Hitting and Hitters Discussion Forget the Riseball... LET'S TALK HITTING!!!

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I just had an offline discussion about my above post. The person was thinking that all I was showing the player was "Feet, knees, hands back" and letting it go at that. I explained that all the skill-appropriate swing training drills were being taught and reinforcement of hands, hips, feet, posture, connection, rotation, front knee, etc, etc, etc. was going on but that all that was too much to remember when walking to the plate. If I have done all my coaching-work correctly then "Feet, knees, hands back!" gets them in good shape to execute a swing.

Amazingly enough when you convince a kid that all they have to remember is those three simple things they will do more complex things automatically.

We went on to talk that as an individual players ability to comprehend increased I would give them more to consider. Layers on an onion, etc.

I've even found that with players who have rotated off my teams (rec in the younger days) that I can see them at bat and offer a "Feet, knees, hands back!" when we are playing them and they still remember what that means and get themselves in better shape.

 

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y`all make swinging a bat too complicated. I guess old Pete did everything wrong

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Huda3vQUPN4

I guess this guy was wrong too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2om0QdeI5iY&feature=related

Here is the best ever, was he wrong too?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwogLVGtDa8&feature=related

 

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lol! I guess those guys were just natural born hitters! Maybe they slept with their bat under their pillow?

 

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y`all make swinging a bat too complicated. I guess old Pete did everything wrong

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Huda3vQUPN4

I guess this guy was wrong too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2om0QdeI5iY&feature=related

Here is the best ever, was he wrong too?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwogLVGtDa8&feature=related

Great youtube finds i enjoyed that!!!!!!

 

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I don't think it is a good idea to teach a stride. Softball is such a shorter distance and less reaction time. Widen the stance to your stride distance. Develop the core for power and strentgh. With the bat technology nowadays the ball will go. My daughter is 5'4" and about 120lbs. and can hit as far as anyone. She will be playing at the D1 level in College. If you are teaching a stride it adds to the mental part of the game. No stride allows the hitter to focus more on mechanics and not guess on pitches.

 

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I'm ok with a stride for a mechanism but it has to be completed right as the pitcher begins her movement. So why do it if it is done by then? Don't know because I don't teach it but if a girl shows up with it I won't change it unless it is causing her problems or there is sufficient time to take it away and get her comfortable for the season. The stride, the foot stomp, etc.... I'd rather not have it. However I do like a trigger to plant the front foot "in the sand" so there is a solid base to rotate around the front hip.

 

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Playing the Devil's advocate here, so bear with me...

Through the years, I've heard all the arguments AGAINST a stride - it causes head movement, not enough time to get set, etc. But if those arguments are valid, why do most of the best fastpitch hitters in the world stride? My take is the purpose of the stride is misunderstood. I don't look at it so much as a timing mechanism; I think of it as an integrated part of the swing, who's purpose is to get energy from the core moving forward, very similar to a forward step when throwing - or a pitcher's stride. At toe touch all forward movement stops, and rotation takes over; propelled by the sudden stop of the forward motion. You certainly wouldn't teach your kids a "no-stride" throw, or pitchers a slingshot "no-stride" pitching motion. Forward motion is power.

If it's taught from the very beginning as a core principle of good swing mechanics, why wouldn't kids be able to do it correctly? The ONLY reason I would see NOT to use a stride is for a specialty hitting situation. But IMO, all things being equal, a kid using a stride will hit the ball MUCH harder than those that do not. Home runs have nothing to do with it. Hitting the ball hard on the ground puts pressure on the defense, and often results in errors, or a gap hit - where a dribbler is easily fielded.

 

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I don't think it is a good idea to teach a stride. Softball is such a shorter distance and less reaction time. Widen the stance to your stride distance. Develop the core for power and strentgh. With the bat technology nowadays the ball will go. My daughter is 5'4" and about 120lbs. and can hit as far as anyone. She will be playing at the D1 level in College. If you are teaching a stride it adds to the mental part of the game. No stride allows the hitter to focus more on mechanics and not guess on pitches.

I think it is individual choice. I do agree, for most kids the less moving parts the better, but that does not apply to all hitters. DD at OSU went to placing the foot ahead as the pitcher was in her wind up, and liked it a lot. Did not hurt her power at all, finished 4th on the all time HR list at OSU. It was hard for a few of the other girls to adjust to, however. Ruined one great hitter they had.(that and they had her use a heavy, endloaded 28 oz bat.) Didnt make sense to me.
If you have a natural, let her hit the way the best hitters of all time hit. Hitting is not all mechanics. Feel plays into it. If you watch the best, they look similar on most hits, but there are some where they look totally different. Could be the decision to swing was late so they adjusted the mechanics to still get the hit.

 

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I don't think it is a good idea to teach a stride. Softball is such a shorter distance and less reaction time. Widen the stance to your stride distance. Develop the core for power and strentgh. With the bat technology nowadays the ball will go. My daughter is 5'4" and about 120lbs. and can hit as far as anyone. She will be playing at the D1 level in College. If you are teaching a stride it adds to the mental part of the game. No stride allows the hitter to focus more on mechanics and not guess on pitches.

Out of 70 plus kids in college at the current time, all stride.

Interesting we taught them how to throw first because most dads and or coaches never showed them how to throw correctly either and they learned momentum and naturally picked it up. Put your daughter on a radar gun and see what she throws over hand and you may be surprised to find out it is 52 to 58 MPH.

We teach load on the K position at 12 o'clock and step on the release and it works pretty well. I have found over 20 years that most of these girls are not as stupid as you may find them to be and see this as an excuse not to teach them how to use their bodies properly which is why most of the girls throw like girls instead of like athletes. This is mainly because they land flat footed and do use eversion to allow the hip to keep moving during the heel plant phase. The glutes in a male fire just before landing however that does not happen in the females which is why most coaches do not know how to teach it. Start off with their shoulders are narrower and more rounded, the carrying angle is more pronounced on the throwing arm, the hamstring are out of balance to the quads, the hips are wider placing the knees more under them which puts the ACL more at risk, the front of their foot is normally wider and the back of their foot is narrower, the spine is more erect than the males as we are tilted slightly forward. Interesting that for base ball the knee injury rate is 3% and for females it is 30.7%. Makes you wonder why or at least it did me anyway.

I need to tell my 11, 12 and 13 year girls that do not even weigh 120 pounds that they are lucky to be able to hit a 200 foot shot because they stride and it may be too much for them to handle mentally.

I try not to impose limits on my kids so they can show me what they can do not what I think they can't do. Check you tube out some more and you can find Michelle Smith using a no stride and then Bustos using a stride who owns the highest number of home runs and has a plus .400 average over ten years playing time. Go figure that on a woman's softball site you find men to emulate the swing the girls should be using and then explain it as too mental...to teach.

 

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Playing the Devil's advocate here, so bear with me...

Through the years, I've heard all the arguments AGAINST a stride - it causes head movement, not enough time to get set, etc. But if those arguments are valid, why do most of the best fastpitch hitters in the world stride? My take is the purpose of the stride is misunderstood. I don't look at it so much as a timing mechanism; I think of it as an integrated part of the swing, who's purpose is to get energy from the core moving forward, very similar to a forward step when throwing - or a pitcher's stride. At toe touch all forward movement stops, and rotation takes over; propelled by the sudden stop of the forward motion. You certainly wouldn't teach your kids a "no-stride" throw, or pitchers a slingshot "no-stride" pitching motion. Forward motion is power.

If it's taught from the very beginning as a core principle of good swing mechanics, why wouldn't kids be able to do it correctly? The ONLY reason I would see NOT to use a stride is for a specialty hitting situation. But IMO, all things being equal, a kid using a stride will hit the ball MUCH harder than those that do not. Home runs have nothing to do with it. Hitting the ball hard on the ground puts pressure on the defense, and often results in errors, or a gap hit - where a dribbler is easily fielded.

Good post. I have some thoughts.

Back in my HS years the coaches taught us to stride. We did it and we did well. When that layer of kids went to college they all had a stride, mostly because they were taught that in HS. Was the stride we were taught then the best way? No it wasn't and the same coaches teach differently now. The new batch of kids go to college and don't stride, or at least stride DIFFERENTLY.

So the fact that many (most?) stride could be simply because they were taught that at an early age and they learned to use it very well, which as you mention could be part of a core principle, etc. And I agree.

However.... There are other ways to get that forward energy without a stride. Either the foot up and down (I don't teach it but know some that do well with it) or the heal rise and plant, etc. or some other ways. I like using a hip shift to get all that started and rotate around that front leg which then allows all kinds of good things to happen.

So.... I think there is a stride that can work very well. And a stride that is excessive and causes the head movement, etc. The stride that I'd even say that I'm a fan of (yet don't teach personally) is about the width of the players hand, say at most 4 inches (big hand for a girl). I don't like the weight transfer as part of the stride though but mostly to get things moving and to ultimately get to planting that front foot. Does it matter if you use the small stride, the heel rise, or another way to plant the foot? Not really, as long as you end up in the same spot without complicated mechanics or head movement.

My main focus is that if I can get to the same point in a swing with less parts to it then there is less that can go wrong. If a individual player feels more comfortable and it works for HER to do something a bit different, I'm ok with it.

 

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Out of 70 plus kids in college at the current time, all stride.

Interesting we taught them how to throw first because most dads and or coaches never showed them how to throw correctly either and they learned momentum and naturally picked it up. Put your daughter on a radar gun and see what she throws over hand and you may be surprised to find out it is 52 to 58 MPH.

We teach load on the K position at 12 o'clock and step on the release and it works pretty well. I have found over 20 years that most of these girls are not as stupid as you may find them to be and see this as an excuse not to teach them how to use their bodies properly which is why most of the girls throw like girls instead of like athletes. This is mainly because they land flat footed and do use eversion to allow the hip to keep moving during the heel plant phase. The glutes in a male fire just before landing however that does not happen in the females which is why most coaches do not know how to teach it. Start off with their shoulders are narrower and more rounded, the carrying angle is more pronounced on the throwing arm, the hamstring are out of balance to the quads, the hips are wider placing the knees more under them which puts the ACL more at risk, the front of their foot is normally wider and the back of their foot is narrower, the spine is more erect than the males as we are tilted slightly forward. Interesting that for base ball the knee injury rate is 3% and for females it is 30.7%. Makes you wonder why or at least it did me anyway.

I need to tell my 11, 12 and 13 year girls that do not even weigh 120 pounds that they are lucky to be able to hit a 200 foot shot because they stride and it may be too much for them to handle mentally.

I try not to impose limits on my kids so they can show me what they can do not what I think they can't do. Check you tube out some more and you can find Michelle Smith using a no stride and then Bustos using a stride who owns the highest number of home runs and has a plus .400 average over ten years playing time. Go figure that on a woman's softball site you find men to emulate the swing the girls should be using and then explain it as too mental...to teach.

Additionally the girls have to overcome the larger ball and the urge to push as a movement. Without constant reinforcement to maximize the throw as they get older and have larger hands the "throw like a girl" motion will become so ingrained that it will be near impossible (yet doable) to overcome.

 

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Let's say you have a struggling kid who strides, and you take the stride away. Suddenly she starts making contact on a more consistent basis. How do you know it was the stride causing the problem? Maybe her timing was off, or she wasn't even originally taught how to stride correctly? Removing the stride could quite possibly mask another swing flaw that was the root of the problem, and had nothing to do with the stride itself.

An interesting poll might be to ask how many coaches (or parents) use video on a consistent basis to get a good idea of what is REALLY happening in their kid's swing? Or how many simply feel they don't need to use tools like that because they can see everything well enough live?

 

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I don't think I have ever seen a coach use video. Is it common? Do they slow mo it and break it down?

I as a parent wouldn't be able to pick out any flaws on video or live so I leave it to the coaches and thankfully, they are doing a great job.

 

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Additionally the girls have to overcome the larger ball and the urge to push as a movement. Without constant reinforcement to maximize the throw as they get older and have larger hands the "throw like a girl" motion will become so ingrained that it will be near impossible (yet doable) to overcome.

Coach my definition of throwing like a girl is they do not use their legs. The back foot leg usually does not release at all or at best may drag their toe a little. They have no concept of what a weight shift is as the female knee does not fire like ours and the hips are wider. Momentum even eludes them and again this is why we teach throwing first and then balance in the hitting stance next. Look at some of the girls and you will see how some have the knees almost touching each other just standing there. It is a little different in their world verses ours as to balance however they can be taught if you understand how to relate to the differences so they can see it, feel it and fix it.

 

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I don't think it is a good idea to teach a stride. Softball is such a shorter distance and less reaction time. Widen the stance to your stride distance. Develop the core for power and strentgh. With the bat technology nowadays the ball will go. My daughter is 5'4" and about 120lbs. and can hit as far as anyone. She will be playing at the D1 level in College. If you are teaching a stride it adds to the mental part of the game. No stride allows the hitter to focus more on mechanics and not guess on pitches.

This is the exact mentality that caused Pitching to become SOO dominant in the past ten years, that they now change rules to make the game more exciting.. Telling girls they cant hit that fast pitcher, so choke up, start the bat back towards the catcher, dont stride.. You cant hit like boys because the distance is too short from the pitcher.. Please.. teach them and they can learn..Tell them they cant and they won't.. Hitting is now coming back, because these myths that you cant take a " regular swing" and hit fastpitch are being taken down!!

If you practice about any style enough you can become proficient at it, but it is the mentality behind it.. here do this it is easier, no the best hitters in the game do not do this, but you can hit just fine like this..... I just prefer to set the bar a little higher

 

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Being closer to the pitcher is another excuse I've heard a lot. The pitching DISTANCE has nothing to do with it. However, it's the TIME from pitcher's hand release to the hitting zone that matters. Timing for hitting in women's fastpitch at the top college level is very similar to baseball at the equivalent level. The quickness difference from softball to baseball come from the basepath difference. IMO, executing a stride has nothing to do with "shortening a swing" - it's a matter of timing principles. Get to toe touch at the correct time, and you're ready to "hold up or swing".

So - are we telling our girls they aren't coordinated enough to properly swing a bat and hit as effectively as the boys because our softball pitcher is CLOSER than in baseball? I know a LOT of girls at the college level that will give you a tough argument...

 

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Great posts! I appreciate all the feedback! Anyone working with kids can learn lots from all on this thread. I personally do not care for the stride because USUALLY (not in all cases) this triggers the beginning of the swing (muscle memory). As the girls get older and face consistent good pitching it makes it more difficult to adjust to the change up and other varying pitches. ESPECIALLY if the pitches are effective. Just my experiences. It has worked well for my daughter.

 

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Great posts! I appreciate all the feedback! Anyone working with kids can learn lots from all on this thread. I personally do not care for the stride because USUALLY (not in all cases) this triggers the beginning of the swing (muscle memory). As the girls get older and face consistent good pitching it makes it more difficult to adjust to the change up and other varying pitches. ESPECIALLY if the pitches are effective. Just my experiences. It has worked well for my daughter.

Put a little perspective to it...Finch can come from the top of the K position to release in about .11 to .16 hundredths of a second. From release maybe .24 to .28 and it crosses the plate. Blink your eyes as fast as you can twice and that is about one second. Now blink one time and that is about a half of a second. Do the math and in less than .5 seconds and you must decide to swing or not

How you time it will be the issue and if your body is in motion it may make it easier...

 

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Let's say you have a struggling kid who strides, and you take the stride away. Suddenly she starts making contact on a more consistent basis. How do you know it was the stride causing the problem? Maybe her timing was off, or she wasn't even originally taught how to stride correctly? Removing the stride could quite possibly mask another swing flaw that was the root of the problem, and had nothing to do with the stride itself.

An interesting poll might be to ask how many coaches (or parents) use video on a consistent basis to get a good idea of what is REALLY happening in their kid's swing? Or how many simply feel they don't need to use tools like that because they can see everything well enough live?

Nothing replaces video for seeing what REALLY is going on but experience and watching the player in games, during drills, etc. gives you a pretty good idea of any MECHANICAL issues that may be going on. Experience in working with hitters and constantly learning from others can take you quite far in knowing the root of a problem.

 

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I don't think I have ever seen a coach use video. Is it common? Do they slow mo it and break it down?

I as a parent wouldn't be able to pick out any flaws on video or live so I leave it to the coaches and thankfully, they are doing a great job.

I use video but the biggest value I get out of it is to show the player what I'm talking about. Many times they don't believe that they are really doing something but when they see it the "buy in" happens quicker.

With my son and daughter I use video much more, frame by frame. I don't go over frame by frame WITH my daughter but I do with my son because he's ready for that.