Hitting and Hitters Discussion Forget the Riseball... LET'S TALK HITTING!!!

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First off - let's try to keep this an INFORMATIVE thread, and not turn it into a big argument about who's method is best, etc. The purpose here is to spread GOOD INFORMATION with intent to help girls hit better!

To start, let's say I'm working with a 10 yr. old beginner who hasn't really developed any ingrained bad habits. I envision hitting as (at least) two distinct parts. Part one being the actual swinging of the bat, and all the mechanics involved with that. Part two would be the timing mechanism used to execute those swing mechanics - combining vision, stride etc.

With that in mind, I'm thinking a kid must develop a decent set of basic swing mechanics BEFORE trying to create a timing mechanism. Yes, I know the two must work together as a unit when hitting live pitching, but having one without the other is fruitless. Question is: does it make sense to separate these two elements, focusing more on tee work to develop the swing before attempting more advanced things like "dancing with pitcher", and when to start load, stride, etc.?

 

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Good lord Sammy.....lol......SEE BALL, HIT BALL, except try to lay off the Rise Ball.....lol...sorry

 

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Sammy,Im with you on seperating the two. I have recently told someone that once you have good mechanics, then it's all about timing.. This does not mean you cant work on timing as your swing develops, just dont go changing mechanincs to make up for bad timing issues!! Work the tee to death and build muscle memory of your swing, then you just have to figure pitchers out and get the TIMING!!

Makes it sound sooo easy...lol

 

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I would say there is more then just 2

1. Stance (although there is many different ones that are good)
2. Swing Mechanincs
3. Timing
4. Pitch recognition
5. Contact Mechanincs
6. Follow thru Mechanincs

 

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Good lord Sammy.....lol......SEE BALL, HIT BALL, except try to lay off the Rise Ball.....lol...sorry

sounds like the right idea to me, dont forget to run fast.

 

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If I'm working with a blank slate 8U/10U hitter, the first thing I'm going to teach them is how to throw a ball so they get an understanding of weight shift and momentum.

 

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Sammy,Im with you on seperating the two. I have recently told someone that once you have good mechanics, then it's all about timing.. This does not mean you cant work on timing as your swing develops, just dont go changing mechanincs to make up for bad timing issues!! Work the tee to death and build muscle memory of your swing, then you just have to figure pitchers out and get the TIMING!!

Makes it sound sooo easy...lol

I am with Chris teach throwing first! Balance, flexed front knee, ball arm finishes to glove side thigh and tuck the glove and turn it so it travels under the arm pit. Finish with the ball in the top hand throwing drill to tie in throwing is hitting and hitting is throwing.

I think timing and rhythm start at the tee which is why we teach tracking from the start. We have the hitter pick the stance that allows them to get a two eyed look at the ball. Closed, open or even stance it is up to them as long as they can turn their head comfortably towards the pitcher without feeling any tension in the neck or shoulders.

Measure off from the same place when doing tee work and we start by hitting up the middle to teach bat control first and then work away next to practice allowing the ball to get deeper in the box and to learn to rotate as needed.

We want the hitter to look through the net at something that represents the ball coming out of a pitchers hand and not stare at the ball on the tee and this starts the tracking, timing and rhythm process in my opinion.

Explain when we do tee work... we load when the pitcher is at the K position and when they stride is at the pitchers release ( you need to use some judgment here based on the athleticism of the hitter) so they have a mental picture of what it is they are doing and why are they doing it. In the beginning explain, slow to load and soft to step on a flexed front knee and to land on the inside edge of the lead foot and to separate the hands rearward a little similar to taking the ball back to throw.

Lay the foundation of balance, measuring off the plate, grip, and setting the hands by tapping the back of the helmet to give them a sequence so they will not have to think about it and it becomes part of their mechanics naturally.

 

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2 parts
See Ball
Hit Ball.

 

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Howard - with the throwing, they would rotate the hips and finish with the belly button facing their target? And the thrower sets up with a vertical throwing forearm, and rotates through similar to the way the top batting hand/arm would.

Assuming a kid doesn't have a marked net to work off of, and they are working off the tee in a place like at a ball field. Would you recommend hitting the ball into the backstop - say from home plate - so you have a point of reference where they're hitting to (and don't have to shag balls)? In this situation, can you be more specific about how to go about working on timing during tee work? Using the backstop scenario, their eyes would be looking through the backstop, but what is the "trigger", or what kind of visual cue would simulate timing a pitching sequence - where the eyes "follow" the ball from an imaginary pitcher release point down to the tee?

And on another note, how do you get college level players to lay off a good rise ball? I think the unfortunate answer to that is for them to learn BEFORE they get to college!!

 

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Lets talk about how to hit a rise ball then...lol

 

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Lets talk about how to hit a rise ball then...lol

Punch, the rise balls that hop ....can't be hit

 

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All you have to do is watch a vid of the college world series in 07 when AZ beat TN, all year long Abbott, set strikeout records with that risebal, and no one could figure out how to hit it,,,,,,,, untill AZ came along , the AZ hitters purposly started their hands high to hit the rise ,,,,,,,,,,,,, and hit it they did, ratteling Abbott and winning the world series

 

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Lets talk about how to hit a rise ball then...lol

Sammy and you wonder why we do not waste our time giving people the time of day to actually help them understand what you and your daughter already know....elbow above the plane of the pitch and hands below the elbow and match the plane of the pitch with the bat. It truly is sad!


Tell C we said hello.....let the experts explain their position.

Then they wonder why the California girls are better!

Lets go find a walking Taco.....

 

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Somehow I'm not surprised... H - sent you a PM.

 

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How to throw a ball so they get an understanding of weight shift and momentum. After working two hitting clinics this weekend. One with Lady_Knights and Crush 1. I can't agree more with Chris. If you do not cover throwing a softball first with the younger groups, you are not going to teach hitting effectively. Kind of hard to hit a ball when you shift your weight backward and your hitting an object forward, but that is what some of these kids have been taught.

 

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You can talk all day about mechanics but you won't develop a great hitter without mixing in a large dose of mental training. Most kids can have the physical skills but waste them between the ears.

 

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How to throw a ball so they get an understanding of weight shift and momentum. After working two hitting clinics this weekend. One with Lady_Knights and Crush 1. I can't agree more with Chris. If you do not cover throwing a softball first with the younger groups, you are not going to teach hitting effectively. Kind of hard to hit a ball when you shift your weight backward and your hitting an object forward, but that is what some of these kids have been taught.

Dan maybe we are on to something as the shoulders are more rounded, the hips are wider, the back of the foot is narrower and the carrying angle goes to the thumb side and is different in girls. Maybe that is why teaching them how to shift their weight and flexing their lead foot knee takes some pressure off the shoulder and their arms and shoulders do not hurt as much...is that mental or physical?

Why are you teaching them how to throw anyway? They should already know how...see the ball hit the ball, see the ball throw the ball and if their arm falls off get a new one! And if they can not hit, buy a new bat!

See below.... http://www.drkochno.com/swing_mechanics.htm
The shoulder is one of the most complex joints and is a major factor to the mechanics of the golf swing. Shoulder injuries are second only to low back in their incidence for both men and women golfers. Interestingly, women are more affected than men for shoulder injuries. Only for men between the ages of 50-60 does shoulder injury incidence becomes more common than the low back injury.

Anatomically, women are slightly different than men especially in the elbow angle, which is called carrying-angle. Women have a slight angle outward at the elbow thus making it more difficult for them to throw overhand or swing through the ball. As this elbow angle increases past ten degrees, these women are found to be more successful in throwing underarm. When women with larger elbow angles are taught golf instruction in the same manner as men, shoulder injuries and elbow injuries become more prevalent since this swing movement is unnatural with this larger carrying-angle and affect the biomechanics of the golf swing.

Muscles need full flexibility and balanced strength to support the joint during functional movement as well as injury prevention. In the shoulder there are four large muscles that are collectively known as the rotator cuff muscles. They give primary direction and movement of the shoulder, which can rotate around itself. These four muscles of the rotator cuff are more specifically called the supraspinatus, infraspinatus, subscapularis and teres minor.


The statement below came from an on line dictionary so you know what the carrying angle would look like.
“When the arm is extended, with the palm facing forward or up, the bones of the humerus and forearm are not perfectly aligned. The deviation from a straight line occurs in the direction of the thumb, and is referred to as the “carrying angle”

 

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The fine points of fastpitch, especially hitting and pitching - take a tremendous amount of hard work to master. But it's not all about just working hard, it's also WORKING SMART! Countless reps doing something the WRONG way will never make your DD a better player.

"See the ball - hit the ball" will only take you so far. The players who are successful with that principle are NOT your lower tier unskilled players. They have spent countless hours working on fundamental skills. A 10u girl just learning the game will be lost with that philosophy - and there's a BUNCH of them out there! No offense, but anyone who tells you different hasn't a clue about what it takes to become a skilled player.

 

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Good conversation, several pointers to be picked up...thank you!

 

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When I work with a hitter we call it "Swing Training" for the most part. That covers the part that reinforces muscle memory and mechanics and takes place on the tee, soft-toss, etc.... all the up close work. "Hitting Practice" or whatever else you want to call it is separate. That is mostly mental with some muscle memory thrown in.

For a young player or one that has to have their mechanics broken down all the way I start out with just three things the player has to remember and build on that.

"Feet, knees, hands back!"

Because I have show that player what goes into those three things it is an easy mantra for them to remember as they go to an at-bat. It is also an easy cue for me to say to that young player and doesn't complicate things.

Keep in mind that I don't show them those simple things but I'm showing them all the small things their little heads can absorb but in telling them they only have to remember those three things they unknowingly so MOST of the other stuff I've shown them and reinforced through drills.

The above is usually what I do from tee-ball up through kid-pitch for those that did not have attention.