Pitching and Pitchers Discussion No they don't!!

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She doesn't realize that you are a trouble maker of epic proportions... :lmao:

See, she knows what she should be doing better than I do. Smart kid I have there...lol.

Your dd does indeed sound smart.

Troublemaker, or seeker of truth and justice......;&
lol

Len

 

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Crystlemc,
my DD was called for this same thing during the regional HS game at Kent State. The other team was complaining about it among other things due to they were getting beat. Needless to say they still lost but she was forced to follow their rule at the time. Pitching coach of hers was very upset they said anything.

Oh and as for "you won't get away with that in high school"......played in a BIG HS game and the other pitcher had a crow hop that was so obvious was never called. Also the pic of the pitcher from the photo company of the game showed it. Oh well.

Okay, I have to vent about this because it bugs the heck out of me every time it happens!

There is no such rule that states the pitcher must "present" the ball. NO SUCH RULE!! It never fails that, at least once per season, somebody gets it in there head that the pitcher has to show God and everybody, the ball before they pitch it. The pitching preliminaries state that the pitcher must approach the pitcher's plate with the ball in their hand or their glove, not both. Then the hands are brought together and they proceed to deliver the pitch. That's it. Nothing complicated. Nothing that says a pitcher has to "tip" the pitch by letting you see the ball, her hand, or her grip.

Let me illustrate. My DD approaches the rubber with the ball in her glove, her other hand at her side. She steps on the rubber and puts her hand in her glove. She moves the glove to her throwing side to adjust her grip in such a way as not to show it to the 3rd base coach. Then, she moves her glove, with the ball and her hand inside, to the front. The glove, with the ball and her hand inside, drop to her throwing side then push forward until she must separate in front of her during her arm circle.

Inevitably, someone gripes because she isn't "presenting" the ball.

Okay, rant over.

Please, before you scream that someone is doing something illegal, make sure you know the rule.

 

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Shark, I'm glad "C" still whooped up on them! Good for her for making that adjustment.

 

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It was after a 1-2-3 inning. I think it was actually a grandparent who called blue over and started raising a ruckus. Just one of those things that, as the parent of a pitcher, drives me batsh!t crazy...lol.

What tournament are you referring to? Haven't seen it called lately.

 

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It's been a long time since the pitching rules used the phrase about "presenting the ball". ASA and and high school removed this phrase from their rule books around the mid-1980's! The old requirements about holding the ball in front of the body (presenting it) were replaced by the pitching preliminaries we see today (hands separated, foot placement on the rubber, taking/simulating a signal, etc).

To the best of my knowledge, the only sanctioning body that still employs any sort of rule about presenting the ball is USSSA slow pitch softball.

Even though the rule about "presenting the ball" hasn't been around for about 25 years, not a season goes by where I don't get at least a few questions about this. It's just one of those many "rule myths" that get dredged up again and again. Maybe it survives because somebody's dad remembers it from when he played softball back in the day, or maybe it just sounds "official" so people that don't know the correct rules throw it in there to make it sound like they know what they're talking about.

 

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What tournament are you referring to? Haven't seen it called lately.

As I stated earlier, it wasn't called. It was just someone on the other side trying to get it called.

 

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I have a question for Bretman or anyone else that might know. What about the Slingshot pitch? Had the DD working on this last year. Tried to look up the rules for it but couldn't find what I was looking for. I know its legal but was told that you couldn't just throw it when you pleased. Either had to throw the windmill or the slingshot for the entire count to the batter. Couldn't mix it up during the count. Had some teams complain but others accepted it. After all of the headache we decided to scrap it. I could never find the official rule, but the DD was effective with it and would like to work on it this winter if its worth it. That is if you can mix it up. Thanks!

 

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Do believe you are correct. I can remember Kathy calling it quite often in the spano.

Kathy was still telling my dd to present the ball in her pitching hand last year @ Spano. Amy didn't argue because they have told her in the past that she's wrong.

 

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I have a question for Bretman or anyone else that might know. What about the Slingshot pitch? Had the DD working on this last year. Tried to look up the rules for it but couldn't find what I was looking for. I know its legal but was told that you couldn't just throw it when you pleased. Either had to throw the windmill or the slingshot for the entire count to the batter. Couldn't mix it up during the count. Had some teams complain but others accepted it. After all of the headache we decided to scrap it. I could never find the official rule, but the DD was effective with it and would like to work on it this winter if its worth it. That is if you can mix it up. Thanks!

It's perfectly legal to use either delivery at any time.

I don't really care if teams complain. Teams complain about a lot of stuff that has no merit. I'm more concerned about umpires getting the call right. I hope that your umpires weren't trying to enforce this!

 

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My dd has a change up that she releases on the upside of her arm circle. She has thrown it many times in games and it is very effective. Every time she throws it, the opposing fans go absolutely nuts, screaming illegal pitch. Every umpire we've had has agreed it is legal since she contines her pitch and finishes the arm circle instead of stopping on release...but it sure is fun to watch the parents have a coronary trying to convince blue it is illegal.

 

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Every umpire we've had has agreed it is legal since she contines her pitch and finishes the arm circle instead of stopping on release...

Actually, what you are describing would be an illegal pitch! The explanation you're getting is just about completely opposite of what the rule really says.

If she did "stop at release" there wouldn't be anyting illegal about that. There's no rule that says you must make a full circle with your arm. But there is a rule that says once the ball is released the pitcher may not make another revolution with the arm.

It can be a fine line on whether or not there was a full revolution (360 degrees) after the ball was released. The arm can continue up and around almost to the release point and the umpire might judge it not to have been a full revolution. Generally, if the arm comes all the way back to the hip, I wouldn't have a problem with an umpire calling this illegal.

By the way, the high school rule is even more restrictive. It says that after releasing the ball the arm may not continue rotating up past the shoulder.

 

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I must be explaining it wrong, about 9-10 umpires were watching her warm up at an ASA tournament and they loved it. They were saying that they were surprised more pitchers didn't use it in a game because it was a cool pitch. She throws it a couple times at every tournament and has never been called illegal and we show the blue and ask before most games and they always say there is nothing wrong with it.

 

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I'll have to take your word for it. Kind of hard for me to make a guess at what she's doing without actually seeing it. But the rules do address how the pitcher can continue her windup/arm revolution once the ball is released. Generally, it's illegal to simulate making another revolution once it leaves your hand.

 

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She only goes around once like a normal pitch, she just releases the ball with a back hand flip about when her arm is at her chest and finishes the motion to the hip.

 

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She only goes around once like a normal pitch, she just releases the ball with a back hand flip about when her arm is at her chest and finishes the motion to the hip.

Probably legal for ASA (since not a full revolution is made after the release). It could be borderline. It sounds like she must stopping rotation just a few degrees shy of a full revolution.

Definitely illegal for high school (since the arm rotates up past the shoulder after release).

 

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Bretman, I believe what Klump is describing is not the regular sling shot pitch but is what you describe. Although Klumps pitch is released imediately it is in deed the continuation of the circle that comes into play. Both of my dd's can throw this pitch and they do it joking around in warm ups or occasionally during their inter-team scrimmages. A rules interpreter once told me the that the pitch in question is illegal for these reasons (reasons differ with different governing bodies) 1. Making an additional arm circle after the release of the ball. 2. Using a second arm circle in an attempt to deceive. I was told that years ago.

 

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She doesn't make a second circle, just 1 complete circle from the start of the pitch to the end of the pitch. She starts from the hip, releases at the chest area, and finishes the circle to the hip. She doesn't 1. make an additional arm circle after the ball is released or 2. Use a second arm circle in an attempt to decieve. Her arm never goes around more than 1 complete time, she starts at the hip and finishes at the hip. Most definately illegal for high school ball but not for ASA.

If I were at all computer savvy, I'd tape her pitch and post it. Unfortunately, I'm a computer illiterate and don't have the first clue how to do that.

 

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Klump, they way it was told to me was that continuing her arm circle past the shoulder after the release is an attempt to deceive.

 

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We were told by the umpires who were watching her that it would be illegal IF she stopped her arm and didn't continue with the circle. I guess it depends on which umpire you have, which is why we always show them and ask before she uses it. Although like I said, not one has ever said it was illegal or called it as such.

 

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Klump that actually became a point of emphasis to our umpires from the rules interpeter and Umpire in chief about 7 years ago when he determined the attempt to deceive. If she would stop her arm immediately after the release that would be the normal sling shot pitch which is definitely legal.