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... Which, unfortunately, pretty much applies to anything from the Strike Zone to obscure rules in any given game.
Who's in favor of cloning Bretman?
... Which, unfortunately, pretty much applies to anything from the Strike Zone to obscure rules in any given game.
Who's in favor of cloning Bretman?
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Depends on his strikezone.........
And then it depends on if I'm pitching or batting..........
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It definately wouldn't be a sling shot if she stopped on release but it is too hard to explain without seeing it. I feel like banging my head against the wall though so I'm just going to let it go.
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Klump how about a clock? It sounds like she starts at 6, releases at 9 and continues to 5:30. Is that correct
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That's just totally wrong and has no true basis in the actual playing rules. In fact, it's pretty much the exact opposite of what the actual rule really is!
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Interesting thread. My daughter also does what Klump describes, but we've only used it in scrimmages or live pitching situations. Every umpire I've talked to will give you a different answer, and the ones that aren't sure have stated "Please don't use it, as I'm really not sure, but will call it illegal anyway". From what I've been able to interpret from the rule book, I don't see anything illegal about it. So for an umpire to not know, yet still prepared to call it illegal, is lame.
To Crystle's point, I've had the same objections from a very few umpires, but she is totally legal. Had one confront me between innings stating that "the ball has to be in the throwing hand." Not true.
To Crystle's point, I've had the same objections from a very few umpires, but she is totally legal. Had one confront me between innings stating that "the ball has to be in the throwing hand." Not true.
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Maybe you missed something?
ASA Rule 6-3-M: The pitcher shall not make another revolution after releasing the ball.
NFHS Rule 6-1-4e: The pitcher may not continue to wind up after taking the forward step or after the ball is released. Continuation of the wind up is considered any action that, after the release, causes the arm to continue to rotate past the shoulder.
NSA Rule 6-6-e: The pitcher may not use a continuous wind up after taking the forward step, which is simultaneous with the release of the ball.
USSSA Rule 6-G-5: The pitcher may not continue to wind up after taking the forward step or after the ball is released. Continuation of the wind up is considered any action that, after the ball is released, causes the arm to continue to rotate past the shoulder.
NCAA Rule 10-6-5: The pitcher may not make another arm revolution after releasing the ball.
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Thanks Bretman! You confirmed my thoughts. Couldn't find the rule anywhere. We decided to set it aside until the off-season so we could work on her accuracy with it. This is actually why we put it on hold. It would freeze batters but if it came in for a ball then whats the purpose. Just other teams claimed that we couldn't mix it up. I believed they were wrong and you verified it. On the other hand, know about the arm continuation thing that Klump speaks of. Now I do believe thats illegal. Sounds like a sling shot pitch followed by a full arm rotation. Am I correct on this type of pitch. Thanks!
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Lots of grey area open to interpretation. One at a time...
They're not making ANOTHER revolution. They're making 1 revolution. Actually, they're in the PROCESS of 1 revolution.
That's pretty definitive. In that context, I would say that it is illegal.
Haven't seen that one, but it looks as though it is illegal here as well.
Clearly illegal. "Continuation" of the wind-up makes it pretty concrete.
Again....ANOTHER suggests that you've already made one revolution. This isn't the case. You're releasing it in the process of the only (one) revolution that is being made. Whether the verbiage was intentionally made to be vague (hence, open to interpretation) or not is another issue.
Maybe you missed something?
ASA Rule 6-3-M: The pitcher shall not make another revolution after releasing the ball.
They're not making ANOTHER revolution. They're making 1 revolution. Actually, they're in the PROCESS of 1 revolution.
That's pretty definitive. In that context, I would say that it is illegal.
Haven't seen that one, but it looks as though it is illegal here as well.
Clearly illegal. "Continuation" of the wind-up makes it pretty concrete.
Again....ANOTHER suggests that you've already made one revolution. This isn't the case. You're releasing it in the process of the only (one) revolution that is being made. Whether the verbiage was intentionally made to be vague (hence, open to interpretation) or not is another issue.
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Scooter it looks like the only hope is the "another revolution debate". Remember, it doesn't say you can't make 2 revolutions, it states after release you can not make another revolution. You are trying to say she only makes 75% of a revolution after she releases. At some point her arm returns to her hip and / or I guess Good old Blue is rounding up! I think it is a cool pitch, but we gave up the battle to throw it years ago.
Bretman, is there a deception rule? I was told that at one time.
Bretman, is there a deception rule? I was told that at one time.
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No, there isn't. Whoever told you that was either misquoting or misinterpreting some rule in the rule book or just making stuff up.
If deceiving the batter was illegal, then pitchers could never change speeds, throw breaking pitches, hide the ball on their delivery or alter their arm motion or delivery point in anyway. There are plenty of ways that pitchers can be deceitful that are all perfectly legal!
There are probably some pitching rules that are in place to prevent the pitcher from deceiving batters, but the words "deceive" or "deception" aren't in the pitching rules and there isn't any sort of blanket "deceit" rule that can randomly be applied to any unusual situation the umpire doesn't like.
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Could it be considered a 'quick pitch' due to ball being released earlier than expected?
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No. A quick pitch has a specific definition under the rules. A quick pitch is a pitch delivered before the batter is fully set and ready in the batter's box.
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If I'm understanding this correctly, as she starts her drive forward & as she starts her windmill on the upswing she releases the ball & then continues the windmill after release. By rules, this is an illegal pitch. It's a very nice pitch tho.
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I think what is happening here is mixing rules from a modified pitch (ASA) and the classic windmill motion. Here is a link to ASA rules. Although they appear to be from 2006, nothing relevant to this discussion has changed. Carefully read the sections about the windmill delivery, then compare those rules to the section about modified delivery. I think the questions about the definition of a full arm circle will become irrelevant when you clearly separate the two motions.
http://www.azsoftball.org/misc/2006/Misc/05.softball.umpire.rulebook.pdf
Every pitcher from early in her career should have a solid understanding of the rules she must abide by. By doing so she can ignore all the idiots on the sidelines who are claiming she is pitching illegally. The preliminaries (hands separated, 1 to 10 seconds rule, etc.) should be a no brainer and automatic. If a pitcher is consciously thinking about those "automatic things" in games, she is less focused on hitting her spots and making effective pitches. I would suggest if anyone's DD is struggling to understand pitching rules, get another pitching coach! An educated pitcher is a confident pitcher, and will just laugh when someone says something like "present the ball".
There is probably a good reason why you rarely, if ever, see a pitching motion at the DI college level that varies from the classic windmill motion. That being said, if your DD has aspirations of playing in college, I would have her focus on a motion that will help her achieve that goal.
http://www.azsoftball.org/misc/2006/Misc/05.softball.umpire.rulebook.pdf
Every pitcher from early in her career should have a solid understanding of the rules she must abide by. By doing so she can ignore all the idiots on the sidelines who are claiming she is pitching illegally. The preliminaries (hands separated, 1 to 10 seconds rule, etc.) should be a no brainer and automatic. If a pitcher is consciously thinking about those "automatic things" in games, she is less focused on hitting her spots and making effective pitches. I would suggest if anyone's DD is struggling to understand pitching rules, get another pitching coach! An educated pitcher is a confident pitcher, and will just laugh when someone says something like "present the ball".
There is probably a good reason why you rarely, if ever, see a pitching motion at the DI college level that varies from the classic windmill motion. That being said, if your DD has aspirations of playing in college, I would have her focus on a motion that will help her achieve that goal.
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http://www.azsoftball.org/misc/2006/...e.rulebook.pdf
Pages 83 and 84. Still sounds legal to me.
Page 82, part D addresses Crystle's original point:
Pages 83 and 84. Still sounds legal to me.
Page 82, part D addresses Crystle's original point:
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*Sigh* Anyone ever feel like nobody is actually "hearing" what they are saying? I am saying that my DD knows, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that she is completely legal. And someone trying to get in her head is futile. When she knows she's right, she is unflappable. I am saying that it just annoys me when people who don't know a particular rule, try to have it called the way they think it should be, not how it really is.
There are many people on this board who have seen my DD pitch. They can tell you that she is 100% legal. Scooter7, being a former coach of hers, can attest to this. So please, don't worry that she is illegal. Don't worry that her PC doesn't know what he is doing. I can assure you, he most certainly does. Just worry that I might someday "flip sh!t" because of the same old garbage.
There are many people on this board who have seen my DD pitch. They can tell you that she is 100% legal. Scooter7, being a former coach of hers, can attest to this. So please, don't worry that she is illegal. Don't worry that her PC doesn't know what he is doing. I can assure you, he most certainly does. Just worry that I might someday "flip sh!t" because of the same old garbage.
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crystlemc, what age group does your dd pitch?
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14u
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