Hitting and Hitters Discussion Hitting fixes

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These ideas are hardly new, they may be new to some of us but hardly new. The ability to see frame by frame and compare via RVP is revolutionary. Don has revolutionized the way hitters swings are analyzed and compared, he did not invent a new way to hit.

That is exactly correct! He did not find a new way to swing however started explaining it so most people could comprehend it better.

I think Epstein's eyes were opened when Don showed him TSW doing a linear weight shift.

 

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Len. Not to play the back and forth game on here. You stated you have RVP. Go to four view and watch Alex Rodriques, Andrew Jones, Albert Pujols and Chipper Jones to name a few. Now stop the swing at HP after you draw a line on the hip. Each goes foward, but they don't turn till HP. Unless I'm missing something, each may have different styles to get to this point, but I don't see the hip turn. Perhaps we might be looking at the same thing, but each has a different view of what hip turn is.

 

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Hey Tim
You make a great point. "After watching clips of Tammy Williams hit tonight I discoverd it dosent matter what you use as long as it works for you."
Hitting systems are like diets. There are many to choose from, each one has their sucess stories, testimonials, clients, and the data to back up their product.

What system did this Dayton HS team use before switching to RVP in the 2008 season? Did they use MotionPro, Sports Motion, Epstein, BatSpeed, Pure Hitter Pro, or some other system? My guess is that they did not use a system. If they would have used any of the above systems and stuck to the program they would have achieved favorable results.

You're right, numbers don't lie. RVP is not the only system out there producing numbers and favorable results. The best thing us amateurs should do is expand our knowlege by studying different sytems. Look at and soak in everyting you can. Sticking with one system is much like wearing blinders....you will not see what is around the corner. Expand you knowlege and continuously learn.

Len

Len if you are a stock broker and I invest money with you and you make me money and I trust you...would I want to pull up the tent and move all my investments just for the sake of trying to understand how to make more money or stick with you? Does your data reflect your position you take when selecting a stock based on trends, gut check etc.

I have had this conversation with Don and Bull and part of what they said was convincing someone who is making 15 to 20 million dollars that they should change something in their swing is like talking to a wall....their response is this is what got me here why change?

A friend of mine who trained with TSW recounted a story that TSW told...look out there and tell me what you see (looking at the baseball field from the dugout)? That is not grass that is the color of money and when someone wants you to change something in your swing can they make you more money from doing it? You should know them well enough and ask others if it helped them and if it has listen to them.

I think what we teach as to what Crystl and I teach is not new however how we do it helps the hitter see it, feel it and fix it. Crystl brings with her a unique way of gettting the female athletes perspective that most of the men coaching do not have.

Chip will most likely remember the persons name (NFCA 2004) however I think she might have been UK's AD and played in the WNBA...she went on to tell a story of how her coach in the WNBA yelled at her during a game and said he had boys that tried harder to get the ball going out of bounds than she did. She gave it back to him and he benched her until they started loosing and put her back in. Girls are motivated differently and can be as competitive as anyone if they are taught how to do what it is you are teaching. She said do not raise your hand to the crowd of about 1,200 coaches mostly men and said how many of you have been married more than once? How many of you women have had failed relationships with your partners? She pointed out you are coaching girls and your marriages and relationships are failing...do you wonder why? You could have heard a pin drop! She said women want more information and if you do not know how to communicate with them whatever it is you are trying to teach will fail!

At the social hour that evening that speaker was the topic of conversation and Crystl's voice was in my head...you have to get the girls to feel what we are saying Howard and they will get it! We had been working together about two years at that point and now after seven years I think I understand it better.

I have never found it all in one book, one cd, one person's system however the kids seem to be getting better and the data supports it.

 

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Len I had it made special and agreed with Crystl not to put it on the net and we only show it at the clinic's. However watch the 2004 Gold Medal game and you will see it. RVP also just released her swings they use in RVP from Team USA.

You are correct it is nothing new...measurable, observable and how can we test to see if one way works better than another such as balance, strength, grip, stance, vision...maybe it is the way we teach it and communicate it that seems to get the girls and the boys to understand it better. We also have some unique devices we have made to demonstrate it...if Chip still has the bounce bucket that is one of the devices.

 

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Yeah....they both tend to contradict themselves a couple of times but it's all good. RVP is still a valuable tool in anyone's collection.

Len

Len if you have RVP we tag (mark it with the illustration tools) the waist and then the hip and the feet and head so the hitter has an understanding of where they started and where in the swing they move linear and become more rotational.

I am not a doctor...because the hip works like a ball and socket as we go to toe touch, we tell our kids slow to load, soft to step on a flexed front knee to allow the hips to move linear as we are deciding when to start our swing. Scroll down if you have RVP softball instruction to Adjusting fast to slow as I think Sue says it pretty well as this understanding of the movement is what distinguishes the elite hitters from the travel ball and high school players or something to that effect. Most coaches I know do not teach this or in my opinion understand it well enough to teach it and the kids are confused. This is another reason we do not use 2 x 4's or the balance beam.

We have our hitters get to toe touch and what we call our attack mode and gently slap the lead hip thigh area and if flexed they can feel their hip structure move as you slap them on their thigh, we explain it as it should feel like their hips are jello on a plate looks if you move the plate and stop it will wiggle.

Now we have them stiffen the lead leg knee a little and the leg being stiffer prevents the ball socket action from working linear as much and when you slap the thigh area the jello feeling is lost.

When you tag the waist and the hips as they go to toe touch you will see the hips move more linear IF the knee is flexed. Depending on pitch, spin, speed and location you the hitter determine when you want the action of connection to begin and plant your heel which allows the ball and socket of the lead hip to be rotated and the back hip to become less rotational as the weight is shifting linear and more forward as the hip is turning and rotating around the lead hip.

We step up a against a 5 gallon bucket and place a concrete block on the outside edge of the back foot to get them to feel the release of the back side coming forward. If they squish the bug or just try and open the hip it will not happen.

Hope this helps

 

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Quote:
maybe it is the way we teach it and communicate it that seems to get the girls and the boys to understand it better. We also have some unique devices we have made to demonstrate it...if Chip still has the bounce bucket that is one of the devices.




Rvp is a system.

The big difference between this one and others is testing.
Howard has a hitting sequence for teaching the swing.
Different drills for each part.

H himself makes these contraptions to make it easy for guys like me to teach this hitting sequence.


If H, SB, LK, Boulderdad, Tom or any other hitting guys in the loop come up with an easier way to teach part of the swing, it is tested on students. If it works better and the kids understand it - revision


In the 2 years that I have known Howard his hitting sequence has been modified 3 times that I can think of.
It is not set in stone. Its still the same swing just easier to teach.


That's the beauty of this. A big group of people helping each other out ,making it easier to teach to the girls and boys. Its rvp revised.






Straightleg

 

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I love the bucket, well now it is a little fancier. It serves two purposes for me teaching.
1.load
2. Letting the ball travel
Another use is to teach the hitters how to sink and hold their angle on off-speed pitches.
My terminology may not make sense to anyone; I am and always be a hillbilly.

 

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I love the bucket, well now it is a little fancier. It serves two purposes for me teaching.
1.load
2. Letting the ball travel
Another use is to teach the hitters how to sink and hold their angle on off-speed pitches.
My terminology may not make sense to anyone; I am and always be a hillbilly.

Coming from someone that gets teased about being Larry the cable guy,s twin, .............Amen on the hillbilly

 

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Chip I modified the Instructo Swing base a few years ago so it will move up or down to anyone's desire as to angle and put a tee on the top bar. We gave one to Larry Ray and he likes it a lot. Tash used it when we did the clinic at Middletown a few years ago and liked it. However she tries to put the ball down 2 feet in front of the plate so I had to modify the angle of the tee to accommodate her and I doubt if anyone else would even understand exactly what she does and how the tee effects it.

I then modified the bounce bucket by using a base off the I/S and made a bracket so the tennis racket can be removed or replaced and is held in place so it provides a sturdy base to launch the balls off of...softballs or hard balls now! It is much improved over the old one however it was a start.

I will not touch the hillbilly line as I am married to one!

 

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Here is my post again, because for some reason you must think I was attacking Lester.

Lester that is a great attitude to have. (compliment)The only thing is I did not see Chip say it is impossible to achieve what Jordan or Oscar did. What he asked was if you show a kid a video or a stat and tell the kid now do what they did!! It does not work that way and Chip and everyone on here knows this. I think he was saying there will is only one Crystl Bustos and she is a freak of nature(compliment). It will be a long time till we see anyone come close to compare.(compliment)

I sure did give it to lester, howard, and crystl on that one. urggg!!!


Sorry for being so mean!!!
Mike

I'm a big boy...I thought it was a good reply with no attack. Keep the verbiage coming!!!

Besides, I usually get a pretty good ribbing from FastpitchBlue and Hitter as is and am somewhat calloused (and I'm married). :lmao:

 

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cincy static what hs does this player attend that had this great surge in numbers
if you dont mind me asking

Darrin,

One of the greatest disappointments I have witnessed as this great game has progressed over the past several years is to what extent some integrity lacking coaches will go in their efforts to get a great player from another team...unbelievably shady and dirty tactics are used on these girls sometimes. I am not saying this about you but for this reason I will leave her name off this site. You will easily be able to figure out who she is on your own. My memory served me wrong on her 2007 HR's...it was two rather than one. The results speak for themselves!!! Thanks Howard!

Here were her 2007 stats before Howard
G AB H BB 2B 3B HR RBI BA SB R K
27 86 26 3 3 2 2 15 .302 6 12 6

Here are her 2008 stats after Howard
G AB H BB 2B 3B HR RBI BA SB R K
25 87 41 5 4 5 7 32 .471 14 28 5

 

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You are welcome...Howard

 

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Darrin,

One of the greatest disappointments I have witnessed as this great game has progressed over the past several years is to what extent some integrity lacking coaches will go in their efforts to get a great player from another team...unbelievably shady and dirty tactics are used on these girls sometimes. I am not saying this about you but for this reason I will leave her name off this site. You will easily be able to figure out who she is on your own. My memory served me wrong on her 2007 HR's...it was two rather than one. The results speak for themselves!!! Thanks Howard!

Here were her 2007 stats before Howard
G AB H BB 2B 3B HR RBI BA SB R K
27 86 26 3 3 2 2 15 .302 6 12 6

Here are her 2008 stats after Howard
G AB H BB 2B 3B HR RBI BA SB R K
25 87 41 5 4 5 7 32 .471 14 28 5

I understand
I did not want a name of the young lady
Just thought I might know the High School she attends

 

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Len if you are a stock broker and I invest money with you and you make me money and I trust you...would I want to pull up the tent and move all my investments just for the sake of trying to understand how to make more money or stick with you?

Ask the people who were obtaining double digit returns with Madoff for over a decade only to lose their entire life savings in the blink of an eye. That is why a person should diversify, spreading their hard earned money into a multitude of investments. Similarly, a person wanting to learn anything should obtain information from a variety of sources. I bet there are some organizations that endorse RVP that also endorse other skills, drills, and analysis products.

By the way, I am not a stock broker, I am a Mortgage, Real Estate, and Private Placement Bonds asset manager for a financial services company in Cincinnati. I am nothing more than a bean counter.


Len

 

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Len. Not to play the back and forth game on here. You stated you have RVP. Go to four view and watch Alex Rodriques, Andrew Jones, Albert Pujols and Chipper Jones to name a few. Now stop the swing at HP after you draw a line on the hip. Each goes foward, but they don't turn till HP. Unless I'm missing something, each may have different styles to get to this point, but I don't see the hip turn. Perhaps we might be looking at the same thing, but each has a different view of what hip turn is.

SB, I do not have the analysis software I have the softball instruction videos. Anyway, I found Andruw Jones' swing. He rotates between toe touch and heel plant:
http://www.swingtraining.net/clips/andruw-04-05-front-side-st.gif

So does Chipper Jones
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXrIzn2CY8o&NR=1

I already posted A-Rod and Pujoles.

Hip rotation is hip rotation. I don't know why we would be seeing things differently.........

Len

 

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Len I see the lead hip working like a ball joint through the linear phase and as the back elbow closes the gap or lowers into the slot the back leg is moving forward still linear putting more weight inside the back leg and coming more under you and at that moment the heel is planting and as it plants rotation around the front hip is taking place...I swear I do not see what you are seeing.

As to investments and hitting using your analogy....should I use one broker for each investment so I have maybe 6 or 8 brokers opinions and confuse my clients or stick to one that is paying dividends that have data to back it up? At some point you have to try what YOU thinks works and go from there in my opinion.

RVP just introduced revisions again and that is evidence of continuous improvement verses that has always been this way and that is the way it will always be.

How long do you study before you commit to something? After 20 years I am still learning and changing and it appears from the data it keeps improving.

 

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Howard....this is getting old. I posted proof in the form of videos of elite hitters, you and SB have not.

See what you want to see. Invest how you want to invest. RVP contradicts itself about this phenomenon, probably because they themselves dont understand what they are seeing but in all honesty it is all good. I say it is still a good tool. But I will say that you should never stop studying and learning.

Len

 

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Howard....this is getting old. I posted proof in the form of videos of elite hitters, you and SB have not.

See what you want to see. Invest how you want to invest. RVP contradicts itself about this phenomenon, probably because they themselves dont understand what they are seeing but in all honesty it is all good. I say it is still a good tool. But I will say that you should never stop studying and learning.

Len

I went back to the RVP again, "Heel plant is the position where the heel of the front foot gets firmly planted, ending the positive move and fully transitioning the hitter into rotation. Heel plant establishes the front hip as the pivot point for rotation."

I guess it is to what degree you apply how much rotation is taking place verses forward movement being reduced and possibly being more individual in some hitters more than others. We appeared to have generated more power and contact by not getting the hitter focused on over rotating verses rotating as needed and being on time with the balls arrival and keeping our hands inside the path of the ball. You could see the glass half empty and I could see it as half full. And if both of us where in the desert it would still taste good.

I have never stopped learning in 20 years and I have documented my process so if I make a change we share that information so we are all on the same page. Until you apply what you know you will never know if your ideas will work and then after you collect the data you can make judgments on what to change or to focus more on or less on...thanks for your insight and time however.

 

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Post some videos to prove the point hitter cause lenski has and i see waht he is saying. i do not see waht you are saying. lenski is right for now.

 

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Facts, not VIDEOS PROVE A POINT! Show me results. Read boulders dad post. If these work so well give me some results from students that you teach !
Besides your view point is very obvious one sided from your posts. .