were. And they could translate that to confidence at ASA/USA. No ultimate win there but a huge amount of confidence and growth. Go Cincy Doom 95. You helped us so much and you deserve to go really really deep in this tourney.