Hitting and Hitters Discussion Move up on the ball? Destroy a swing.

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Interesting points.. Howard is 100% against moving in the box as a rule... he told me that the ball has to cross the plate and enter the HITTERs hitting zone - a well trained hitter will hit it when it does - low, high, inside, outside ... but, I do recall him starting to teach 'stepping' toward first with the back leg on outside pitches and making contact before foot is replanted ... hope he chimes in soon and blows me up on this!

A thought........... the ball has to come into the hitters zone this is true. Then how do we hit the ball solidly with the bonds drill if it is not doing so? Wouldent the same principal apply at the plate?

Maybe movement can be somewhat of a determining factor. Also wind and weather at that time of the pitch. A ton of varriables. We will see what The great OZ has to say

 

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My thought on this..

I have kids that are better high or low ball hitters .. they just are .. so if a batter can move in the box to get her in a better position in relation to where the ball enters 'HER' hitting zone, she has an increased chance to strike it hard. As they girls get older, they see smarter pitchers that will read their adjustment and compensate.. at 10/12u most times a girl can get up on the plate on a pitcher throwing outside and the pitcher willl continue to hang the ball out there - not bust them inside. At last years Dayton Metro we played a very good team that liked to crowd the plate - we threw in on their hands all game, getting pop ups and weak grounders. They did not adjust their hitters at all - surprised me... I expected them to adjust and we would go outside, but they never did.

Lastly, break - I would think a kid with great spin would get better late movement on her stuff .. why not move up and take 2 feet off her balls break?

 

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Moving in the box is not the same as the Barry Bonds drill. The pitching machine cannot throw a change up or a rise ball, or move speeds. This drill teaches timing based on your reaction to distance from the machine. It is a timing drill. Now letting a good hitter move in the box that can handle it is different than a coach telling every single batter to move up in the box , because the pitcher is slow. That I have a problem with. Since my dd is a slapper she may be moving up in the box when she slaps or she may hit for power. She has to adjust her swing on every pitch. Have I moved kids up in the box as a coach, yes. If the pitcher is throwing a drop ball for a ball and the umpire is still calling it a strike. Then the umpire has determined that we are moving up in the box. In most cases it's not the pitcher but the umpire that determines what needs to be done. True story. My pitcher had 14K's in a high school game , because I had her throwing a rise ball and the coach that we were playing had every kid move up in the box to catch the rise ball before it went UP! She was convinced a rise ball went up. There are many coaches at there like this and at 16U I seen many doing this last year.

 

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My thought on this..

Lastly, break - I would think a kid with great spin would get better late movement on her stuff .. why not move up and take 2 feet off her balls break?

I don't think it is possible to have a late break, a ball is slowing down from the time it leaves the pitchers hand so how could it break late? It is going to start moving from release to the point it is caught, simple physics.

 

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I agree it cannot throw a change but your movement changes the speed of the pitch. Start swifty in her regular spot then move her 10 foot from the machine then move her back. It will be very close to what our hitters would see in change of speed.

The height of the ball will be different up close compared to back in her normal spot also. God I love this post lol

 

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Yes, we do it all the time, but she knows what to expect same as Britt, it won't be down by her knees as a drop ball, so in the Bonds drill the kids can cheat. You know it is going to get higher as you come closer and you know to start the elbow higher as the first move. When the Big Guy posts it will be based on the pitcher. If she can move the ball and change speeds she will own a hitter that moves. If she is not a good pitcher and only can throw a drop and fast ball , then you own her. We still move to bait the pitcher. Just like I have my pitcher throw an inside change up when I want to get a chuckle , never knew you could move that fast!

 

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I don't think it is possible to have a late break, a ball is slowing down from the time it leaves the pitchers hand so how could it break late? It is going to start moving from release to the point it is caught, simple physics.

The best way to dictate break is the ratio of spin relative to speed. If a pitcher throws a pitch at 45 mph with 19 rps, it will break later than the exact same speed and slower spin. Or a girl that throws 45 mph with an rps of 19 will break sooner than a girl throwing 48 with the same rps. My dd is starting to learn those concepts and locating where the batter is in the box.

 

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This is true. But is defiantly a ways to work those situations when live pitching cant be used. Although they know its coming they learn to react to it. Much like when we do the change up drill. They know its on the way but its a means to practice seeing something similar to what they will see at the plate.

I liked what you said earlier. About Blue forcing you up in the box I have had to do that before. Is it true to our Lemming teachings? No where close but it was the right call at the right moment

 

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The best way to dictate break is the ratio of spin relative to speed. If a pitcher throws a pitch at 45 mph with 19 rps, it will break later than the exact same speed and slower spin. Or a girl that throws 45 mph with an rps of 19 will break sooner than a girl throwing 48 with the same rps. My dd is starting to learn those concepts and locating where the batter is in the box.

Another quote I like. Pitchers pitching to where the batters stand in the box. A good pitcher will defiantly do that. And being at or about the back corner of the plate limits the pitchers ability to sneak something by. That i agree with but no one with the exception of a few kids I have seen would move to the front of the box on those type pitchers. The ones that batters move on are lucky to get it close enough to the plate in the front to be called a strike lol

 

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Quote from the big guy "I have never seen MLB or NPF players do this at their level so why does the high school coach think it is going to work? Moving up in the box. Tim will tell you we love to bait pitchers by moving in the box. Example we stand close to the plate hoping for them to throw a screw and when they are in motion move back . This is what I teach. Anyone watch Bustos and she was an expert at it.

 

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Yes, we do it all the time, but she knows what to expect same as Britt, it won't be down by her knees as a drop ball, so in the Bonds drill the kids can cheat. You know it is going to get higher as you come closer and you know to start the elbow higher as the first move. When the Big Guy posts it will be based on the pitcher. If she can move the ball and change speeds she will own a hitter that moves. If she is not a good pitcher and only can throw a drop and fast ball , then you own her. We still move to bait the pitcher. Just like I have my pitcher throw an inside change up when I want to get a chuckle , never knew you could move that fast!

Next time I,ll set in the dug out with you when you call those inside changes

 

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Quote from the big guy "I have never seen MLB or NPF players do this at their level so why does the high school coach think it is going to work? Moving up in the box.

Because NLB NPF pitchers do not struggle to get the ball to the plate lol

 

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Quote on Barry Bonds Drill "
I do not use pitching machines for batting practice I use the machines and or cages for timing and rhythm and swing plane adjustments. "

One of the things I started doing is using two machines set on two different speeds , and the hitter doesn't know which ball I'm going to feed to which machine. I think this helps kids adjust to speed and I love it for the change up drill.


I thought you were going to be on my lap if I wasn't careful! Did I catch a laugh from Britt on that pitch?

 

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That is correct. so they are practicing what we just discussed that is pretty much the same as moving up on the plate ............ different timings and swing planes, isnt that what you would see if you moved up?........keep this up I cant wait to see the posts once Oz has gotten on.

Im off to watch the dd play in ft wayne tonight. Yall enjoy and have a good one

Tim

 

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Start all the way in the back of the cage and move forward after each swing all the way to the front of the cage and when you reach the front of the cage or the ball is higher than your hands, then start going backwards. You are changing the speed of the ball and its height and creating your swing DNA or data base so your brain can quickly say in a game we have seen this speed and height of pitch before and we can hit it now because we can adjust. His quote.

Dana, Howard was on around noon today, but I think he and CB have a clinic this weekend in Erie Pa.

 

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Start all the way in the back of the cage and move forward after each swing all the way to the front of the cage and when you reach the front of the cage or the ball is higher than your hands, then start going backwards. You are changing the speed of the ball and its height and creating your swing DNA or data base so your brain can quickly say in a game we have seen this speed and height of pitch before and we can hit it now because we can adjust. His quote.

Dana, Howard was on around noon today, but I think he and CB have a clinic this weekend in Erie Pa.

When the kids start doing this, I know they get it. They have to be focused and disciplined to continue to make contact.

 

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I have a simple question do major leaguers move up in the box against Tim Wakefield or Phil Niekro?
Answer: No they don't.
If it was a useful tool they would do it.

 

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I have a simple question do major leaguers move up in the box against Tim Wakefield or Phil Niekro?
Answer: No they don't.
If it was a useful tool they would do it.

MLB hitters move in the box lol, especially against sliders. Using Neikro or Wakefield as examples is tough because of their command of the pitch, it's irrelevant where you stand. They move in,out, up and back. Their adjustments are much more subtle then a 12 year old girl's but they make them. They also don't announce what they did after the game.

 

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Just a thought, You here the players that have played in college say all the time that the best way to hit a rise ball is to move up in the box and catch it before it rises. I don't think you can compare softball with baseball with the motion of the pitcher or the path of the ball being so different. JMO

 

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Sorry to tell you a riseball doesn't rise! That is a different argument. The best Riseball hitter to play softball was Bustos and she did not move up in the box. The trouble with many of these older players they were told by coaches that it went up and still think that today. Now that we have video we can see what actully happens. The best riseball pitcher I have caught was Bill Hillhouse and you would swear it went up, unless you filmed it and watched it frame by frame.

In terms of a riseball. This post is now 7 pages long on this forum discussing this topic.

http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-pitching/7262-do-riseballs-rise-3q2011-edition.html