Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Knee issues in pitcher

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Anyone ever had or heard of anyone having something called fat pad impingement or Hoffa's Disease? My DD has this and it is really giving us fits. It's happened because she also had "jumper's knee" and this is now a result of that injury! Just looking to see if anyone has ever had to deal with this and if so, how you did it? We are trying to get her better. She may miss winter ball, she's had to miss several camps. She's a 16u pitcher and this is her push off leg.

Any help would be great. She sees a doc at Max Sports whose been great. She's currently undergoing acupuncture.

 

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Sorry to hear about your dd's problems. My dd is a pitcher at the 12u level, and we have been through a couple rounds of "jumpers knee". She also plays volleyball, which is where the problem began. We went through all the usual treatments without too much success i.e. rest, ice, compression, elevation, and physical therapy. We eventually went to the chiropractor that I see on occasion for my back. He noted that some of her problem was due to a mild case of flat feet that was throwing her knee alignment off. He fitted her for some expensive orthotics (that my insurance picked up thank God!), continued her with ice, specialized exercises, electric stimulation, ultrasound, and all the other "voodoo" that chiropractors use. It worked to a large degree. The only problems she has had is when she "forgets" to wear her orthotics, and "forgets" to do her exercises. We have not had to deal with the other problems that you have mentioned, but I'm fairly certain that any physician will tell you that It won't get better unless she stops the activity that is irritating it i.e. softball, volleyball, or whatever. It sounds from your post like she has had this injury for a while and has been "playing through it". That is a dangerous practice with chronic joint injuries. If these types of injuries are not given the time to heal, they will only get worse, or morph into something much worse. JMO, but this is the off season for softball, who cares about winter or fall ball, or even camps for that matter. Get your dd the treatment she needs to get in shape for the regular season, if that is even still within reach. As much as we all love this sport, it is not even close to being worth an injury that will cause someone pain and discomfort for the rest of their lives. I wish you and your dd all the best and hope for a speedy and complete recovery!

 

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We don't have problems with that, but my dd has osgoodschlaters disease in her knees, it is where the head of the tibia bone is being pulled by the tight muscles and tendons that are attached to it. she has lots of trouble when she goes through growth spurts. Anyway, she will have it for as long as she grows and the doctors have done Physical therapy, she also has orthotics and knee braces to wear along with strengthening exercises. We take her to an orthopedic doctor and she does sport specific training. If you can find something like this in your area, it is a big help. Right now she is also having problems with her push off leg.

 

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Is it on her pivot or stride leg or both?

 

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Shortly after our pitching DD had been diagnosed with early osgoodschlaters disease, she choose to hang up her collegiate softball career. There were other, probably bigger, reasons for her choice, but I'm sure the osgoodschlaters was a part of the mix.

 

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Sorry to hear about your dd's problems. My dd is a pitcher at the 12u level, and we have been through a couple rounds of "jumpers knee". She also plays volleyball, which is where the problem began.

Thankfully her jumper's knee is better. It's from all of that that we are not dealing with this fat pad thing. I'm sure learning a lot about anatomy! She quit volleyball and hasn't done anything for awhile as far as softball. If she can't do winter ball no biggie. We just want her to get better all around, not just for softball.

Know that "jumper's knee" is curable, it took a long time though. A lot of PT and other wonderful things!

Good luck to your DD. 12 is awfully young to start having knee issues, but now that I think about it, ours started at 13.

 

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We don't have problems with that, but my dd has osgoodschlaters disease in her knees, it is where the head of the tibia bone is being pulled by the tight muscles and tendons that are attached to it.

I had never even heard of osgoodschlaters disease. Maybe one of us could discover a miraculous fix for these diseases and then we could have something good named after us!!

I was at the OSU tourny yesterday and several of the OSU players had surgery over the summer on one part of their body or another!

 

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Anyone ever had or heard of anyone having something called fat pad impingement or Hoffa's Disease? My DD has this and it is really giving us fits. It's happened because she also had "jumper's knee" and this is now a result of that injury! Just looking to see if anyone has ever had to deal with this and if so, how you did it? We are trying to get her better. She may miss winter ball, she's had to miss several camps. She's a 16u pitcher and this is her push off leg.

Any help would be great. She sees a doc at Max Sports whose been great. She's currently undergoing acupuncture.

DD is currently a senior pitcher in college. My family has been going to the Max crew even before they split from OSU several years ago. Dr. Lombardo & Dr. Diorrio have been my DD's primary docs since she started sports as a little squirt. Joe & the gang in PT are also great. We are regular customers - we should own stock in the place by now!

She's in excellent hands - we've ALWAYS followed Dr. Lombardo's advice to the letter, and things always went superb. Hope your DD's recovery is swift!

 

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We are seeing way to many injuries in female athletes (not just softball) at all levels.

These injuries seem to be concentrated in the knees/ankles and elbows/shoulders of players across the board. The leg injuries seem especially concentrated in athletes playing multiple sports. A second type of impact injury resulting from being struck by a ball, typically a batted ball is of major concern.

What is anyone doing in the interests of injury prevention? The Doc's maybe good but what can we prevent?

 

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Like automobile accidents, you just cannot prevent ALL of them from happening. There will always be batted ball injuries, cleat injuries, twisted ankles, etc. - just a risk in playing the game. HOWEVER, many (not all) "injuries" could be prevented. Proper training of pitchers can help prevent joint wear and damage. Proper sliding technique, proper throwing technique. NOT throwing flat pitches squarely over the plate!

Injuries are just a fact of life in athletic competition. But like seatbelts/air bags and improved structural integrity in cars has greatly reduced injuries/deaths in car accidents, better training and improved equipment can make a big difference in sports. Wearing a suit of armour is not the answer - common sense and smart training is.

 

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DD is currently a senior pitcher in college. My family has been going to the Max crew even before they split from OSU several years ago. Dr. Lombardo & Dr. Diorrio have been my DD's primary docs since she started sports as a little squirt. Joe & the gang in PT are also great. We are regular customers - we should own stock in the place by now!

She's in excellent hands - we've ALWAYS followed Dr. Lombardo's advice to the letter, and things always went superb. Hope your DD's recovery is swift!

I agree Sammy...she's in excellent hands. She sees Dr. Shaw and actually cried when her PT was finished last year. She visits Joe and Erick regularly when she goes in for an appt. Glad to hear that you've had great care there also.

 

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We are seeing way to many injuries in female athletes (not just softball) at all levels.

These injuries seem to be concentrated in the knees/ankles and elbows/shoulders of players across the board. The leg injuries seem especially concentrated in athletes playing multiple sports. A second type of impact injury resulting from being struck by a ball, typically a batted ball is of major concern.

What is anyone doing in the interests of injury prevention? The Doc's maybe good but what can we prevent?

I have posted this resource several times however it appears no one is interested in talking about it.

Crystl and I started teaching throwing first at our clinics about 6 years ago because of the arm, shoulder and elbow issues. We also found out the side benefit was teaching the females how to flex the knees when throwing and hitting and that shifting their weight added power to both activities. The female does not want to flex or bend their knees and use mainly their upper body to throw or hit. If we do not see a weight shift in throwing the females usually have poor throwing techniques. We demonstrate this at every clinic and when we ask who taught you how to throw, they point to their dad or a male coach and then the fun begins!

If you have a son and a daughter and a set of stairs the girl will usually make more noise coming down the stairs because they do not flex the knee. The glutes fire the knee on a male and the female must be taught this and the PEP program has been shown to be effective by reducing injuries in females by 41%. If you do not think balance matters try this little simple test....have your daughter jump up in the air and land and usually they will sound like an elephant when they land. Now have them bend at the waist first and then soften the knees next in that order and repeat and emphasize to land on the balls of the feet and you will hear the difference.....we just did this at the clinic in Zanesville. One girl was living proof as she was wearing her ACL brace and knew exactly why she had to be balanced.

The female hips are wider, the spine is more horizontal, there is more angle to the knee termed Q angle and the notch where the ACL passes through is narrower in a female than a male and the hamstrings are under developed in a female verses a male. We went over this at our coaches clinic in detail...when a male coach tells a female to stand taller in the box they DO NOT UNDERSTAND how the female balances or why! Coach Vasko and I talked about this for quite some time and this is not a posture issue it is what it is and it is called balance. We picked out the girls who use balance beams and 2x4's and after stepping into the wall a few times we started to get them to be more balanced and USE THEIR LOWER BODY for the first time and actually get to heel plant!

Funsister is a nurse practitioner and is at a conference on sports injuries and will be back next week. She sent me the agenda and she will have some great information. Jensen Brent at Childrens Hospital Cincinnati has been a great help in understanding how the female body works verses the male and some of our kids train with him and the information is price less!

Go to the below listed site and educate your self and some of the coaches who are training your daughters like males verses females...it is an eye opener!

On a side note we always observe which kids do not tie their shoes prior to hitting or throwing...they just tuck the shoe laces inside the shoe or they are wearing boys style shoes. The female heel is narrow compared to the male and the foot will slide inside the shoes and if the shoes are not tied you could turn the ankle, which could stress the knee, which could pull the ham string which stresses the lower back. If the female has a shoe size larger than a size 8 she is more prone to ACL issues.... read the information and google female ACL injuries

http://www.aclprevent.com/pepprogram.htm

 

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My dd is participating in a study on softball injuries this year. USC is doing a nationwide study on injuries and will be evaluating several criteria's this upcoming school season. Should be interesting. Will post results when complete.

 

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My dd is participating in a study on softball injuries this year. USC is doing a nationwide study on injuries and will be evaluating several criteria's this upcoming school season. Should be interesting. Will post results when complete.

The study that was done was over a three year time frame by the centers for disease control CDC and included 1,400 kids and they were followed by the NCAA. They showed a 41% reduction in ACL injuries by using the PEP program. The primary sports were basketball and scoccer as this is where the ACL injuries seem to have the highest incidence. There is a lot of information out there already that can help reduce injuries today.

 

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Thanks for that site Hitter and I will go check it out. I know once we get her better we plan on taking her to a place in Westerville that teaches athletes how to condition properly and learn about her body and nutrition. It's called LIFT and it's run by Andy Katzenmoyer and his wife Ashleigh who was a pitcher at one time. I have never had any experience with LIFT, but I've heard good things. I need to get DD to think about such things because she's 15 and invincible!

I really appreciate everyone's input and I hope people keep posting on here so I can get more and more information.

I have found some information regarding a new technique in Europe(of course)where they inject alcohol and local anesthetic into the fat pad to reduce the swelling. I'm hoping to be able to contact our Dr. tomorrow to see if he has heard any of this before. My DD is all for surgery, but I've warned her about poking around somewhere if you don't have to do it!

I also saw where you mentioned about the ACL being more prone in girls with larger than size 8 feet. My DD definitely falls into that category with a size 11.