How's that working for you???

[CARDS]

50+ pitches for a non pitcher as the post states is A LOT. My guess would be that is the coach/team/player in this post were a pitcher then it would not be a discussion to start with.

Honestly, this is not uncommon for many high school teams especially at the JV, Freshman or Middle school level.
Over the past 10 years the decline in the sport has resulted in a minimum 50% of the school pitchers in our area are "not" your typical pitcher that people think of. Most hardly practice outside of team practices, many do not play over the summer, same with catching and definitely no private instruction. Moving from 40 to 43 has also had an impact especially with the difference between top and bottom programs.
The ladies pitching style or results is Loooong Innings and high scoring games. The game in a lot of areas is more of a slow pitch with a higher arch pitch or a sling shot type of delivery. (I have seen stronger 10U travel teams pitching wise than the average JV, Freshman or middle school programs in our area). So 50 pitches is like 50 soft toss in most cases.
At these lower levels of school ball (and even some varsity levels) anything that is close enough to hit is generally a strike and there are still a ton of walks, HBP per game and runs.
With that said when stronger teams face these weaker teams some have good sportsman ship and work out flip innings or try to not have the games last 3 hours. Umpires earn their money in these contest as most extend past 2 hours some end when it gets dark. Its not just SW Ohio, Last year in Kansas the highest scoring varsity softball game took place with 50 and 46 runs scored. There has even been some small college teams with huge lopsided scores or 20+ runs by both teams.

 

[SonicMojo]

Over the past 10 years the decline in the sport

Decline???

 

[CARDS]

Decline???

Softball is in a decline in our area from 10 years ago.
Most communities are struggling to form recreational leagues/teams, A lot of the schools are struggling with numbers at the HS level resulting in dropping of Freshman and JV programs even GMC and ECC historically softball conference's.
Our area had a ton of summer ball options now, most of these fields are no longer in use. The Colerain area had 5 or 6 teams in each age division across the township. Currently its a struggle to field one age specific teams with many now just blended ages.
10 years ago there were a dozen fall ball options now there is only a couple.
Batting cages, winter training facilities have also taken a hit as several on the west side have closed that were primarily softball. Private instruction was also impacted with the closing of several facilities, Now there are private instructor options available but nothing close to the dozen or so coaches to chose from with pitching, hitting, catching coaches back then. We also had two HS winter leagues. Now I think Sinclair college is the only winter HS play and that is a tournament or two. As far as travel10 years ago, there were a couple dozen teams at the various age ranges /organizations to chose form in the 275 belt that were strong and over half of these teams played a strong national schedule now not so much.

 

[IRdad09]

For discussion will add
That there are many times pitchers who are just starting out, learning to be pitchers, throw over 50 pitches. That and they are completely new to the sport of softball. Even a beginner's workout can be 50 plus pitches. Watching rec ball see little kids throwing well over 50 pitches in full games. Sometimes in one inning. ( doesn't mean it's right, but there is a perspective that 50 is not a lot, especially at high school level)

In this case the op commented this is a well-seasoned player who was put in the circle. So not new to softball. Without knowing the player can only take the detail that the coach had put her in to pitch. Maybe she wanted to. Maybe she had previous pitching experience before she became an outfielder. But there were no details just that the coach thought to put her in to pitch. Didn't say her arm is sore, take me out. It said she thought perhaps she could help her team better if she played a different position.

There were also no other details about the team being talked about and what other 'potential' pitchers were on their roster.
(perhaps I missed those details somewhere) this is why I asked further questions like... >>do you just put someone in who doesn't know how to pitch and see if they can try?

In the big picture of softball 50 pitches is not a lot. As i previously commented it's a lot for one inning.

For the most part the op is just complaining about another coach and how they are coaching their team without offering a solution.

We will agree to disagree. For a pitcher it is not a lot, agreed. For a non-pitcher who body is not used to the mechanics, it is a lot, therefore risking injury.

 

[SbSpirit]

Honestly, this is not uncommon for many high school teams especially at the JV, Freshman or Middle school level.
Over the past 10 years the decline in the sport has resulted in a minimum 50% of the school pitchers in our area are "not" your typical pitcher that people think of. Most hardly practice outside of team practices, many do not play over the summer, same with catching and definitely no private instruction. Moving from 40 to 43 has also had an impact especially with the difference between top and bottom programs.
The ladies pitching style or results is Loooong Innings and high scoring games. The game in a lot of areas is more of a slow pitch with a higher arch pitch or a sling shot type of delivery. (I have seen stronger 10U travel teams pitching wise than the average JV, Freshman or middle school programs in our area). So 50 pitches is like 50 soft toss in most cases.
At these lower levels of school ball (and even some varsity levels) anything that is close enough to hit is generally a strike and there are still a ton of walks, HBP per game and runs.

With that said when stronger teams face these weaker teams some have good sportsman ship and work out flip innings or try to not have the games last 3 hours.

Solutions!

Umpires earn their money in these contest as most extend past 2 hours some end when it gets dark.

Yes they do!

Perhaps implementing a run rule per inning needs to be applied.
Along with the mercy rules that are already applied in some venues.

 

[CARDS]

Solutions!



Yes they do!

Perhaps implementing a run rule per inning needs to be applied.
Along with the mercy rules that are already applied in some venues.

There needs to be some type of rule changes especially at JV and middle school levels to try to keep teams together and ladies in the game.

Baseball and Softball are the hardest sports for players to learn due to the amount of skill sets needed to play and the amount of thinking involved. It is also more expensive than many other popular girls HS sport (EX: Volleyball, Basketball, Soccer).

While Softball has not seen the fate of HS girls tennis or golf where schools are dropping the sports, (I was told Girls/Boys Bowling is also struggling as many schools are struggling with numbers and a lot of areas/schools are losing their local bowling allies). It does not look good for the future of softball when the big schools are dropping freshman softball teams and some JV . The smaller schools are dropping JV programs. Last year several varsity programs could not finish the season in the CMAC, SWOC,MVC. In my area just 10 years ago Colerain had Freshman, JV ,Varsity programs in the GMC. This year only Varsity Sycamore also dropped JV this year. I am expecting a couple others in the GMC to be joining Colerain and Sycamore next year (Like what happened in the ECC where over the last 4 years half the league did not field JV teams).

 

[Stedman00]

a legit question, how much is lack of numbers in school programs due to players not playing for their various schools. Regardless of the reasons, simply saying "Nope, not playing for my school." Because there are travel teams EVERYWHERE around the greater Cincy area. all ages and skill level.

Just in my little circle i know of several very high level players that simply will not tolerate the coach(s), politics, etc of their school program, and simply play travel only.

 

[daboss]

There needs to be some type of rule changes especially at JV and middle school levels to try to keep teams together and ladies in the game.

Baseball and Softball are the hardest sports for players to learn due to the amount of skill sets needed to play and the amount of thinking involved. It is also more expensive than many other popular girls HS sport (EX: Volleyball, Basketball, Soccer).

While Softball has not seen the fate of HS girls tennis or golf where schools are dropping the sports, (I was told Girls/Boys Bowling is also struggling as many schools are struggling with numbers and a lot of areas/schools are losing their local bowling allies). It does not look good for the future of softball when the big schools are dropping freshman softball teams and some JV . The smaller schools are dropping JV programs. Last year several varsity programs could not finish the season in the CMAC, SWOC,MVC. In my area just 10 years ago Colerain had Freshman, JV ,Varsity programs in the GMC. This year only Varsity Sycamore also dropped JV this year. I am expecting a couple others in the GMC to be joining Colerain and Sycamore next year (Like what happened in the ECC where over the last 4 years half the league did not field JV teams).

I sat here this morning and have tried 3 times to write something on the subject of how to boost interest in fastpitch. The bottom line is; I do not have an answer.

Girls, kids in general, seem to react to the enthusiasm of their parents and/or influential adults. Even with an enthusiastic administration (mentors, coaches, and league supporters) the girls will not respond unless they sense that their parents would be excited about them participating. They plant the seed and the kids react. Winning helps breed the enthusiasm in adults for a variety of reasons. This in turn promotes involvement. I'm not saying it's right, it simply seems to work that way. Once the adults become negative of the experience the girls lose interest. "My daughter is not being treated fairly" or "the program sucks" becomes an innocent discussion in the car, in the house, or at adult social functions and the participation doesn't seem "fun" anymore. Now factor in those parents that really never bought into the hype, they're too busy with their own agenda, and eventually the luster is lost. I could go on and on but I think you see my point.

A strong program with a strong support group will promote the game. Look what happened in Greenville years ago. A new enthusiastic head coach formed a support group of parents that cultivated a program for fastpitch and elevated the girls, and the school program, to stardom locally------and in the State.... Even the GWOC benefited from it.

At the present time, in our region, the game involvement has turn downward. That is reflected nationally because youth sports in general are taking a huge hit in society.

I relate the sport to what really matters in the real world and by association our problem is a change of mindset in society. We can change that mindset. All we need is some enthusiastic parents to support the effort and volunteer.

I coined a word years ago that classifies a lot of people I'deal with. I call them "Fizesyou" people. You know them. "If I was you I'd do it this way" or "If I was you I'd do it that way". All full of expert advice but never done it or will ever do it.

Don't be a Fizesyou.......

 

[Stedman00]

i agree wholeheartedly that Greenville has great community support. Witnessed first hand with ~150 fans in attendence to watch a random league game versus Xenia last season. Great community support.

AND Greenville has solid support in rec ball and running some travel tourneys for younger ages.

AND having several parents who's daughters play on Greenville squad, there does not seem to be any politic drama with playing time, political force as to who's playing where, maniacal or inept coaching, no rumors (or verified) stat tampering, etc. All leading to solid program involvement and growth.

 

[CARDS]

a legit question, how much is lack of numbers in school programs due to players not playing for their various schools. Regardless of the reasons, simply saying "Nope, not playing for my school." Because there are travel teams EVERYWHERE around the greater Cincy area. all ages and skill level.

Just in my little circle i know of several very high level players that simply will not tolerate the coach(s), politics, etc of their school program, and simply play travel only.

That is a contributing factor at some schools. At the schools I have coached at, year around Basketball, and Soccer pulled good ladies from softball as their priority was the club sport. Volleyball and Cheer are also now heavy year around activities reducing even more ladies that have the athleticism to be multi sport athletes but chose to focus on one.

 

[CARDS]

i agree wholeheartedly that Greenville has great community support. Witnessed first hand with ~150 fans in attendence to watch a random league game versus Xenia last season. Great community support.

AND Greenville has solid support in rec ball and running some travel tourneys for younger ages.

AND having several parents who's daughters play on Greenville squad, there does not seem to be any politic drama with playing time, political force as to who's playing where, maniacal or inept coaching, no rumors (or verified) stat tampering, etc. All leading to solid program involvement and growth.

Cincinnati Hills League Parents turn out to support their ladies in all activities and they have some recreational teams it just has not turned out with good softball.
Great facilities at Indian Hill but skill is lacking... keep in mind this is varsity level play... 7 50+ pitch innings. Man I feel for the catchers...

 

[CARDS]

I sat here this morning and have tried 3 times to write something on the subject of how to boost interest in fastpitch. The bottom line is; I do not have an answer.

Girls, kids in general, seem to react to the enthusiasm of their parents and/or influential adults. Even with an enthusiastic administration (mentors, coaches, and league supporters) the girls will not respond unless they sense that their parents would be excited about them participating. They plant the seed and the kids react. Winning helps breed the enthusiasm in adults for a variety of reasons. This in turn promotes involvement. I'm not saying it's right, it simply seems to work that way. Once the adults become negative of the experience the girls lose interest. "My daughter is not being treated fairly" or "the program sucks" becomes an innocent discussion in the car, in the house, or at adult social functions and the participation doesn't seem "fun" anymore. Now factor in those parents that really never bought into the hype, they're too busy with their own agenda, and eventually the luster is lost. I could go on and on but I think you see my point.

A strong program with a strong support group will promote the game. Look what happened in Greenville years ago. A new enthusiastic head coach formed a support group of parents that cultivated a program for fastpitch and elevated the girls, and the school program, to stardom locally------and in the State.... Even the GWOC benefited from it.

At the present time, in our region, the game involvement has turn downward. That is reflected nationally because youth sports in general are taking a huge hit in society.

I relate the sport to what really matters in the real world and by association our problem is a change of mindset in society. We can change that mindset. All we need is some enthusiastic parents to support the effort and volunteer.

I coined a word years ago that classifies a lot of people I'deal with. I call them "Fizesyou" people. You know them. "If I was you I'd do it this way" or "If I was you I'd do it that way". All full of expert advice but never done it or will ever do it.

Don't be a Fizesyou.......

The demographics of a Greenville also help with having a successful program, it also shows in their ODE report card.
Greenville reminds me a lot like Ross where all the High school sports have a huge community focus supported by the community.
MRAA as young as 5 playing the game looking forward to the day they play Ramball.

 

[SbSpirit]

Cincinnati Hills League Parents turn out to support their ladies in all activities and they have some recreational teams it just has not turned out with good softball.
Great facilities at Indian Hill but skill is lacking... keep in mind this is varsity level play... 7 50+ pitch innings. Man I feel for the catchers...

Video is worth a thousand words!
Nice to see good coverage at all levels of softball!

 

[CARDS]

Video is worth a thousand words!
Nice to see good coverage at all levels of softball!

One thing SW Ohio has on most of the state is good league websites and IRCC streamed/televised games in most all the conferences.

 

[Stedman00]

love the effort of the girls and amazing coverage. BUT skill level I saw in the video is below par for many JV programs. Shocking to say the least.


AGAIN, not blaming the girls or poo pooing their efforts, just amazed that this passes for Varsity level competition in CHL conference. And possibly many other conferences. Even at the lowest level, I don't believe I ever saw this at JV or varsity level for any GMC or GWOC, conference game.

 

[CARDS]

love the effort of the girls and amazing coverage. BUT skill level I saw in the video is below par for many JV programs. Shocking to say the least.


AGAIN, not blaming the girls or poo pooing their efforts, just amazed that this passes for Varsity level competition in CHL conference. And possibly many other conferences. Even at the lowest level, I don't believe I ever saw this at JV or varsity level for any GMC or GWOC, conference game.

This level of varsity play is found regularly in the CMAC, MVC, CHL, SWOC (with Mt Healthy and NW). GMC,ECC,GWOC are softball conferences and generally much larger schools than these other leagues schools with bigger pool of ladies. Most of the schools like in the video do not have a JV team and take 15-18 players for varsity. The bottom half of the GMC JV programs are stronger than most of these varsity programs but well under the top of the GMC JV programs where they have decent pitching. (WEST and OH both have a couple at JV that will be solid next year at varsity).

I have seen a decline though even in the ECC/GMC in "overall pitching" at the varsity level. 10 years ago most GMC teams had 2 ladies at each level of play (4-6) that could throw strikes and have some pop. Now not so much, the bottom of the GMC is lucky to have one lady at varsity that can get it consistently over the plate same with the ECC bottom and most of the ECC does not have JV so you see a lot of underclass FR/SO in the circle. Hamilton and Colerain are pitching freshman that gets the ball over the plate with a little pop so they should only get better.

 

[yocoach]

So... the question is do you attribute that to watered down TB teams, TB teams stealing mediocre players to make their rosters, parent rec coaches that aren't interested in learning anything, just filling a spot and doing the best they can or all of the above? IMO from what I've seen over the past decade, it's all of the above.

 

[CARDS]

So... the question is do you attribute that to watered down TB teams, TB teams stealing mediocre players to make their rosters, parent rec coaches that aren't interested in learning anything, just filling a spot and doing the best they can or all of the above? IMO from what I've seen over the past decade, it's all of the above.

Honestly in the bulk of the public schools in our area most families have no idea what travel softball ball is an no real interest in it.
I coached at three of the bigger DI-DII schools and the bulk of the players only played for their school and local recreational teams. (Over the past 5 years most did not even play for their local recreational teams at the lower levels of play and only a handful at the varsity level.
The REDS has done a decent job of offering free or low cost options for SW Ohio ladies in the summer that has benefited some but overall the gap is still huge and not a lot take advantage of it even though it is encouraged by about 25 area HS coaches.

 

[daboss]

Honestly in the bulk of the public schools in our area most families have no idea what travel softball ball is an no real interest in it.
I coached at three of the bigger DI-DII schools and the bulk of the players only played for their school and local recreational teams. (Over the past 5 years most did not even play for their local recreational teams at the lower levels of play and only a handful at the varsity level.
The REDS has done a decent job of offering free or low cost options for SW Ohio ladies in the summer that has benefited some but overall the gap is still huge and not a lot take advantage of it even though it is encouraged by about 25 area HS coaches.

I'm within your region it appears and agree wholeheartedly. Perhaps this comes to a surprise to fastpitch enthusiasts but many families are oblivious to travel ball. In my immediate area our community participates in a county-run league for girls starting at the age of 11yrs old I believe. This sprouted from not being able to field enough teams from our community, much like the surrounding communities so an energetic employee at the County Rec begged the administration to get proactive, something they were reluctant to do.

Even then, the parents complained because they have to travel out of town to play at other parks. In the past I was aware of some kids not getting to play all the games throughout the season because the parents won't take them anywhere else but the local park or the school ball fields. Many athletes never get to "be all they can be" due to circumstances that are none of our business. I used to sub as a coach for the older girls (up to 15 yrs old) and owned a vehicle that I could carry up to 8 with me. I literally would drive around and pick these kids up and take them home afterwards. The County Rec program ends at 15. The girls have no league to play in beyond that age so school ball in the spring is it for them. Our village only has enough girls to field 2 teams in the 2 age divisions. Some don't have that many girls playing.

This may sound barbaric but I assure you it is more the normal than the exception.

Not far from me, in a neighboring county, the girls fastpitch program is 10-16 yrs old, all playing together, with and against each other. 10 yr. old pitchers throwing to sophomores in high school!!! The entire village seems to come to the games. It looks like upwards of 300-400 people attend every game, normally played in the evenings.

There's always those girls that don't get to show their worth. Whether it's due to religion or circumstance, their lives don't include some of the things many of us find as normal opportunity. I stressed over trying to give these kids a chance and was venting one day when I had an old coach advise me to let it go. He said "You can't save them all no matter how hard you try" and that was the only thing that helped me let go. Somehow it was comforting to know others have tried and had to come to grips with the same reality-------but it still hurts.........

 

[DanMaz]

kids too worried about Tik tOk, who liked my posts, who didnt like my posts, and spend too much time on other social media brain washing platforms. Lazy comes to mind.... some are in a strange place mentally like the older generations owe them something... not a lot of self motivated youths like i remember in the old days. no phones. no internet, no social media drama.... good memories. this has a lot to do with why the sport and sports in general are not like they used to be.