growing or polluted

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[quote author=Hawks14U link=1186833203/0#14 date=1186925727]Fastpitch is one of (if not) the highest participation sport for girls in the country...

According to the NFHS, fastpitch is fourth on the participation list (as of the 2004-05 school year):

Sport	Girls Participation
Basketball	456,543
Track and Field-Outdoor	428,198
Volleyball	386,022
Softball-Fast Pitch	364,759

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I would chalk these numbers up to the fact that to play fastpitch at a high level requires much more skill that the other sports. Softball requires so many different skill sets that are not related to each other to play the game. The skill required to hit, field, pitch, catch as well as the mental capacity to "know" the game and the situations it presents are completely independent of each other.

 

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But is NFHS just tracking school participation? ?I can't help but think that fastpitch participation is higher than that when it is "off season" participation. ?And, does it take into account the number of participants at a younger-than-high-school age?

I know Ohio got on the map at the 12U ASA nationals this year. ?Two teams in the top 9 made the California teams take notice.
The victor (and other Ohio teams) in the PONYs also woke up the participating teams from the east coast.

No such thing as polluted. If girls want to play, find them a place to play.

 

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But is NFHS just tracking school participation? ?I can't help but think that fastpitch participation is higher than that when it is "off season" participation. ?And, does it take into account the number of participants at a younger-than-high-school age?

I know Ohio got on the map at the 12U ASA nationals this year. ?Two teams in the top 9 made the California teams take notice.
The victor (and other Ohio teams) in the PONYs also woke up the participating teams from the east coast.

No such thing as polluted. ?If girls want to play, find them a place to play.

Obviously an organization such as the NFHS is only tracking participation for High Schools, but should reflect the popularity of the sport in general. Here is the link if you want to compare it to other sports or fastpitch over time...

http://www.nfhs.org/custom/participation_figures/default.aspx

Here are the results of participation in California. I didn't post these earlier as the thread is about fastpitch in Ohio, but the trend may hold true for Ohio as well.

http://www.dyestatcal.com/news/xc2007/August/05 CIF Growth Survey.htm

As you can see, softball is the 5th most popular sport for girls in Cali. Trends, however, have other sports gaining ground in the total number of participants.

 

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You have to believe that the more opportunities the ladies receive more players can be developed. These players grow and teams become stronger. F they stay with the original team and it grows or they switch to a different organization the level of competition is being raised. Ss more teams grow and become more competitive, softball as a whole grows and benefits. IMHO

 

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cshilt-
Great stats to look at regarding trends for high schools. ?I am by no means a statistical expert, but I know that in our local area participation in softball is down while participation in cross country and track is rising. ? :'( ?

BTW, that's a main reason my DD sought to play at a "more skilled" level. ?Participation on a local level wasn't high enough in numbers to be challenging enough in skill level. ?Then one thing led to another . . . .

Maybe, as Ringer stated, it does have more to do with the skill level needed to participate in softball not just at a high level, but at a satisfying level. ?It is very hard on a young ego to not be able to catch most of the balls thrown/hit to you, or to barely be able to hit the ball. ?However, it is satisfying to be able to say you finished the race, no matter in what place you finish.

It also says a lot for those dedicated first-level coaches (moms and dads, usually) willing to teach even the very basics of a high skill level sport. ?More important for the sport are those who are willing to encourage their young athlete to stick with it, even when it becomes difficult.

But I digress -- this thread was "growing or polluted?' ?Based on the NFHS statistics, does the question then become "is it growing enough?" ;D

 

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I agree with the "Is it growing enough?" My DD attends a high school with more than 1400 students and did not have enough girls go out for softball to field both a varsity and jv team.

 

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I just don't want to see it become a glorified , and expensive , little league. Sorry I held off for days without replying because I'm a rookie at fastpitch (not even close to the 10 yr requirement) . hope I did'nt spoil the thread . FWIW ---I vote polluted. WHY ---A team with a complete roster where there is'nt a huge falloff from batter 1 to 9 is far too rare. Too many teams have 4-6 good players and 3-5 that should be enjoying rec ball. MD

 

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MD --

I guess I'm conditioned by my team's experience this summer. At 18u we played at Compuware, Stingrays, GAPSS, Loudonville, Best of the Best, and Louisville (Colorado). So I didn't see any teams with the kind of fall-off you describe. But even in the case of such a fall-off, why is that bad? If someone wants to play and can pay the freight, then who are we to say that's a bad thing, especially since, as mentioned in a previous post on this thread, most teams find their own level.

 

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Let's count the number of major league baseball teams where the talent starts falling off 7-9... and the 7-9 players are making millions. Other than the very top teams in each league, most of them do fall off. Tell me why the 7-9 softball players should be playing rec ball again????

 

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but with that logic, the Red Sox and the Yankees play 82 games against each other....no one else deserves to compete unless they have 9 studs batting? i do agree there is parity in the majors, but these are kids we are talking about...with so many levels of travel ball, it's unfair to call an unsuccessful team rec ballers or to label travel softball as "parity" ridden or polluted.

 

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Note the word HUGE before falloff ----no I'm not an "elitist" but I see alot of 12u girls who are not ready for travel ball. Of course the 1-2 is better than 7-9 , but 7-9 should be able to get a ball out of the infield occassionally . MD

 

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In the words of Al Gore its Polluted!

 

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part of the problem is that rec ball is SOOOO bad. Half the team is playing just because mom and dad need a babysitter. I've seen many girls come from rec ball with lots of natural talent but it hasn't been developed by Buttermaker in BFEville. They may need a year or two of good travel ball to refine it.

 

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Manitou,
Excuse my ignorance, but I just can't tell if a girl is ready for travel ball. If she is coachable, then she is ready in my opinion. If we wait for "some" of the rec. ball coaches to get her ready, we wouldn't have anything to pollute... it would all dry up.

 

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another way to maybe make my point ---should you have to spend several hundred (we wish) or maybe 1000-2000$$ to let a kid who is just "coachable" play softball ? --I don't think as a parent I should have to --thats what LL is for. Don't get me wrong --If Pappa and Momma want to fork out the dough to have their kid play travel ball thats their choice . I'm done with this topic ----no hard feelings to anyone out there in OFC land . It is sad that LL just barely seems to treading water , at least in my neck of the woods. MD

 

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Buttermaker in BFEville.

ringer's new screen name?

we can agree to disagree, Dan, that's what the ofc is for, and thanks for not turning this into a bloody sopabox...sometimes, as much as it hurts not to do so, is to become an evaluator of the sport from sitting next to the bench..yes, there are multiple 0-2 teams after pool play every weekend, but there were some in ASA nationals too...did they not belong? did someone who didnt win a game at compuware pollute the tourney? let's all play ball and post like crazy!

 

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bruiser, I didn't read all the other replies so forgive me if I'm repeating something that's already been said. Yes, anyone can have a travel team nowadays. However, they all tend to migrate to the level that they are at. You typically don't see the b-ball teams playing ASA, or at least you won't see many at Nationals. So, it's OK that everybody and their momma is playing travel ball. There is room for everyone.

 

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[quote author=Ohio Wave 11U link=1186833203/25#32 date=1187062582]Buttermaker in BFEville.

ringer's new screen name?
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I'll be Buttermaker. Does that mean I can have a cooler full of Strohs in the dugout and Tatum O'neill on the mound?

 

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why, it would match my cooler full of keystones!

 

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Bringing the quality of rec/LL ball into this discussion could put a different twist on this discussion. It has been a number of years since any of my DD's were involved in playing rec ball, but I doubt the issues have changed much. If my fading memory serves me correctly, the "good" games that we played (particularly younger ages) were few and far between. Even those parents that were not interested in travel ball had concerns about what their child was getting from the program. This is just one fool's opinion, but I would guess there are travel players that would be very happy playing in a reasonably competitive rec league. This is not meant to be a slam against rec leagues or any of the volunteers that make those programs happen. Personally I know I coached a couple of my older DD's when they played rec ball, and thought I knew something about the game. It is now about 8-9 years of travel ball later (ocassional asst. coaching stints) at all different levels. Am I an expert, certainly not, there are many that know more then me. Do I know more then I did when I was a rec league volunteer, I am pretty sure I have learned a thing or two. Would I make a better coach? I hope so, but coaching is only partially about knowledge. All of that rambling to ask. If we really improved our rec programs and the level of play, would we better the overall game of softball and encourage even more participation?