Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Out of line?

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I run into something at my DD JV game last night that I had never seen and wanted some other opinions on it. ?DD was forced into action to pitch the last inning because of an illness to our primary pitcher. ?DD is fairly new to pitching and has only thrown about 15 innings all year, but she helps out when needed. ?Her normal position is catcher and she knows from catching the previous innings that the home plate umpire is not calling a strike on the outside corner. ?She comes in to pitch and is working the inside and moving pitches towards the outside corner. ?Needless to say, probably from her inexperience in the circle and a tight strike zone, she walks a couple of batters.

This is where I think it gets weird. ?She works the next batter to a 2-2 count and the next pitch is called a ball. ?She doesn't really agree and pounds her glove. ?Home plate umpire calls time and walks to the circle. ?Our head coach walks out to see what the problem is. ?He comes back and I ask coach if the umpire gave her a warning on an illegal pitch. ?He says no, the umpire "didn't like the dirty looks she was giving him". ?The inning finishes, we are run-ruled and the teams shake hands.

Not fully believing (or wanting to believe) our coach's description of what the umpire said, I asked the umpire after the game if she had said something to question his calls. ?He confirms the "I didn't like the dirty looks" line. ?I told him I had never heard of anything like that from an umpire. ?He states "I'm not going to be shown up during the game, I don't take it officiating basketball and I'm certainly not going to take it from a softball player". ?I told him he would do well to grow a thicker skin and that he didn't understand teenage girls very well. ?I mentioned his remarks to the opposing coaches and they too had never heard an umpire ?issue a warning over "dirty looks". ?They thought he was warning her about quick pitches or illegal pitches.

Am I out of line or should the umpire have just called the game? ?I certainly do not have a problem with an umpire giving a warning if someone is verbally arguing, but I think this guy overstepped his authority with the "dirty look" warning.

 

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This is funny. He needs to find another profession or hobby if that gets under his skin. I'm sure OHSAA will be happy to have him aboard because he'll be sending a lot of $100 checks there way. :

 

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He obviously doesn't have kids! If a teenage girl giving you dirty looks bothers you that much, find another profession!

 

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Is there a new "eye rolling" rule in the rulebook now? If so, I think I'm in trouble and had better get some darker sunglasses.

Seriously, it isn't the smartest thing to do, showing up the ump, but people get frustrated not just at the ump but at themselves. Game officials should have thick skin for this kind of stuff.

 

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I guess it depends on how demonstrative she was, for me. Assuming she stopped short of flipping him the "you're #1" sign, I would think the Ump would give a little more leash in that situation? Didn't say anything or gesture, just dirty looks?!?

 

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Oh this guy would love me. What district was this in?

 

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That umpire sounds like a catcher I used to know. :'(
The umpire needs to chill out a bit. If I were the coach I would probably have gotten thrown out if I had found out he approached my pitcher in that tone. Not many umps have this issue but you will know quickly the ones that do. We had a lady ump 2 years ago that would go out to the mound every third pitch or so and give my dd pitching tips at 10u. Now that was wierd!

 

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That must have been some dirty look! Do you suppose he was afraid she was going to kick his butt?
...I'm not scared of those coaches, but that little girl out there scares the crap out of me.

 

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So, maybe a riseball down the pipe, "alligator arms" by the catcher was in order?

Oh, ... what would Bob Gibson, Roger Clemens or Pedro Martinez do?? ...

 

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So, maybe a riseball down the pipe, "alligator arms" by the catcher was in order? ?

Oh, ... what would Bob Gibson, Roger Clemens or Pedro Martinez do?? ... ?

It is funny you mention that, someone at work this morning told me the same thing about the "alligator arms" Would Clemens or Gibson had ever finished a game if an umpire didn't like the way they looked at him?

 

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The more advanced the level, the less a pitcher can get away with dirty looks or that type of thing. I do see the umpire's point (as dirty looks or a stare of more than just a quick second is a no-no from a pitcher), but I also agree the ump needed to relax here. It's a JV game with obviously a girl who is not really a pitcher.

If one of my varsity pitchers glared for more than a split second at an umpire over a call (or did it for a split second twice in a game), I'd be out to the circle explaining once again why that's a no-no. It is true and a part of the game that you don't show up the umpire. Similarly, a catcher doesn't hold a frame for more than a split second. Holding it for two seconds or something along those lines is showing up the umpire and a definite no-no. But it sounds like that showing up the umpire hardly applied in this instance.

 

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I've seen it done in travel ball, and it was in response to some pretty nasty looks. I think it's something coaches should not tolerate and need to deal with - for team attitude reasons and for the girl's own good. If a college coach sees a player giving an umpire a dirty look, it can make a difference in how they're considered.

 

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oh god, I need to let my daughter see this post. She has no chance!!!!

 

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Joe & SoftballMom I do agree that it needs to be addressed, I just take exception to the way it was addressed. If an umpire feels this way, call time and tell the coach you don't appreciate how the pitcher is acting. Let the coach take care of it. Personally, I don't think she was showing him up. I think she was more upset with herself for not hitting her marks.

I have told her as a catcher to make friends the the home plate umpire from the start of the game. Make casual small talk between innings and basically just make the umpire your best friend for 7 innings. Build up a professional relationship and make the game easy for them to call. I have taught her that in my past as a catcher or as a coach in doing this, if there is a pitch that is close you can just ask how far it missed and thank the umpire. Relay this info to your pitcher and go on.

You can attract more flies with honey than with vinegar.

 

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So, maybe a riseball down the pipe, "alligator arms" by the catcher was in order? ?

Oh, ... what would Bob Gibson, Roger Clemens or Pedro Martinez do?? ... ?

Funny you say that - I was told about similar happening at a college game a few weeks ago. Ump jumped the catcher unecessarily (she called time to conf with the pitcher and didn't wait to get his ok before heading to the mound) and the next inning she somehow mistook an inside fastball for an outside pitch.... oops!

I agree though, the umpire needs thicker skin.

 

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You can attract more flies with honey, but if you really want to attract flies, first get yourself a dead squirrel...

(Which has nothing to do with this topic- I just like saying that!)

We've all seen it before. A pitcher doesn't like the call and rolls her eyes. Maybe she glares in at the umpire. Maybe she throws her hands up in disgust.

Where do you draw the line? The first time it happens, I'm most likely not saying anything. But what if it continues? While not verbally "arguing", the pitcher is, in a way, arguing balls and strikes. Let the demonstrations continue unabated and they're likely to get worse. Things are likely to escalate. If the pitcher doesn't like the call, the catcher isn't going to like it, the coach isn't going to like it, the fans aren't going to like it...

There is a simple technique to nip this in the bud- and, at the same time, not make the umpire look like an overly-sensetive official that can't manage a game.

Here is what I would do, and have done on several occasions if the antics are getting out of hand:

- Call time and come around in front of the plate to sweep it in the normal manner (back facing pitcher, face facing the plate).

- Tell the catcher, in a low voice only she can hear, that she needs to talk to her pitcher. You can say something like, "Catch, if your pitcher wants to stay in this game she better tone it down. Those pitches are balls (high, low, outside, whatever) and if she gets it the strike zone she will get the call. I want you to go out to the mound and tell her to knock it off- NOW!".

This approach has never failed me. The umpire doesn't come off as looking confrontational, he maintains control of the game and there is no need to further anger the players or embarass them.

?

 

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Just have the catcher make the faces to the pitcher this way the umps behind her and can't see them.... ;D

Just had to Brett.....

Pitcher can't let the ump pull her off her game regardless of the calls. Even a little emotion can hurt her focus.

 

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It just today's very sensitive society. I got a phone call from the principal and the music teacher the other day because my 7 year old 1st grader was rolling his eyes at the teacher while she was talking to him!!! :

 

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I agreee with JoeA and softballmom that you can get away with it once in frustration, but twice, you should be payed a visit by either your own Head Coach or the Umpire. I also like Brettman's way of handling the issue at hand. I know if my DD tried to show up the umpire, the other team or coaches...I would rip her one after the game!!! JMHO though...lol.

 

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as the beer commercial goes " Brilliant" MD