Hitting and Hitters Discussion Forget the Riseball... LET'S TALK HITTING!!!

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Coach my definition of throwing like a girl is they do not use their legs. The back foot leg usually does not release at all or at best may drag their toe a little. They have no concept of what a weight shift is as the female knee does not fire like ours and the hips are wider. Momentum even eludes them and again this is why we teach throwing first and then balance in the hitting stance next. Look at some of the girls and you will see how some have the knees almost touching each other just standing there. It is a little different in their world verses ours as to balance however they can be taught if you understand how to relate to the differences so they can see it, feel it and fix it.

Absolutely. I was just throwing in there that ONE of the things that girls tend to do is push the ball.

 

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This is the exact mentality that caused Pitching to become SOO dominant in the past ten years, that they now change rules to make the game more exciting.. Telling girls they cant hit that fast pitcher, so choke up, start the bat back towards the catcher, dont stride.. You cant hit like boys because the distance is too short from the pitcher.. Please.. teach them and they can learn..Tell them they cant and they won't.. Hitting is now coming back, because these myths that you cant take a " regular swing" and hit fastpitch are being taken down!!

If you practice about any style enough you can become proficient at it, but it is the mentality behind it.. here do this it is easier, no the best hitters in the game do not do this, but you can hit just fine like this..... I just prefer to set the bar a little higher

Good stuff. Given a clean slate I teach the way I teach because it is the best swing I know. I don't teach it because of the common "excuses" you point out above but because it works as a hitter. My son's and daughter's swings look very similar except where THEIR differences take over.

When I go to the HS hitting camp and they are teaching that elbows connected to the ribcage weak swat at the ball I cringe. If that is what a player has to do in order to get the ball into play that shows that somebody didn't take the time with that player earlier in their career or that player was willing to listen.

 

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Any good hitting videos on You Tube? If so, could you please post the links? Thanks.

 

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So - are we telling our girls they aren't coordinated enough to properly swing a bat and hit as effectively as the boys because our softball pitcher is CLOSER than in baseball? I know a LOT of girls at the college level that will give you a tough argument...[/QUOTE]

Thank you Sammy, for reiterating my point exactly..

 

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Many hitting sites that post youtube videos. discussfastpitch.com baseballdebate.com baseballforum.com. The problem with them will be you will see how much debate between hitting camps on the same swing. This is more of a social form, they are not.

 

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It's like talking politics or religion.

I love talking hitting when it is a discussion and not a flame-fest.

 

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Absolutely. I was just throwing in there that ONE of the things that girls tend to do is push the ball.

One of the things to pushing the ball coach is when they come out of the glove they bring the ball straight back verses ball down and back elbow up and then circle and throw. Some coaches actually teach this as they think it is quicker....less MPH means less speed.

We have a freshman at Valparaiso that was checked and is throwing 66 MPH and is 18 years old.

I have a freshman also in high school who was gunned at 68 and is 14 years old. Once they understand the legs it is a whole new world.

One of my little ones is 9 or 10 and plays baseball and her grandfather had her call me and she said the boys do not want to play with me because I throw too hard!

 

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Put a little perspective to it...Finch can come from the top of the K position to release in about .11 to .16 hundredths of a second. From release maybe .24 to .28 and it crosses the plate. Blink your eyes as fast as you can twice and that is about one second. Now blink one time and that is about a half of a second. Do the math and in less than .5 seconds and you must decide to swing or not

How you time it will be the issue and if your body is in motion it may make it easier...

So......If it makes it easier by getting your body in motion..........how do you teach to hit a chnage up in that situation. I could see the benfit if the hitter knows what pitch they are getting. How do you teach making adjustments on a 60mph fastball and a 40 mph change? The natural body motion and timing puts you out in front of that pitch, correct?

 

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It's like talking politics or religion.

I love talking hitting when it is a discussion and not a flame-fest.[/QUOTE]

ME TOO!

Something else to think about... From a young age, kids are instructed to "only swing at the good pitches". So in their mind they are thinking "wait until the pitch looks good, get ready, SWING!" By the time they decide the pitch looks good, they aren't in a ready position to swing the bat, so their form goes down the tubes - and they are late on the pitch. I think teaching that mentality is kind of backwards.

I like the idea of teaching a proper stride from the beginning. The mentality should be to "prepare to hit EVERY pitch" like it's YOUR pitch. The stride to toe touch is the "get ready" part. But it must be done at the proper time - Not too early, and not too late. Get to toe touch with good timing as if you were intending to hit EVERY SINGLE PITCH, then HOLD UP if the pitch is not "your pitch". ALL great hitters do this. Think "HIT, hold"; not "hold, HIT".

The "load, stride, swing" should be one fluid movement - if the batter timed the pitch properly. That's why a good change-up can be so deceiving. But as kids advance, they can learn to pick up a change-up by different cues, both from knowing the count, pitch patterns and ball spin.

Prepare for EVERY pitch!!

 

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It's like talking politics or religion.

I love talking hitting when it is a discussion and not a flame-fest.[/QUOTE]

ME TOO!

Something else to think about... From a young age, kids are instructed to "only swing at the good pitches". So in their mind they are thinking "wait until the pitch looks good, get ready, SWING!" By the time they decide the pitch looks good, they aren't in a ready position to swing the bat, so their form goes down the tubes - and they are late on the pitch. I think teaching that mentality is kind of backwards.

I like the idea of teaching a proper stride from the beginning. The mentality should be to "prepare to hit EVERY pitch" like it's YOUR pitch. The stride to toe touch is the "get ready" part. But it must be done at the proper time - Not too early, and not too late. Get to toe touch with good timing as if you were intending to hit EVERY SINGLE PITCH, then HOLD UP if the pitch is not "your pitch". ALL great hitters do this. Think "HIT, hold"; not "hold, HIT".

The "load, stride, swing" should be one fluid movement - if the batter timed the pitch properly. That's why a good change-up can be so deceiving. But as kids advance, they can learn to pick up a change-up by different cues, both from knowing the count, pitch patterns and ball spin.

Prepare for EVERY pitch!!

To go along with that mind-set add a bit to say "The only decision you should be making is to NOT swing.".

We all know that many kids "decide to swing" and by then it is too late. By tell them what you tell them and additionally "The only decision you should be making is to NOT swing." that gets all their mechanics going and then they can hold up.

We actually practice swinging and deciding not to swing. I can't describe it here but it looks like one big body twitch. This also practices the first movements to the swing when all that energy that has been stored up starts to uncoil.

To go a bit further... "The only decision you should be making is to NOT swing." doesn't mean you aren't haven't thought of the game situation. That is done before you get set in the batters box. Once you are in there and ready for the pitch you should already have your plan in place. We all know that doesn't hold true 100% of the time but for young hitters it is a fair thing to say.

 

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Put a little perspective to it...Finch can come from the top of the K position to release in about .11 to .16 hundredths of a second. From release maybe .24 to .28 and it crosses the plate. Blink your eyes as fast as you can twice and that is about one second. Now blink one time and that is about a half of a second. Do the math and in less than .5 seconds and you must decide to swing or not

How you time it will be the issue and if your body is in motion it may make it easier...

So......If it makes it easier by getting your body in motion..........how do you teach to hit a chnage up in that situation. I could see the benfit if the hitter knows what pitch they are getting. How do you teach making adjustments on a 60mph fastball and a 40 mph change? The natural body motion and timing puts you out in front of that pitch, correct?

My opinion....

And remember I know there are several valid ways to create motion and skin this cat.....

Foot plant, via heel lift, short lift, small stride, etc. and the beginnings of the hip shift give you what you need to hit the fast ball or react the the change. Teaching pitch recognition is critical in being able to make those adjustments to either keep the finger on the trigger just a hair longer or make a late adjustment (if you are fooled a bit). On the late adjustment the swing isn't one fluid motion that maximized the power but should still allow the hips to fire.

And of course if you are just outright fooled you make whatever arm swing you have to in order to put the ball in play if the count dictates it.

 

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I like the idea of teaching a proper stride from the beginning. The mentality should be to "prepare to hit EVERY pitch" like it's YOUR pitch. The stride to toe touch is the "get ready" part. But it must be done at the proper time - Not too early, and not too late. Get to toe touch with good timing as if you were intending to hit EVERY SINGLE PITCH, then HOLD UP if the pitch is not "your pitch".

Question for you Mr. Sammy. After your toe touch what do you have the hitter do? I assume that a load and toe touch happens then.....?

Here is why I ask. To me the toe touch is very similar to just starting out with a raised heel with no stride. If I can guess your next move the foot plants?

 

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Toe touch is mission critical: Either you start your swing or hold. Depending on who you believe - I see them as nearly simultaneous - heel plant and the first move of the back elbow downward to slot, which is the beginning of rotation, immediately follows a "go" decision.

I see a LOT of kids stride WAY too early, and kind of just freeze at toe touch, which destroys the momentum gained with the forward motion. That might happen with a change-up if the batter is fooled, but normally it's all one motion. Taking the stride out is not always the answer for hitting a good change-up pitcher, because some of the best hitters in the world stride - and STILL hit change-ups VERY well.

My favorite page to link to:
http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/olympic?z=9&c=4&n=1&m=24&w=4&x=0&p=1

 

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Put a little perspective to it...Finch can come from the top of the K position to release in about .11 to .16 hundredths of a second. From release maybe .24 to .28 and it crosses the plate. Blink your eyes as fast as you can twice and that is about one second. Now blink one time and that is about a half of a second. Do the math and in less than .5 seconds and you must decide to swing or not

How you time it will be the issue and if your body is in motion it may make it easier...

So......If it makes it easier by getting your body in motion..........how do you teach to hit a chnage up in that situation. I could see the benfit if the hitter knows what pitch they are getting. How do you teach making adjustments on a 60mph fastball and a 40 mph change? The natural body motion and timing puts you out in front of that pitch, correct?

We build this into the swing...the hitter has to have a sense of timing and judgment of speed. When teaching someone how to drive the hardest thing to do is judge distance and when to pull out in traffic or merge onto the freeway. Our timing mechanism comes from the front leg being flexed at toe touch to allow our hip to keep moving until the decision to swing is made. One drill that is very useful is the Bonds drill. We have them get in a cage and set up beyond where the catcher sets up. We want them to have to adjust to every pitch. So we are working low to high and slow to fast and we take a step forward after each swing. Most kids can not adjust after 4 to 5 feet and that is how bad their timing is. Slow to load and soft to step on a flexed front knee with the hands separating rearward a little. For me the hips are moving forward and when heel plant begins and in some it is during or at heel plant rotation will begin and the back elbow is lowering and coming into slot and if the hands are back we do pretty well to adjust to any pitch. Work on what is causing the hitter not to be able to adjust. We also think in terms if we have seen this enough we are creating a swing DNA. Keep moving forward unless you are in a public cage and are limited to how safely you can move forward. Then once you have reached your limit reverse and go from fast t slow high to low.

We also work two tees one inside and one outside and as they load I call in or out so they have to adjust from a tracking stand point and for timing stand point.

Not everyone gears the mechanics of the swing and use pitching machines without ever moving and this builds no sense of actually what the pitcher is try to do and that is to make the hitter make choices.

Howard

 

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Toe touch is mission critical: Either you start your swing or hold. Depending on who you believe - I see them as nearly simultaneous - heel plant and the first move of the back elbow downward to slot, which is the beginning of rotation, immediately follows a "go" decision.

I see a LOT of kids stride WAY too early, and kind of just freeze at toe touch, which destroys the momentum gained with the forward motion. That might happen with a change-up if the batter is fooled, but normally it's all one motion. Taking the stride out is not always the answer for hitting a good change-up pitcher, because some of the best hitters in the world stride - and STILL hit change-ups VERY well.

My favorite page to link to:
http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/olympic?z=9&c=4&n=1&m=24&w=4&x=0&p=1

I have subtle differences in my philosophy but nothing to quibble about. I'll bet that if we spent a few hours with each other things would be very similar and the perspectives would be beneficial for both.

I don't teach toe touch but the main goal is the same I would bet.

 

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So - are we telling our girls they aren't coordinated enough to properly swing a bat and hit as effectively as the boys because our softball pitcher is CLOSER than in baseball? I know a LOT of girls at the college level that will give you a tough argument...

Thank you Sammy, for reiterating my point exactly..[/QUOTE]



I agree, being closer has nothing to do with timing. Softball pitchers are @ 2/3 the distance of a baseball pitcher, but the ball is coming in @ 2/3 the speed, so the reaction time is basically the same. A baseball swing works very well for softball. Little if any difference. One still has to get the bat to the ball no matter where, or at what height the ball is coming in.

 

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I have subtle differences in my philosophy but nothing to quibble about. I'll bet that if we spent a few hours with each other things would be very similar and the perspectives would be beneficial for both.

I don't teach toe touch but the main goal is the same I would bet.

Coach you are going to like this....please read all the way through first!

"At the initial learning stage, a student commonly makes movement errors by misunderstanding the proper structure of the skill. In other words, while learning, a student is sometimes unable to fully understand the teacher's instructions. With an improper image of the skill, the student's motor cortex will send inaccurate signals to the related muscle groups, reducing movement errors. A student's misunderstanding of the skill can result from any of several potential causes.
Teachers commonly use verbal instruction to teach students about limb positions, proper stance, what to watch and listen for, and how to perform a particular skill. The goal at this stage is to provide the student with the right image of the skill as a guide for practice. Intellectual ability plays an important role in understanding the skill; therefore, some students may understand instructions quicker than others because of individual differences of intellectual abilities. Similarly, the student's motivation and attention span can affect learning. If the student has a limited memory capacity, a lengthy instruction can cause confusion, especially when the student is learning a complex skill. All of these factors can impair the student's ability, to conceptualize the correct image of the skill."

After reading this what do you think they were trying to describe or teach to do?

Everybody like polls....so guess what they are teaching? Please!

 

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There aren't too many clues. Umm, typing?

 

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Teaching a blind student mobility skills? Using verbal cues?

 

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Teaching a blind student mobility skills? Using verbal cues?

Teaching people how to run a boom crane....look at what they are saying and really how close it is too hitting in my opinion.