Pitching and Pitchers Discussion How do you teach pitchers to hit spots?
Ive never heard of this. Learn something new every day!
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Try working on the releae point for high and low pitches instead of altering the stride, just a suggestion.
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I disagree with stepping left or right of the power line. With proper mechanics it is rather easy to stay right on the power line and hit all of the spots. The adjustment is easy at the release point if she is in the proper position. Stepping left and right of the line is no way to be consistant. How much left, and how much right? Just a little too much and the pitch does not go where it should. Stay on the line and learn the proper release and the consistancy will surprise you.
IMHO
IMHO
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Where are the release points for inside and outside pitches?
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Wave,
Moving the foot to the left or the right is a matter of an inch or 2 at the most. 1 inch at the power line equates to about 6 inches at the plate by the time that the ball gets there. Granted there are coaches who teach step way out and come across the body for the curve or step way out and angle back in for the screw ball. Most of those pitches are illegal. (Outside the lines of the plate) I would never recommend that to a pitcher.
You do want to appear as consistent as possible in your delivery. That includes where you land and how you move the body during the pitch. One inch isnt going to be that much difference in appearance to a hitter. The way you become consistent with it is to watch where your plant foot lands in the dirt and keep trying to hit that same spot every time.
The last thing to remember is it will be different for every pitcher. Where little Suzy has to land and where Little Janie has to land to deliver the same pitch to the same spot may be a little different dependent on size and shape and strength of the pitchers body. One mold does not fit all.
Elliott.
Moving the foot to the left or the right is a matter of an inch or 2 at the most. 1 inch at the power line equates to about 6 inches at the plate by the time that the ball gets there. Granted there are coaches who teach step way out and come across the body for the curve or step way out and angle back in for the screw ball. Most of those pitches are illegal. (Outside the lines of the plate) I would never recommend that to a pitcher.
You do want to appear as consistent as possible in your delivery. That includes where you land and how you move the body during the pitch. One inch isnt going to be that much difference in appearance to a hitter. The way you become consistent with it is to watch where your plant foot lands in the dirt and keep trying to hit that same spot every time.
The last thing to remember is it will be different for every pitcher. Where little Suzy has to land and where Little Janie has to land to deliver the same pitch to the same spot may be a little different dependent on size and shape and strength of the pitchers body. One mold does not fit all.
Elliott.
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Elliot I just got the Right View Pro updates which allows you to see, lets say Jennie Finch throwing a rise, drop, peel etc and you can sequence it so you can see where her release points are on four different screens at the same time and where her feet are in the delivery of the pitch...I know nothing about pitching however we use RVP as a tool to teach our hitters what to look for from the pitchers as to how they do it.
Remember when you were here I showed you the pictures of Crystl pitching to show you what she looks for when hitting as to the pitchers tells, grip, release points, stance?
We will show this at the clinic and have Jennie explain it so the hitters have a better idea what to look for...all the USA pitchers are in the RVP system.
This might help explain how to get the pitchers to hit their spots when you see what the best in the world do when pitching...Warning: again and as a disclaimer, I know nothing about pitching mechanics and I am not offering any advice on how to do it, just that RVP offers some insight to YOUR way to help explain it possibly.
I hope you can make it to the clinic and help us out as we appreciate your insight.
Remember when you were here I showed you the pictures of Crystl pitching to show you what she looks for when hitting as to the pitchers tells, grip, release points, stance?
We will show this at the clinic and have Jennie explain it so the hitters have a better idea what to look for...all the USA pitchers are in the RVP system.
This might help explain how to get the pitchers to hit their spots when you see what the best in the world do when pitching...Warning: again and as a disclaimer, I know nothing about pitching mechanics and I am not offering any advice on how to do it, just that RVP offers some insight to YOUR way to help explain it possibly.
I hope you can make it to the clinic and help us out as we appreciate your insight.
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How do you teach pitchers to hit spots? You start out by teaching them to stride to the target. The power line is nothing more than an imaginary line from the pitching plate to the target, hence the power line can move. Some pitching coaches will mark off multiple power lines for middle, inside, and outside pitches. Once the pitcher can hit the corners, then work on low, mid, high. This is done by changing the release point. The stride should not change for the type of pitch thrown. In other words, your fastball stride remains the same regardless of whether the target is low or high. Of course, you can have different strides for different pitches. Drop balls tend to a have shorter stride than a fastball stride.
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I don't know if you have discussed this, but it is my opinion that you don't change the position of your feet to hit your spots.
A drill that I use, is to have the pitcher look at the target and then shut her eyes and pitch.
A drill that I use, is to have the pitcher look at the target and then shut her eyes and pitch.
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New,
I too have girls pitch with their eyes closed but not for that reason. You cannot hit your spots with the eyes closed and be consistent. I have them pitch with their eyes closed to develop 2 things. And this only applies to new pitchers.
1. A sense of balance. The brain will automatically find the body's balance point with the eyes closed. Kind of like dropping a cat upside down. They always land on their feet. Same analogy with a human. With the eyes closed they will find their balance point. Always want to be in a balanced position at release of the ball.
2. Mental imagery. I often tell them to see in the minds eye them throwing the perfect pitch. Imagine throwing a strike. To the perfect spot. With the correct spin. More often than not if they take the time to do this with the eyes closed. They will throw a strike. Then I tell them. Now keep the eyes open and see yourself throw the perfect pitch. My experience with this is that they will land in a balance position better after the drill than before.
The power line is the pitchers best friend and teacher. My pitchers "Read the dirt" They know what to look for based on cleat marks and drag marks in the dirt. If its not the way I teach them then they know something is wrong with the lower mechanics if their motion. They also know if they are consistent with their step to their spot in the dirt and the mechanics are correct then they will hit their spot. EVERY TIME.
As they get older (14U and above) then they don't need it any longer. It is ingrained and they know where there foot is supposed to land. I still make them use it in practice regardless of age level.
Elliott.
I too have girls pitch with their eyes closed but not for that reason. You cannot hit your spots with the eyes closed and be consistent. I have them pitch with their eyes closed to develop 2 things. And this only applies to new pitchers.
1. A sense of balance. The brain will automatically find the body's balance point with the eyes closed. Kind of like dropping a cat upside down. They always land on their feet. Same analogy with a human. With the eyes closed they will find their balance point. Always want to be in a balanced position at release of the ball.
2. Mental imagery. I often tell them to see in the minds eye them throwing the perfect pitch. Imagine throwing a strike. To the perfect spot. With the correct spin. More often than not if they take the time to do this with the eyes closed. They will throw a strike. Then I tell them. Now keep the eyes open and see yourself throw the perfect pitch. My experience with this is that they will land in a balance position better after the drill than before.
The power line is the pitchers best friend and teacher. My pitchers "Read the dirt" They know what to look for based on cleat marks and drag marks in the dirt. If its not the way I teach them then they know something is wrong with the lower mechanics if their motion. They also know if they are consistent with their step to their spot in the dirt and the mechanics are correct then they will hit their spot. EVERY TIME.
As they get older (14U and above) then they don't need it any longer. It is ingrained and they know where there foot is supposed to land. I still make them use it in practice regardless of age level.
Elliott.
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Chip, aren't you a pitching coach?
I am not a pitching coach, but I do know that, just as in hitting, there are absolutes in pitching. However, stride length, stride distance and stride direction are NOT absolutes for an accomplished pitcher, in my opinion. I think anyone close to fastpitch softball would consider Taryne Mowatt an elite pitcher. She obviously does not use a consistent stride. However, she has developed mechanics that "get it done" for her.
The best pitchers have fine tuned their mechanics to work for them. When a kid is young, drag a straight line in the dirt leading to the target - which probably won't be down the middle. Explain the concept of the "power line" and how the stride, arm circle, etc. all relate to delivering the ball to the target straight down this power line. I guarantee every pitcher at the elite level has developed their own REPEATABLE mechanics to do this - or they wouldn't be elite.
IMO, a qualified pitching coach guides a pitcher by making suggestions for small corrections in mechanics based on the abilities of the pitcher. They are not afraid to try different things to "make it work". Just as with creating good spin on the ball, different pitchers use different grips to make it work.
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Sammy
It seems to me like Chip is asking a very valid question. He did not say that the method was incorrect. He's seems to be simply asking the question to determine whether Newtson's pitching opinion is to use the hips or the arm swing to determine pitch location because Newtson's posted opinion is vague.
Also, I do not think it's fair to take it upon yourself to make it sound like Chip's pitching methodology is all about absolutes because I can tell you from first hand experience that it is just not the case. I'll give you an example:
My older daughter's pitching coach is Chip. My daughter's stride actually crosses the power line a bit so she has to slightly close her hips and come across her body. In other words, she's a RHP. When she pitches, she steps slightly towards a right hand hitter, then closes her hips slightly to throw a strike. Now....your post would assume that Chip would not stand for that because you assume he's a coach of absolutes. Nope! He studied her mechanics closely, came to the conclusion that she was not hurting herself in any way pitching like that, and let her continue. I actually questioned him about her style and the answer he gave me was "Hey, as long as she remains accurate throwing like that, she's actually concealing the ball a bit longer so it reduces the hitter's reaction time. Her armswing is fine and she has a good finish. I'd let her go with it. She's throwing good."
It seems, based on your own post, that Chip is indeed an accomplished pitching coach due to the fact that Chip let my daughter do her thing based on her ability, as well as some of his other students.
The majority of people on this forum do not have elite pitchers, they have dd's that need basic instruction. Directional striding to hit spots is a safe, solid, tried, and true method of coaching.
Len
It seems to me like Chip is asking a very valid question. He did not say that the method was incorrect. He's seems to be simply asking the question to determine whether Newtson's pitching opinion is to use the hips or the arm swing to determine pitch location because Newtson's posted opinion is vague.
Also, I do not think it's fair to take it upon yourself to make it sound like Chip's pitching methodology is all about absolutes because I can tell you from first hand experience that it is just not the case. I'll give you an example:
My older daughter's pitching coach is Chip. My daughter's stride actually crosses the power line a bit so she has to slightly close her hips and come across her body. In other words, she's a RHP. When she pitches, she steps slightly towards a right hand hitter, then closes her hips slightly to throw a strike. Now....your post would assume that Chip would not stand for that because you assume he's a coach of absolutes. Nope! He studied her mechanics closely, came to the conclusion that she was not hurting herself in any way pitching like that, and let her continue. I actually questioned him about her style and the answer he gave me was "Hey, as long as she remains accurate throwing like that, she's actually concealing the ball a bit longer so it reduces the hitter's reaction time. Her armswing is fine and she has a good finish. I'd let her go with it. She's throwing good."
It seems, based on your own post, that Chip is indeed an accomplished pitching coach due to the fact that Chip let my daughter do her thing based on her ability, as well as some of his other students.
The majority of people on this forum do not have elite pitchers, they have dd's that need basic instruction. Directional striding to hit spots is a safe, solid, tried, and true method of coaching.
Len
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Wow!!! Looks like Lenski called you out Sammy!
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hchamcocg
I did not call anybody out. I'm simply pointing out that the thread is about how to teach a pitcher to hit spots, and Sammy went on a tangent about what elite pitchers do. If a pitcher cannot hit spots yet then they are not an elite pitcher. Chip offered an opinion of basic instruction in one post, then inquired about hip position in another post after someone offered a different opinion. Then came Sammy's post. It seems that Sammy knows that Chip is a pitching instructor based on the beginning of his post, then Sammy admits that he is not a pitching coach but explains how the elite pitcher gets it done, then seems to question Chip's qualifications at the end of the post. My post does nothing more than correct the fallacies in Sammy's post concerning Chip, and my opinion is based on concrete evidence because I use him as a pitching instructor. Now, re-read the posts and decide who is calling out whom....
Len
I did not call anybody out. I'm simply pointing out that the thread is about how to teach a pitcher to hit spots, and Sammy went on a tangent about what elite pitchers do. If a pitcher cannot hit spots yet then they are not an elite pitcher. Chip offered an opinion of basic instruction in one post, then inquired about hip position in another post after someone offered a different opinion. Then came Sammy's post. It seems that Sammy knows that Chip is a pitching instructor based on the beginning of his post, then Sammy admits that he is not a pitching coach but explains how the elite pitcher gets it done, then seems to question Chip's qualifications at the end of the post. My post does nothing more than correct the fallacies in Sammy's post concerning Chip, and my opinion is based on concrete evidence because I use him as a pitching instructor. Now, re-read the posts and decide who is calling out whom....
Len
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Sorry, not gonna bite on that one. I don't think referencing my observations of what an elite pitcher does is going off subject ("off on a tangent"). Quite the contrary. By knowing what the "best of the best" do, a kid and her parents can be better prepared in their understanding of what it takes to move to the next level. Off subject? You decide...
As far as explaining the "HOW", I intentionally made no attempt at it, as referenced by my disclaimer of not being a pitching coach. But not being a professional, in any field for that matter, certainly should not preclude one from taking a keen interest and learning. Otherwise, how would a parent have any idea how qualified a pitching or hitting coach is, or if their daughter was even progressing?
Please re-read my last paragraph:
"IMO, a qualified pitching coach guides a pitcher by making suggestions for small corrections in mechanics based on the abilities of the pitcher. They are not afraid to try different things to "make it work". Just as with creating good spin on the ball, different pitchers use different grips to make it work."
As far as me stating anyones qualifications, or "fallicies" of teaching, I fail to see anywhere in my post where I said anything negative. From previous posts, I merely assumed (correctly) that Chip is indeed a pitching coach.
Please, it's completely unfair to read something into a post that isn't there.
As far as explaining the "HOW", I intentionally made no attempt at it, as referenced by my disclaimer of not being a pitching coach. But not being a professional, in any field for that matter, certainly should not preclude one from taking a keen interest and learning. Otherwise, how would a parent have any idea how qualified a pitching or hitting coach is, or if their daughter was even progressing?
Please re-read my last paragraph:
"IMO, a qualified pitching coach guides a pitcher by making suggestions for small corrections in mechanics based on the abilities of the pitcher. They are not afraid to try different things to "make it work". Just as with creating good spin on the ball, different pitchers use different grips to make it work."
As far as me stating anyones qualifications, or "fallicies" of teaching, I fail to see anywhere in my post where I said anything negative. From previous posts, I merely assumed (correctly) that Chip is indeed a pitching coach.
Please, it's completely unfair to read something into a post that isn't there.
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That's not how your post starts. Your post starts by asking the question "Chip, aren't you a pitching coach?"
At this point your post seems directed straight at Chip. Then you go on to tell "Chip" about things that are absolutes and things that are not absolutes concerning pitching. Then you proceed to tell "Chip" what the best pitchers do and how they develop their own mechanics to suit them. Then finally you tell "Chip" what qualified pitching coaches do based on the abilities of the pitcher.
Now, if I am incorrect about your post being directed straight at Chip, then why the first sentence?
Len
At this point your post seems directed straight at Chip. Then you go on to tell "Chip" about things that are absolutes and things that are not absolutes concerning pitching. Then you proceed to tell "Chip" what the best pitchers do and how they develop their own mechanics to suit them. Then finally you tell "Chip" what qualified pitching coaches do based on the abilities of the pitcher.
Now, if I am incorrect about your post being directed straight at Chip, then why the first sentence?
Len
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Sammy
I asked a question because I am curious, nothing more. I am not challenging anyone’s knowledge. I feel certain that any pitcher who pitched her team to an NCAA div 1 World Series championship had developed “get it done” mechanics. The reality is that some elite pitchers have less than textbook mechanics and their success is attributed to their ability to find out what works for them personally.
Muscle memory is key to consistency and practice does make permanent, so correct fundamental training is essential for most players, there are a few blessed with so much talent that can find a way that works for them.
I asked a question because I am curious, nothing more. I am not challenging anyone’s knowledge. I feel certain that any pitcher who pitched her team to an NCAA div 1 World Series championship had developed “get it done” mechanics. The reality is that some elite pitchers have less than textbook mechanics and their success is attributed to their ability to find out what works for them personally.
Muscle memory is key to consistency and practice does make permanent, so correct fundamental training is essential for most players, there are a few blessed with so much talent that can find a way that works for them.
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Again, Len -
Please, it's completely unfair to read something into a post that isn't there.
I simply cannot make it any clearer than that. But choose to read into it what you want. As Forrest once said, "And that's about all I have to say about that."
Please, it's completely unfair to read something into a post that isn't there.
I simply cannot make it any clearer than that. But choose to read into it what you want. As Forrest once said, "And that's about all I have to say about that."
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Based on a 1996 Study of the Olympic pitchers in Atlanta to ideal hip angle on any pitch is 45 degrees to 52 degrees. That is for any pitch. Inside, Outside, Rise, Drop. The hips should always land in that position.
Direction in or out is based on the foot landing to the inside or outside of the power line. Not drastic. Just slightly. Remember 1 inch left or right = 6 to 8 inches at the plate dependent on spin /rotation of the ball. The more spin the tighter the rotation the more the ball moves. It is possible that you would not have to come off the power line IF you were strong enough in the hands to spin the ball with enough velocity to make it move inside or out.
Most females cannot do that. Men on the other hand can.
Elliott.
Direction in or out is based on the foot landing to the inside or outside of the power line. Not drastic. Just slightly. Remember 1 inch left or right = 6 to 8 inches at the plate dependent on spin /rotation of the ball. The more spin the tighter the rotation the more the ball moves. It is possible that you would not have to come off the power line IF you were strong enough in the hands to spin the ball with enough velocity to make it move inside or out.
Most females cannot do that. Men on the other hand can.
Elliott.
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