Hitting and Hitters Discussion Move up on the ball? Destroy a swing.

default

default

Member
One of the things that every coach should understand is that hitting is a timing process. It is hard enough for a hitting to just make solid contact with the ball. I often go to the ball park or my students will tell me ?My coach told me to move up in the batters box.? When that happens I cringe. Hitters spend hours trying to develop their timing with the ball. While I understand full well what the coach is trying to accomplish by moving the hitter up in the box. The end result will often be a lot less than their expectation from the hitter. The end result is often a strike out.

One of my new students had a bad weekend this past weekend. She went 0-8. This is not normal in any way for her. As I started to talk with her she told me that she was having timing issues and that the pitchers were slow. Then she told me her coach had her move to the front of the box. She had 8 at bats during the tournament? End result 5 strikeouts.
Coach if your team is facing a slower pitcher or your trying to ?Take the break? out of a pitch by moving the hitter forward in the box what your really doing is changing that timing for the hitters swing to something that they have not ever done when they practice. How many times have you told them to move forward in the box when they practice? Um that?s what I thought. So all those hours you spent teaching them how to hit just got thrown out the window like the baby with the bath water. You changed the timing of their swing by moving them forward. Then you wonder why your team didn?t hit during that whole game and you chew them out for it. When it was your fault they failed.

I teach my hitters that their front foot should be at the two back corners of the plate. From that point on I tell them do not move it from that starting position until you take your stride. This is how we practice this is what we do in the box. If a coach tells them to move up then I tell them do not go any further than the front of the plate. Yes, its that critical to their timing. You only have 4/10 tenths of a second to see the ball and react to it. Every milli second becomes important for the brain to process and react based on visual response, neurological response, and muscular response. This is what they are taught to do in what I call a deep learning process. It becomes ingrained in their timing. This is how you go from being a .200 hitter to a .700 hitter. Its all based on input and timing.

You move your hitter up in the box and they fail. Take a long look in the mirror coach. Its on you..
 
default

default

Member
I'm failing to see the correlation between moving up in the box, being 0-8, it being the coaches fault and destroying her swing.

-She needs help learning how to time pitchers, the being up in the box after 8 ABs is an excuse.

-I can't believe she can only hit or swing properly if she is exactly 39'6" away from the pitchers mound.

-Pitchers are like snowflakes lol no 2 are alike, strides, style, speed etc are all different I can't believe moving up or back a foot is going to destroy a swing. In fact I'd say anybody who has to be in one spot in the batters box to hit has a grooved swing.

But I'm not a paid hitting coach, I'd be interested in reading Lenski and the Lemmings thoughts on this, always willing to learn something new.
 
default

default

Member
Is it an excuse or is it the fact that her timing was changed by moving her up in the box? At release every pitcher is the same Uber. They may have all kinds of different pre motions but the one thing that is always consistent is the release point. Why do you think coaches always tell the hitter "watch her hip"? I never said she couldnt move I am just saying you move her too much and you will change the timing of the swing. I stated she could move up to the front of the plate.
 
default

default

Member
Not sure I understand how moving up or back in the box throws timing off any different than facing a pitcher throwing 3 pitches, one at 48, one at 52 and another at 43. Based on what you are saying, wouldn't every pitcher and every pitch have to be a consistent speed to now throw timing off. You can start your movement at release or wherever you've been trained, but the batter must be able to pick up the speed of the pitch as well as location.
 
default

default

Member
Yes pitchers release from the same area, but what I'm saying is this: You have a 5'7" leap a drag pitcher and a 5'1 leap and drag pitcher...they aren't going to be the same distance from the batter on release...so how do time those pitchers? Why can't you use your same timing ques in a different location in the box.
 
default

default

Member
Just remember that we teach the Barry Bonds drill trying to create that hitters DNA. And with that drill we are all over the cage sometimes if the kid is good enough 10 ft away from the pitching machine.

Once that DNA has been created back corner or front corner shouldent be really that big of a deal.

Movement of the stance in the box is not as important as knowing where the ball should be hit in my opinion, we know that right down the pipe we go off the front foot, inside were in front of the foot outside we are behind it.

Maybe teaching a continual spot for a stance enforces that. It seems to happen less and less as they get older so I havent seen it to be a huge issue at 16 and 18 by then the pitching speed is pretty constant

If movement in the box is bad the Barry bonds drill should then be called one of the worst hitting drills ever invented

Just some food for thought.


Tim
 
default

default

Member
I never considered the bonds drill to be for timing but more for the development of neurological reaction time. The longer I can wait and react the deeper I can let the ball get and the harder I can hit it. Bonds never moved in the box as I recall to adjust to a pitchers timing.
 
default

default

Member
Of course its for timing. It aslo may be for the reaction time but isnt that a part of timing..... reacting to the pitch you are following off the hip?. Bonds dosent have to move. There is not a pitcher in the major leagues that throws a 55 mile per hour fast ball that he would have to move up on it.

Cool topic though glad you posted it......... I was getting bored with no hitting talk lol


Tim
 
default

default

Member
Tim has Howard not been on here lately? I know I havent but I would expect him to still be posting on here.
 
default

default

Member
Moving 1 ft in the batters box should not affect timing any more than pitcher changing speeds 2 mph. If you can't cope with that much variation you can't hit. I would not recommend moving in the box after you start an at bat and see a pitch as you are losing timing information you gained at that distance, with that pitcher.

5 strike outs in 8 at bats is a sign that there is little or no bat coordination (i.e. the communication between what they are seeing and where they are swinging is not good) you can strike out with great mechanics but poor bat coordination and you can ground out with dribblers with great bat coordination and poor mechanics. I've seen kids go nearly an entire season only missing a ball completely when they swing about 5% of the time. Other kids (with poor bat coordination) can't understand why they strike out so much, while I wonder how they can ever hit a ball when sometimes they miss by a foot when they swing.

As far as practicing moving up in the box, it is a standard drill we used to use with pitching machines when they were younger to take 5 swings and move up 2 ft until they couldn't make contact or got within about 20 ft of the machine. Simulates changing pitch speeds without tinkering with the machine. We don't use pitching machines anymore but when I do front toss I move around more than a foot or two when delivering pitches to force the kids to work on different speeds.

No kid who strikes out 5 times in 8 at bats is on the road to being a .700 hitter without some significant work on connecting what there eyes see and their body is doing. I see way to many hitting coaches that focus soley on swing mechanics and then treat making contact with live pitching as something talent based as opposed to learnable.

I'll grant you that moving around in the box wasn't particuarly helpful, but there is no way it's as impactful as your supposing.
 
default

default

Member
Not sure I understand how moving up or back in the box throws timing off any different than facing a pitcher throwing 3 pitches, one at 48, one at 52 and another at 43. Based on what you are saying, wouldn't every pitcher and every pitch have to be a consistent speed to now throw timing off. You can start your movement at release or wherever you've been trained, but the batter must be able to pick up the speed of the pitch as well as location.

Your point is valid but if I remove one of those variables then wouldnt it make sense that I might have better success at the plate?
 
default

default

Member
The timing is different each time the pitcher throws a different speed or changes her delivery in any way. If anybody thinks that by standing in the same spot the timing will now be consistent then they may know a secret I don't know.
 
default

default

Member
I agree with Tim. We move in the box because we can and have trained to do so... I know the tradeoffs of this.

We have developed the DNA and part of it is making adjustments and quite honestly adjustments come in all directions, not just forwards and backwards. In and out from the plate as well.. Now, some kids just can't hit gas, or the rise, change-up, or whatever... maybe that age ol' adage that she just had a bad day occurred.
 
default

default

Member
Moving 1 ft in the batters box should not affect timing any more than pitcher changing speeds 2 mph. If you can't cope with that much variation you can't hit. I would not recommend moving in the box after you start an at bat and see a pitch as you are losing timing information you gained at that distance, with that pitcher.

5 strike outs in 8 at bats is a sign that there is little or no bat coordination (i.e. the communication between what they are seeing and where they are swinging is not good) you can strike out with great mechanics but poor bat coordination and you can ground out with dribblers with great bat coordination and poor mechanics. I've seen kids go nearly an entire season only missing a ball completely when they swing about 5% of the time. Other kids (with poor bat coordination) can't understand why they strike out so much, while I wonder how they can ever hit a ball when sometimes they miss by a foot when they swing.

As far as practicing moving up in the box, it is a standard drill we used to use with pitching machines when they were younger to take 5 swings and move up 2 ft until they couldn't make contact or got within about 20 ft of the machine. Simulates changing pitch speeds without tinkering with the machine. We don't use pitching machines anymore but when I do front toss I move around more than a foot or two when delivering pitches to force the kids to work on different speeds.

No kid who strikes out 5 times in 8 at bats is on the road to being a .700 hitter without some significant work on connecting what there eyes see and their body is doing. I see way to many hitting coaches that focus soley on swing mechanics and then treat making contact with live pitching as something talent based as opposed to learnable.

I'll grant you that moving around in the box wasn't particuarly helpful, but there is no way it's as impactful as your supposing.

I used my hitter who is relatively new to me as an instructor only as an example of what can happen. I am sure there were a number of other variables involved in her lack of success at the plate. I have seen this happen to one of my best hitters too. Who has been with me for 5 years. She did what her coach told her to do then failed. She realized how badly it screwed up her timing.
 
default

default

Member
Tim has Howard not been on here lately? I know I havent but I would expect him to still be posting on here.

Yup he still comes on. Im sure youll see the grand pubbas comments on this thread.

This is why I love these discussions. When I have a little one that I am teaching say 10 or 11 I do teach them to mark off the corner between the back and the front somewhere in the middle. That constant reinforcement will teach them the correct place to hit.

When I move them to the cage and do the drill they all tend to suffer a bit but after time and reps and practice they adjust and pretty soon they can adjust to hit the ball or at least make contact on the move.

So if I take what we have learned in the cage and off the tee it would seem to me that the same principal could be applied at the plate. Is it absolute?...... certainly not as all kids are different as their athletic abilities are also.

I think alot of this has to be based on the individual hitter and its up to the instructor or coach to identify this and act accordingly. Again love the post


Tim
 
default

default

Member
So true, have to KNOW your player and how they can adjust. Otherwise, you are setting them up for failure. Good points Tim!
 
default

default

Member
Interesting points.. Howard is 100% against moving in the box as a rule... he told me that the ball has to cross the plate and enter the HITTERs hitting zone - a well trained hitter will hit it when it does - low, high, inside, outside ... but, I do recall him starting to teach 'stepping' toward first with the back leg on outside pitches and making contact before foot is replanted ... hope he chimes in soon and blows me up on this!
 
default

default

Member
Interesting points.. Howard is 100% against moving in the box as a rule... he told me that the ball has to cross the plate and enter the HITTERs hitting zone - a well trained hitter will hit it when it does - low, high, inside, outside ... but, I do recall him starting to teach 'stepping' toward first with the back leg on outside pitches and making contact before foot is replanted ... hope he chimes in soon and blows me up on this!

He will he wouldent miss a chance to lambaste me on plate movement. Him and I have had these discussions many many times. Im still trying to take the pebble from the Masters hand lol


Tim
 

Similar threads

B
Replies
0
Views
471
Ball State University
B
S
Replies
0
Views
227
Sam Houston state - TX
S
Top