NSA Laser Nation NSA Umpires

[default]

That is no excuse for missing calls that bad. The girls that play play more games in a weekend that the umps ump. The issue is the umpires have to much control with no one to answer to. The UIC is never going to side with a coach over the umpire. If you as a coach stick up for your team when the calls are missed over and over again it just makes things worse. On the game that George was referring to we were losing bad. and there was a fly ball hit to deep center field that our girl caught. The girl on 3rd broke the on the hit and never tagged up. We appealed to 3rd and the umpire called her safe. And when he (the umpire) was leaving the field he said,"have a fun trip home". With a smirk on his face. Now the home plate umpire was around 80 years old and in a previous game had told me that from behind the plate he cannot see the bases, so I had no one to appeal to. The old umpire tried really hard and had a good strike zone for being half blind. But the field umpire did that to get off the field faster and then make sure he let me know. I never blame umpires for a loose and I am not now. He just screwed us over all day and made sure we knew it at the end. So shame on you for acting that way.

Other then that Lasers was a great tournament and our team had a great time.

Keep in mind that the umps worked ALOT of games. My dd umped and did 8 games on Sat and 6 on Sunday. She was one tired pup after Sat alone. I watched our 18U umps also and to work that many games is tough.

 

[default]

I can't imagine or understand why any ump would want to be out there for more than 3 games. Once fatigue sets in, you aren't doing any justice to the game.

Some guys are in it for the money and want to work as many games as humanly possible. I know guys that complain if they get fewer than three games in a day and don't feel it's worth their while to be out there to do just a couple of games.

The fatigue factor is huge once you get into multiple games. Physically and mentally drained umpires are much more prone to making poor decisions. But just as bad, sometimes when an umpire knows he has a lot of games to work, he will tend to "pace himself". So even for the first few games, when he should be his most fresh, he might show less hustle and movement in an attempt to preserve his energy.

Ideally, it would be great if you could rotate out to new umpires every couple of games. But the reality is this: Unless umpires work multiple games, you will not have enough umpires to cover all of the games. That's just the way it's going to be when tournaments accept 100+ teams and play hundreds of games.

The girls that play play more games in a weekend that the umps ump.

When the day comes where we can umpire 1/2 of each game from the comfort of a shaded dugout, then maybe that will be a valid comparison.

 

[default]

Some guys are in it for the money and want to work as many games as humanly possible. I know guys that complain if they get fewer than three games in a day and don't feel it's worth their while to be out there to do just a couple of games.

The fatigue factor is huge once you get into multiple games. Physically and mentally drained umpires are much more prone to making poor decisions. But just as bad, sometimes when an umpire knows he has a lot of games to work, he will tend to "pace himself". So even for the first few games, when he should be his most fresh, he might show less hustle and movement in an attempt to preserve his energy.

Ideally, it would be great if you could rotate out to new umpires every couple of games. But the reality is this: Unless umpires work multiple games, you will not have enough umpires to cover all of the games. That's just the way it's going to be when tournaments accept 100+ teams and play hundreds of games.




When the day comes where we can umpire 1/2 of each game from the comfort of a shaded dugout, then maybe that will be a valid comparison.

They need to have a EMT ready next time, some of those old codgers were sweating, and blood red in the face with stroke written all over them. How can you be effective in that state?

 

[default]

Some guys are in it for the money and want to work as many games as humanly possible. I know guys that complain if they get fewer than three games in a day and don't feel it's worth their while to be out there to do just a couple of games.

The fatigue factor is huge once you get into multiple games. Physically and mentally drained umpires are much more prone to making poor decisions. But just as bad, sometimes when an umpire knows he has a lot of games to work, he will tend to "pace himself". So even for the first few games, when he should be his most fresh, he might show less hustle and movement in an attempt to preserve his energy.

Ideally, it would be great if you could rotate out to new umpires every couple of games. But the reality is this: Unless umpires work multiple games, you will not have enough umpires to cover all of the games. That's just the way it's going to be when tournaments accept 100+ teams and play hundreds of games.




When the day comes where we can umpire 1/2 of each game from the comfort of a shaded dugout, then maybe that will be a valid comparison.

Bretman if you don't like umpiring then don't umpire, but if you don't stop don't complain about umpiring too many games....

 

[default]

Bretman if you don't like umpiring then don't umpire, but if you don't stop don't complain about umpiring too many games....

I'm not really sure how you get this ^^^^^ out of what I posted?

(Unless you're just trying to be controversial and ignored the main point of my post.)

What makes you think that I don't like umpiring? Where do you get that I was personally complaining about working too many games?

My point is that fatigue leads to sub-par decision making, reduces the amount of hustle an umpire has and that all can lead to poor officiating. It's a shame it has to be that way, but it's either that way or you find a way to run games without umpires. There simply aren't enough around to cover huge tournaments any other way.

By the way....however many games I work, nobody's holding a gun to my head to make me do it. Nobody can force you to umpire games you don't want to umpire. Any individual always has the option to turn down any request to work games if it's not something they are comfortable with.

 

[default]

Over all i thought the umpires at 12u that we had were above average and did a good job. But I did comment Friday about the same 2 umps doing 7 games in a row without a break. It was long for us as coaches and players with 4 games but we at least got breaks to chill and eat. I just think that many games leads to umps not being at their best and short fuses if problems arise.

 

[default]

I can only speak for the the umpires at Kennedy Park. We had maybe one "complaint" about the crew out there, and it was only about the strike zone being crazy, consistant, but crazy. Overall, I thought they did a great job.

 

[default]

A little perspective would be useful. I used to coach and have done my share of whining about umps. Walk a few miles in umpire shoes and the view sure changes. I have no dog in this fight, wasn't there and the name of the tournament means nothing. It's always the same.

IMO, EVERY coach should do some umpiring, at least for a season. It will make you a better coach and teach you something about talking to umpires. Sorry, coming out yelling "that wasn't even close" is NOT an effective method to get better calls or to understand the calls you get. Even better would be if all the parents did some umping as well. Barring all that, lets start with maybe reading the rule book. :lmao:

We all want the best umpires we can get. That said, I have heard so many experts in the stands the last few years of doing this that it's a shame more of them don't step up and share their expertise.

While there are certainly exceptions, here are a few generalities about umpiring.

1) We do not care in the least who wins or loses and have no agenda for or against a team.

2) The view changes considerably from the field vs from the dugout or the bleachers. Don't discount the fact you are VERY BIASED when you see a play because you are rooting for a certain team. Don't be so sure that YOUR eyes aren't lying to you.

3) You have to make a call. Sure, sounds easy enough but not so much in the moment sometimes. Balls and strikes, you have to decide pretty much right away. Yes, some get missed. Sometimes I'll think strike and BALL comes out. Just have to live with it. What happens when the ump hesitates on a ball/strike call? A huge groan and howl from one side of the diamond EVERY time. Should I stop and say... " on second thought, that probably was a ball, so let me change my call." You have a bit more time to digest what you see on base plays, but even then you just have a moment to replay it in your mind, process it and make the call.

4) Just like there is a long way between a 14U travel ball team (even an "elite" team) and Team USA, there is a long way between we very amateur umpires and working the MLB world series. Umps WILL get calls wrong. We don't do it on purpose, we make a call based on what we think we see.

5) Angle can be everything. What may look obvious from your view in the dugout might not looks so obvious from wherever the ump may be during the play. Being in the right position is no guarantee of having the best angle to see the play.

6) Some umpires are jerks and/or have overly large egos. Also generally unpleasant to work with.

7) #6 applies to some coaches in a larger percentage.

The moral to the story? Step back, take a breath, and relax. Do you feel the need to rip your shortstop to everyone in ear shot when she lets 3 balls go through her legs costing you the game? I certainly hope not. Did a missed call cost you the game? Maybe, but I sure like to think the law of averages is going to work out and sooner or later you will win a game because of a call.

As ol Sam Rutigliano used to say, there are 2 billion Chinese who couldn't care less who won in the game between the Xtreme Bulldog Pack Elite vs the Wild Barricuda Avengers Gold . And there's also 2 umpires watching who couldn't care less either. Passion is great, but in the end the sun will still come up tomorrow!

 

[default]

A little perspective would be useful. I used to coach and have done my share of whining about umps. Walk a few miles in umpire shoes and the view sure changes. I have no dog in this fight, wasn't there and the name of the tournament means nothing. It's always the same.

IMO, EVERY coach should do some umpiring, at least for a season. It will make you a better coach and teach you something about talking to umpires. Sorry, coming out yelling "that wasn't even close" is NOT an effective method to get better calls or to understand the calls you get. Even better would be if all the parents did some umping as well. Barring all that, lets start with maybe reading the rule book. :lmao:

We all want the best umpires we can get. That said, I have heard so many experts in the stands the last few years of doing this that it's a shame more of them don't step up and share their expertise.

While there are certainly exceptions, here are a few generalities about umpiring.

1) We do not care in the least who wins or loses and have no agenda for or against a team.

2) The view changes considerably from the field vs from the dugout or the bleachers. Don't discount the fact you are VERY BIASED when you see a play because you are rooting for a certain team. Don't be so sure that YOUR eyes aren't lying to you.

3) You have to make a call. Sure, sounds easy enough but not so much in the moment sometimes. Balls and strikes, you have to decide pretty much right away. Yes, some get missed. Sometimes I'll think strike and BALL comes out. Just have to live with it. What happens when the ump hesitates on a ball/strike call? A huge groan and howl from one side of the diamond EVERY time. Should I stop and say... " on second thought, that probably was a ball, so let me change my call." You have a bit more time to digest what you see on base plays, but even then you just have a moment to replay it in your mind, process it and make the call.

4) Just like there is a long way between a 14U travel ball team (even an "elite" team) and Team USA, there is a long way between we very amateur umpires and working the MLB world series. Umps WILL get calls wrong. We don't do it on purpose, we make a call based on what we think we see.

5) Angle can be everything. What may look obvious from your view in the dugout might not looks so obvious from wherever the ump may be during the play. Being in the right position is no guarantee of having the best angle to see the play.

6) Some umpires are jerks and/or have overly large egos. Also generally unpleasant to work with.

7) #6 applies to some coaches in a larger percentage.

The moral to the story? Step back, take a breath, and relax. Do you feel the need to rip your shortstop to everyone in ear shot when she lets 3 balls go through her legs costing you the game? I certainly hope not. Did a missed call cost you the game? Maybe, but I sure like to think the law of averages is going to work out and sooner or later you will win a game because of a call.

As ol Sam Rutigliano used to say, there are 2 billion Chinese who couldn't care less who won in the game between the Xtreme Bulldog Pack Elite vs the Wild Barricuda Avengers Gold . And there's also 2 umpires watching who couldn't care less either. Passion is great, but in the end the sun will still come up tomorrow!

Excellent post! I started umpiring when I was 14 and have definitely been on both sides. Actually had a team walk off the field on me when I was 15. I told the coach, "I don't care I still get my 3 bucks (plus hot dog and coke)!"

I just want to say, if you decide to get into umpiring or you are new at it, please resist the urge to call a play before it happens. I see so many umpires with their arm going up while the ball is still in flight - drives me nuts.

 

[default]

A little perspective would be useful. I used to coach and have done my share of whining about umps. Walk a few miles in umpire shoes and the view sure changes. I have no dog in this fight, wasn't there and the name of the tournament means nothing. It's always the same.

IMO, EVERY coach should do some umpiring, at least for a season. It will make you a better coach and teach you something about talking to umpires. Sorry, coming out yelling "that wasn't even close" is NOT an effective method to get better calls or to understand the calls you get. Even better would be if all the parents did some umping as well. Barring all that, lets start with maybe reading the rule book. :lmao:

We all want the best umpires we can get. That said, I have heard so many experts in the stands the last few years of doing this that it's a shame more of them don't step up and share their expertise.

While there are certainly exceptions, here are a few generalities about umpiring.

1) We do not care in the least who wins or loses and have no agenda for or against a team.

2) The view changes considerably from the field vs from the dugout or the bleachers. Don't discount the fact you are VERY BIASED when you see a play because you are rooting for a certain team. Don't be so sure that YOUR eyes aren't lying to you.

3) You have to make a call. Sure, sounds easy enough but not so much in the moment sometimes. Balls and strikes, you have to decide pretty much right away. Yes, some get missed. Sometimes I'll think strike and BALL comes out. Just have to live with it. What happens when the ump hesitates on a ball/strike call? A huge groan and howl from one side of the diamond EVERY time. Should I stop and say... " on second thought, that probably was a ball, so let me change my call." You have a bit more time to digest what you see on base plays, but even then you just have a moment to replay it in your mind, process it and make the call.

4) Just like there is a long way between a 14U travel ball team (even an "elite" team) and Team USA, there is a long way between we very amateur umpires and working the MLB world series. Umps WILL get calls wrong. We don't do it on purpose, we make a call based on what we think we see.

5) Angle can be everything. What may look obvious from your view in the dugout might not looks so obvious from wherever the ump may be during the play. Being in the right position is no guarantee of having the best angle to see the play.

6) Some umpires are jerks and/or have overly large egos. Also generally unpleasant to work with.

7) #6 applies to some coaches in a larger percentage.

The moral to the story? Step back, take a breath, and relax. Do you feel the need to rip your shortstop to everyone in ear shot when she lets 3 balls go through her legs costing you the game? I certainly hope not. Did a missed call cost you the game? Maybe, but I sure like to think the law of averages is going to work out and sooner or later you will win a game because of a call.

As ol Sam Rutigliano used to say, there are 2 billion Chinese who couldn't care less who won in the game between the Xtreme Bulldog Pack Elite vs the Wild Barricuda Avengers Gold . And there's also 2 umpires watching who couldn't care less either. Passion is great, but in the end the sun will still come up tomorrow!

Loving all of this.
As one of the umpires from this past weekend, I've been watching this thread with bated breath wondering when some coaches were going to pop off about the games I called. Fortunately I have been spared thus far. I concur 100% with what Exxwhy has posted. I have been umpiring for 4 years now. I promise you this, coaches & parents...when you start to work as an umpire, you ever see the game the same way again. Players, coaches and parents are watching the game from a participant's or spectator's point of view, which usually can lead to some bias. We umpire are watching the game from the umpire's perspective....Follow this play. A bomb is hit to right field, the runner rounds first with no collision with the 1B player....did she touch 1B? She is approaching 2B & SS is camped on the bag...here comes an opportunity where an obstruction might occur....does it happen? Did she touch the base? The throw comes into 3....was the fielder in the runner's path prior to the arrival of the ball? Did the runner alter her path more than 3' AFTER the ball was in possession of the fielder? Did the fielder make the tag before contact with the base was made? Is contact with the base still being made? Is there still a tag going on? All of this is going through an umpire's head while you are simply watching the throw, the runner, or worse yet....your daughter.
So, like Exxwhy & Hornet have posted....make the decision to become an ump. Learn how to watch this game from our perspective.
Let me warn you though....if you truly enjoy watching the game as a parent or participant....don't become an ump. You don't get that pleasure any more. You are now working.
I will say this....having umpired for 4 years, I have a working knowledge of the rules that I feel is at least as good if not more than any coach against whom I coach. I also feel this gives me an advantage in knowing how to deal with umpires at my team's games. Certainly doesn't hurt me to have this advantage.

 

[default]

I am not trying to be controversial. I really try to avoid that at all times. That is the trouble with forums in general. I see your point however, we will have to agree to disagree about this guy. You had to be there to see it. It was blatant and vindictive.

I'm not really sure how you get this ^^^^^ out of what I posted?

(Unless you're just trying to be controversial and ignored the main point of my post.)

What makes you think that I don't like umpiring? Where do you get that I was personally complaining about working too many games?

My point is that fatigue leads to sub-par decision making, reduces the amount of hustle an umpire has and that all can lead to poor officiating. It's a shame it has to be that way, but it's either that way or you find a way to run games without umpires. There simply aren't enough around to cover huge tournaments any other way.

By the way....however many games I work, nobody's holding a gun to my head to make me do it. Nobody can force you to umpire games you don't want to umpire. Any individual always has the option to turn down any request to work games if it's not something they are comfortable with.

 

[default]

This discussion is like a coin. There is always 2 sides and it is always going to be a topic. Every aspect of the game has good and bad.

1. Good Coaches, Bad Coaches
2. Good Umpires, Bad Umpires
3. Good Teams, Teams that are working on improving (I never say anything bad about players)
4. Good Parents, Parents that need by binoculars

ASA this weekend so See everyone on Monday... Good luck where ever you are playing or umpiring...

 

[default]

Like any large tourney 90% of the umpires are good. There are always those that stick out.
1. If you are in a hurry and disregard kids safety I have an issue. The laser field crew did a good job of handling those situations.
2. You are too lazy to get yourself in the correct position to make a correct call.
3. You argue with fans instead of paying attention to the game.
Just a few of my pet peeves. Everyone makes mistakes Our last game of the tourney my kid was probably safe at home and she was upset because it was a high tag. Heck I'm her dad and from my viewpoint she was out. I told her so and she was upset with me!

 

[default]

I am not trying to be controversial. I really try to avoid that at all times. That is the trouble with forums in general. I see your point however, we will have to agree to disagree about this guy. You had to be there to see it. It was blatant and vindictive.

Okay. But I don't really think we have anything to disagree about, because I wasn't commenting on any one particular umpire (whoever "that guy" is). My comments were geared toward umpiring in general.

It sounds like they went all out to find enough umpires to cover this event. I know that I was offered the chance to participate, but couldn't due to commitments to officiating another tournament. Maybe they had to go with some officials who were less experienced or not particularly suited to work high-level tournament ball just to ensure two umpires per game. To me, this begs the question if it is better to have one qualified umpire working a game versus one good one and one bad one, just for the sake of having two.

There are guys out there that I dread being assigned with because it seems like trouble always follows them out on the field. Usually, it's trouble of their own making. I'd really rather work solo than work with some of these "trouble magnets".

 

[default]

Okay. But I don't really think we have anything to disagree about, because I wasn't commenting on any one particular umpire (whoever "that guy" is). My comments were geared toward umpiring in general.

It sounds like they went all out to find enough umpires to cover this event. I know that I was offered the chance to participate, but couldn't due to commitments to officiating another tournament. Maybe they had to go with some officials who were less experienced or not particularly suited to work high-level tournament ball just to ensure two umpires per game. To me, this begs the question if it is better to have one qualified umpire working a game versus one good one and one bad one, just for the sake of having two.

There are guys out there that I dread being assigned with because it seems like trouble always follows them out on the field. Usually, it's trouble of their own making. I'd really rather work solo than work with some of these "trouble magnets".

Well I can tell you this: with one umpire leaving early on first is an automatic. Not so with two.

 

[default]

Lets hope there are not as many issues at Stingrays and GAPSS.